Chuffnell Regis

[MrWolf]

Those are interesting pictures, the St. Erth signal looks as though the angled brace meets the main post at about 5ft from the ground, based upon the height of the platform.

[longchap]

4 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Not wishing to contradict you here, but one inch is 25.4mm exactly. So a 3" deep brick is 76.2mm, so I added just over 3/8" for the mortar course, rounding up to 3.4 inches, that being 86.36mm.

 

Let's not get started on clamp bricks of Elizabethan or Georgian origin though!

Ah, yes but no and my sincere apologies for my carelessness and confusion, as I put my 3'' in the wrong place! 75mm  is the overall height of a brick course including the 10mm mortar joint, the actual brick measuring just 65mm. 

 

Note to self: less haste, more speed!

[Neal Ball]

11 hours ago, Graham T said:

Evening all.  I need some help please with figuring out the door and window measurements for the station building.

 

 

Going by the time honoured "count the bricks" method, I think that the smaller two doors at each end of the view above are 24 bricks high.  Assuming a brick is 3" high, that would make the doors six feet high.  Does that sound right?  It seems a touch short to me.  Here's a zoomed in view:

 

 

The station was built in 1897, if that helps.  Obviously I'd like to get all the measurements right before I ask York Modelmaking to start up the lasers!

Morning Graham,

Have a look at Lcut before going down the bespoke route….. Im pretty sure they have the doors as stock items. All my doors and windows came from them. 
http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?page=pages/main&title=Main

 

[KNP]

51 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Morning Graham,

Have a look at Lcut before going down the bespoke route….. Im pretty sure they have the doors as stock items. All my doors and windows came from them. 
http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?page=pages/main&title=Main

 

 

Good products

 

Use them all the time, have a useful range of accessories as well.

 

 

[BWsTrains]

12 hours ago, Graham T said:

Evening all.  I need some help please with figuring out the door and window measurements for the station building.

 

 

Going by the time honoured "count the bricks" method, I think that the smaller two doors at each end of the view above are 24 bricks high.  Assuming a brick is 3" high, that would make the doors six feet high.  Does that sound right?  It seems a touch short to me.  Here's a zoomed in view:

 

 

The station was built in 1897, if that helps.  Obviously I'd like to get all the measurements right before I ask York Modelmaking to start up the lasers!

 

Which station might that be? It's a very fine example and a perfect prototype for me.

[Gopher]

17 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Which station might that be? It's a very fine example and a perfect prototype for me.

Looks like Rowden Mill in Herefordshire.  Preserved by the owners

[Andy Keane]

1 hour ago, KNP said:

 

Good products

 

Use them all the time, have a useful range of accessories as well.

 

 

They will also cut to your own drawings - all my buildings use LCut parts - great stuff.

[Graham T]

11 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

If the door itself is 6'6", the aperture in the brickwork is likely to be 6'9" or so, allowing for the frame. If you have 24 courses of 3" deep bricks, you also need to make allowance for the thickness of the mortar courses too, so if you multiply by 3.4" you should be about right when counting bricks.

 

10 hours ago, longchap said:

English bricks are 9" long x 4.5" wide x 3" tall, or in metric (which is so much easier for modelmaking), 215 x 102.5 x 65mm. Adding the mortar course makes the metric version 225 x 112.5 x 75mm and these are the sizes surveyors use for estimating dimensions from photos, by counting the bricks.

 

I stopped being a professional Brick Counter (QS) as Project Management was for more exciting, as lion taming is more exciting than accountancy! The bride was an Accountant, but now tames lions as a hobby.

 

Anyway, counting bricks is a reliable method in ascertaining building sizes for modelmaking, so enjoy.

 

 

 

10 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But, but, but. Were 19th century bricks all to one standard size? I've measured engineering brick structures that have 4 courses to 13 inches; trying to scale from photos and known dimensions I've come to a similar conclusion.

 

When the Midland Railway Board were grumbling about the mounting costs of Sir G.G. Scott's Midland Grand Hotel in the late 1860s, one issue was that Scott had specified Gripper's bricks, which were an unusual size and rather expensive... 

 

9 hours ago, longchap said:

As with most things in life, there were of course exceptions and when we look further back to before modern (19th C) times, there were complications in the mix, as other bricks sizes existed, generally due to the many manufacturers preferences over size. The sizes were normality smaller and bricks essentially made by hand, usually with simple moulds. 

 

It's an interesting subject, like all of history, but not NEC weary for modern brick counting modellers, unless you're representing something very much older and a bit special.  

 

8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

Not wishing to contradict you here, but one inch is 25.4mm exactly. So a 3" deep brick is 76.2mm, so I added just over 3/8" for the mortar course, rounding up to 3.4 inches, that being 86.36mm.

 

Let's not get started on clamp bricks of Elizabethan or Georgian origin though!

 

4 hours ago, longchap said:

Ah, yes but no and my sincere apologies for my carelessness and confusion, as I put my 3'' in the wrong place! 75mm  is the overall height of a brick course including the 10mm mortar joint, the actual brick measuring just 65mm. 

 

Note to self: less haste, more speed!

 

Blimey - I didn't expect bricks to generate quite so much discussion!  Thanks all for the contributions.  I know it might not be strictly accurate - but this is Chuffnell Regis after all, and in any case we already make lots of compromises with our hobby - so I'm going to work on the premise of a 3" height brick, thereby 1mm in modelling terms.  Trying to keep things as simple as I can for what is at times a somewhat addled brain, as you might have noticed...

[Graham T]

9 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Do you have any photos to work from?

 

I had a prowl online but without finding exactly what I was looking for, by then it was a bit late in the day to start hitting my reference books (because I know once I pick those up I'll be flicking through them for hours).

 

And then @BWsTrains came up with this one:

 

8 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Graham,

 

I've seen examples of both tall and quite short bracket sempahores on platforms. This poor snip from a video I took at Bishops Lydeard shows a rather tall version with the loco off to take on water to the right.

 

Then a very short example, picture easily found online is at St Erth with the siding to the left

 

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1554950

 

It can be what you think suits best; given visibility not an issue I imagine shorter rather than taller for ease of access.

 

 

 

Thanks for that - the bracket at St. Erth looks like what I'm after - cheers!

[Graham T]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Morning Graham,

Have a look at Lcut before going down the bespoke route….. Im pretty sure they have the doors as stock items. All my doors and windows came from them. 
http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?page=pages/main&title=Main

 

 

Thanks for that Neal (and others for the endorsements); but I already made a commitment to York Modelmaking so must stick to that.

[Neal Ball]

3 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

Thanks for that Neal (and others for the endorsements); but I already made a commitment to York Modelmaking so must stick to that.

Agreed. I didn’t realise you had already committed.

 

However the6 might stock standard GWR doors. If they do, you can  base your dimensions around them.

 

Good luck.

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, BWsTrains said:

 

Which station might that be? It's a very fine example and a perfect prototype for me.

 

It is indeed Rowden Mill in Herefordshire.  A lovely looking building and there are lots of photos of it online.  The owners were kind enough to send me a scan of an article about it in British Railway Journal; PM me if you'd like to see that.

[Neal Ball]

18 minutes ago, Graham T said:

 

Thanks for that Neal (and others for the endorsements); but I already made a commitment to York Modelmaking so must stick to that.

I see they have some standard doors, a small amount of compromise might be needed.  
 

The standard door at 28.5mm I reckon works out at just over 7ft.

 

https://yorkmodelrail.com/product-category/00-scale-ho-scale/doors-00-scale-ho-scale/

 

Good luck, it will be good to see it take shape.

 

Regards, Neal.

[Graham T]

I'm looking forward to building this, but so far I only have several sheets of card and some ridge tiles!

[Andy Keane]

Graham

I have a CAD tool that would quickly give you lots of dimensions if you had a single solid item in your photo you knew the length of.

happy to help

regards

Andy

[Nick C]

8 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Graham

I have a CAD tool that would quickly give you lots of dimensions if you had a single solid item in your photo you knew the length of.

happy to help

regards

Andy

Quite a few in Graham's photo - if it needs to be in the same plane, then the posters on the building should be 25"x40" (double royal) - although as they're modern copies, perhaps we shouldn't assume they are correct!

[Graham T]

13 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Graham

I have a CAD tool that would quickly give you lots of dimensions if you had a single solid item in your photo you knew the length of.

happy to help

regards

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, a very kind offer.  You timed it to perfection though, I've just finished counting bricks and sending off a document to York Modelmaking!

[Graham T]

Here are the results of the brick counting exercise.  The text boxes show the revised sizes I've asked for.

 

 

[Graham T]

 

God save the King.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Graham T

[5BarVT]

On 07/09/2022 at 21:59, Graham T said:

Or does this have the bay platform doll too close to the main post?  There is a longer bracket in the Ratio kit.

 

22 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Then a very short example, picture easily found online is at St Erth with the siding to the left

https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1554950

Ah, but . . .

St Erth is a junction signal so the left arm needs to be stepped lower than the right.  If it is two starting signals from separate lines, I think they need to be at the same height.  The longer bracket would give space for this.
Signals at St Erth need to be low so that they can be sighted under the footbridge and canopy (the Down Starting is equally short) which isn’t a requirement at CR.

Part of me worries that it should also be a T bracket for separate starting signals but I can’t be definitive either way (sorry).

Paul.

[Graham T]

Thanks very much to everyone who's chipped in with advice on this question, it's really appreciated.  Signal arms at same height?  Long or short bracket?  Length of signal post?  Maybe a T-bracket?  I decided to take the coward's way out and resort to PFE (prototype for everything).  So this is what I've come up with so far.  I can still shorten the main post if required of course - which I think it might be?  And I will most likely adjust the operating wire on the bay arm, as it's not quite right yet.

 

Would love to hear what others think.

 

 

 

This is from the Ratio kit, of course, with some very light tweaking.  The finials have been replaced with cast items, and I also drilled out the lenses in the spectacle plates (?), so that I can put in some Kristal Kleer and then tint it.  I put a short length of 1mm brass rod into the base of the signal post too, which then locates into a hole in the platform.  Makes things a little more sturdy.  I'll also add a pulley wheel for the cables, and some wire guardrails, but I'll leave those until I've finished with all the other bodging about, or I'll only break them...

Edited September 9, 2022 by Graham T

[Andy Keane]

22 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Thanks very much to everyone who's chipped in with advice on this question, it's really appreciated.  Signal arms at same height?  Long or short bracket?  Length of signal post?  Maybe a T-bracket?  I decided to take the coward's way out and resort to PFE (prototype for everything).  So this is what I've come up with so far.  I can still shorten the main post if required of course - which I think it might be?  And I will most likely adjust the operating wire on the bay arm, as it's not quite right yet.

 

Would love to hear what others think.

 

 

 

This is from the Ratio kit, of course, with some very light tweaking.  The finials have been replaced with cast items, and I also drilled out the lenses in the spectacle plates (?), so that I can put in some Kristal Kleer and then tint it.  I put a short length of 1mm brass rod into the base of the signal post too, which then locates into a hole in the platform.  Makes things a little more sturdy.  I'll also add a pulley wheel for the cables, and some wire guardrails, but I'll leave those until I've finished with all the other bodging about, or I'll only break them...

I would probably go a bit shorter. Maybe try just placing what you have on the board beyond the platform by the hut to see what it would look like at a lower height.

[Graham T]

Good idea Andy, thank you.  I'll give that a whirl tomorrow.

[BWsTrains]

3 hours ago, Graham T said:

Thanks very much to everyone who's chipped in with advice on this question, it's really appreciated.  Signal arms at same height?  Long or short bracket?  Length of signal post?  Maybe a T-bracket?  I decided to take the coward's way out and resort to PFE (prototype for everything).  So this is what I've come up with so far.  I can still shorten the main post if required of course - which I think it might be?  And I will most likely adjust the operating wire on the bay arm, as it's not quite right yet.

 

Would love to hear what others think.

 

 

 

This is from the Ratio kit, of course, with some very light tweaking.  The finials have been replaced with cast items, and I also drilled out the lenses in the spectacle plates (?), so that I can put in some Kristal Kleer and then tint it.  I put a short length of 1mm brass rod into the base of the signal post too, which then locates into a hole in the platform.  Makes things a little more sturdy.  I'll also add a pulley wheel for the cables, and some wire guardrails, but I'll leave those until I've finished with all the other bodging about, or I'll only break them...

 

Hi Graham,

 

I didn't pick up on this when you first posted about your bracket.

 

I have the mirror image situation in my setting with bay to right of main and when I posed the question about signal positioning I was advised to have two separate posts rather than the more expensive double bracket, GWR controlling costs etc.. This even when it required both to be placed to the right of the track being controlled.

 

We could imagine here that a single 16' semaphore to the left of the bay line might be obstructed by hedgerow growths, overhang the public road??? As you say PFE or perhaps they had a spare bracket construction ready to hand at the time? 

 

[Graham T]

I got the same advice about costs, but lots of other potential solutions as well.  I've gone for what seems to look right, albeit I still think it's a bit too tall.  That should be simple enough to change though (famous last words!)