Chuffnell Regis

[Graham T]

Thanks for the kind offer Neal, but there's actually nothing much to show you.  The issue is with the soldering, which just doesn't seem to be working today.  Which is strange, as I'm doing everything that Bill recommended, and haven't had any problems with soldering droppers to the new track I've been laying recently.

 

I haven't even got anywhere near to hooking up the auto reverse module yet!

 

Having put it to one side for a few hours, I've had an idea for a different line of attack.  I'll try cutting channels for the track feeds underneath the deck, and then solder to the underside of the rails.

 

[Graham T]

A bit of lateral thinking has been applied, and hopefully a cunning plan.  I couldn't get a connection to the rails on the top of the deck, so - why not try from underneath.  The table comes with sprung plungers to connect the rails through to the two brass rings under the base, which in turn connect to the auto reverse module (I think...)  Like this:

 

 

 

But because I've reduced the depth of the table deck I can't use the plungers like this, I've had to cut them short.  So now I just have the conical connecting points showing under the metal block, and they are flush at the top of the block.  Wires need to run from the top of those screws to each rail.  In this next pic you can see the holes for the plungers, offset differing distances from the spindle, so that they align with the concentric brass rings below.  And the wires somehow have to get from those holes to the rails.  You can just see the underside of one rail at the top left here.  Now some people might be able to solder through that hole, but I can't!  And you can't solder onto the underside of the rail and then connect it to the table deck, as it has to slide through the chairs.

 

 

 

So it was time for some more butchery.  A bit of careful hackery with a new scalpel blade got the bottom of the rails exposed, and a suitable gap to run some wire from the rails to the tops of the plungers.  The gap won't be visible from above, as I'll put the metal deck plates back on between the rails.

 

 

 

A few more brisk withdrawals form the profanity bank, and I had a connecting wire soldered to the top of the plunger and the underside of the rail, like this, seen from below and also above.

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see, the metal decking between the rails should hide most of the scars!  Now to tackle the second plunger...

Edited April 3, 2022 by Graham T

[Graham T]

A quick sitrep.  After some more bouts of profanity, and a distinct whiff of singed MDF, the plungers are both securely attached to the bottoms of the rails.  And there is power to the brass rings.  But when I sit the table in the well, no power is getting through to the rails.  So, I think that either the plungers aren't both making contact with the rings, or else there is a break in conductivity somewhere between the bottom of a plunger and the rail it's supposed to be linked to.  

 

Not sure how I can check the second issue - anyone got any suggestions please?

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Graham T

[MrWolf]

You need to do a continuity test across the end of the plunger to the rail, it looks like you have a continuity test position on that meter.

 

Easiest way is to connect a live to the rail, connect a lead with a bulb in circuit to your power return and touch the free end to the plunger. If the bulb lights you have a positive indication of a circuit.

[longchap]

Unfortunately, I can't figure out from the photos of the parts, exactly where and how the power flows. I presume that rail power comes from the rings via the plungers somehow, but like all kits, I still like to refer to the instructions to understand how it's supposed to work, in order to find out why it doesn't. Even without an electronic polarity changer, there is usually a default manual method, often involving split rings, such as the Peco TT system. Please say you have the instructions, which appear to be a download from Greenwood's website using the provided password. If the instructions are in fact unavailable, it sounds as if you probably have a frustrated contract and need to get serious with the manufacturer. 

 

Have you carried out continuity checks between rails and rings with the bridge in place? (Multimeter turned to 5 o'clock position, orange icon - it will beep if power flows)

 

Bill

 

Edit: well done Mr W

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by longchap

[Graham T]

And...   ... we have power to the rails!  I filed a tiny amount off the conical end of one of the plungers, and bingo.

 

However, I'm not going to pop the champagne corks just yet.  I don't know if the table will tilt slightly when I drive a loco onto it, which will of course then break the contact on one of the plungers.  I guess that's why they were sprung, but I'm not quite sure how I can get around that one.  Anyway, it might not even be problem!  He said, hopefully...

 

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Graham T

[GWR57xx]

The diode symbol position on the dial gives you an audible continuity tester.

[Graham T]

2 minutes ago, longchap said:

Unfortunately, I can't figure out from the photos of the parts, exactly where and how the power flows. I presume that rail power comes from the rings via the plungers somehow,  Yes that's correct

 

but like all kits, I still like to refer to the instructions to understand how it's supposed to work, in order to find out why it doesn't. Even without an electronic polarity changer, there is usually a default manual method, often involving split rings, such as the Peco TT system. Please say you have the instructions, which appear to be a download from Greenwood's website using the provided password.  I do have the instructions, but they are very basic and say nothing about how the plungers are actually supposed to make contact with the deck rails.  I emailed Mike Greenwood to ask him, but haven't had a reply.

 

 

[Graham T]

3 minutes ago, GWR57xx said:

The diode symbol position on the dial gives you an audible continuity tester.

 

Thanks (and also to Bill).  I didn't know that.  As you might have gathered, electrickery and me are a bit like oil and water...

[longchap]

1 minute ago, Graham T said:

 

I would package that all up to Trading Standards, requesting their help in getting Mr Greenwood's expert advice of how to get his kit to work, otherwise his kit is simply not fit for purpose.

 

In the meantime, hopefully we can get it working.

 

Bill

[Graham T]

Well I've modified it of course, which wouldn't help my case.  That being said, the instructions are woefully lacking, and the customer support has been very well documented by @Neal Ball over at Henley-on-T.

 

I'll just be content with getting the blasted thing to work

[Graham T]

And by the way, thanks again to all of you that have chipped in with helpful suggestions and support!

[Neal Ball]

4 hours ago, Graham T said:

Well I've modified it of course, which wouldn't help my case.  That being said, the instructions are woefully lacking, and the customer support has been very well documented by @Neal Ball over at Henley-on-T.

 

I'll just be content with getting the blasted thing to work

I went down the route of trading standards and frankly…. Got no where.

 

Similar to the guy that sells the TT who also isn’t interested.

 

At the moment, mine isn’t working, which hopefully I can resolve next week.

 

Good luck Graham.

[Graham T]

59 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

I went down the route of trading standards and frankly…. Got no where.

 

Similar to the guy that sells the TT who also isn’t interested.  He certainly doesn't seem to be, does he?

 

At the moment, mine isn’t working, which hopefully I can resolve next week.  Aagh!  

 

Good luck Graham.  Thanks, same to you.

 

[Graham T]

Well, after spending pretty much the whole weekend fettling, firtling, and generally b***ering about with the turntable, it will now rotate and remain powered through 360 degrees.  And the auto-reverse module seems to work - I've been able to drive the Mogul onto it, turn through 180 degrees, and drive off again.

 

I do still need to adjust the height of the approach track, as it's sitting a tad too high, but that is going to have to wait for another day.

[Gopher]

10 hours ago, Graham T said:

Well, after spending pretty much the whole weekend fettling, firtling, and generally b***ering about with the turntable, it will now rotate and remain powered through 360 degrees.  And the auto-reverse module seems to work - I've been able to drive the Mogul onto it, turn through 180 degrees, and drive off again.

 

I do still need to adjust the height of the approach track, as it's sitting a tad too high, but that is going to have to wait for another day.

Well done Graham.  Your perseverance has paid off.  It is a shame the supplier is not that helpful (or not at all helpful).  It looks like a great kit - but having read yours and Neal's problems I think I will stick with my Peco turntable.  

[Graham T]

Thanks Clive, it's almost there now!  Wishing I'd had space for a larger table though, then I could have just tweaked the appearance of the Peco one; that would have been a simpler job I think...

 

It is a shame, because the kit is nicely made and packaged.  But the instructions are not much use at all.  I've attached them here - someone important please let me know if I shouldn't have, and if so then I'll remove them.

 

GMRP_Turntable_Build.pdf

[longchap]

Thanks for the instructions Graham, which make a good teaching example of how not to do it. I can now see why you need to pay for the product before given the password for the alleged instructions, as many would simply pass on this product, due to lack of confidence in it. A pity that Mr Greenwood's vision is not a clear one.

 

However, your true grit has driven you through to a positive result. Well done.

 

Best,

 

Bill

[Graham T]

Just sheer bloody-mindedness and obstinacy on my part Bill

 

It is a shame about the instructions and so on, because it could be a really good product.

[Neal Ball]

23 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Just sheer bloody-mindedness and obstinacy on my part Bill

 

It is a shame about the instructions and so on, because it could be a really good product.

I needed to give you two ticks Graham…. Simply a supportive wasn’t enough (first line) but an agree tick for the second line!

 

Now what beggars belief is that there is nothing to show in the instructions how it should look - at any stage - nor anything that shows which way up it is!

 

I’ve found his Facebook page now…. There is still not an option for a Google review, but the FB page must be new. Someone has given him a 5 star review….

 

When mine is working again (I’m hoping it’s just a case of programming again), I will add a review on the FB page… if you are so inclined, feel free to do the same….

 

[Graham T]

He should take the time to produce a proper set of instructions for each turntable model, I think.  It would take a fair amount of effort I'd imagine, but in my opinion it would be time well spent on his part.

[MrWolf]

Having taken a look at those instructions and given that I was an engineer by profession, I have to say that they neither show much, or tell you much. 

It wouldn't be rocket science to produce something that showed the components in position, such as the screws which the components mount onto. 

 

An exploded diagram in the style of a vehicle parts book, or one of the flat pack furniture makers would be much more informative.

Airfix did a much better job with their turntable instructions sixty years ago.

 

Which is probably why, despite it being a static model, it has sold in the thousands and still sells. It's much easier to visualize how to motorise it too.

 

Some additional information on wiring and motorising even with the basic kit would be useful, so that the purchaser / builder doesn't paint himself into a corner, so to speak.

 

Better instructions would definitely improve Greenwood's sales and reputation. I think that a lot of these will get put on the "too hard" pile and given the price will remain a source of irritation.

 

It's not that difficult to draw, someone drew out the components in the first place.

[longchap]

40 minutes ago, Graham T said:

He should take the time to produce a proper set of instructions for each turntable model, I think.  It would take a fair amount of effort I'd imagine, but in my opinion it would be time well spent on his part.

It's really not that difficult, provided an experienced modeller has actually test built the kit from a basic comprehension of how it goes together, like the designer's notes and parts list. This is the way I've seen 'test builders' refine pre-production Airfix kits and they seem to know a thing about instructions!

 

I can only imagine why this was never done for the TT, but it will remain a serious obstruction to Greenwood Models' success.

Edited February 21, 2022 by longchap

[Graham T]

Hopefully he will take this on board.  It would be in his own best interests after all!

[Neal Ball]

17 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Hopefully he will take this on board.  It would be in his own best interests after all!

But sadly Graham, as we know to our cost, Mike Green doesn’t listen.

 

I suspect he will take a dim view of any negative reviews on Facebook and will probably bury his head in the sand. I will get the TT working first before I launch into him.