Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[APOLLO]

Here's my take on it all.

 

Family and self have complied with the rules, and will continue to do so. Wife and self had first jabs (AZ),

 

I'm retired so more or less business as usual (Garden, cars, model railway etc ). Son worked from home for a while, now away and back at work. Twin daughters at Uni both home and studying on line since this time last year. one going back Friday (to flat), the other continuing at home. Poor old Mrs has worked throughout, essential worker (food production) - never a day off. Bless her and everybody else who has soldiered on throughout all of this.

 

I'm getting fed up of the mixed messages coming from Government and media, and I suspect everyone else is also. Truth is no one really knows what is round the corner / what awaits us - new variants, surges in cases as lockdown eases, effectiveness of the various vaccines etc etc. The truth is very hard to determine.

 

So here are my personal rules going forward.

 

Continue with rule compliance re masks and distancing etc.

Have second jab (which are booked).

Not booking ANYTHING, hols, restaurants, NOTHING.

And NO WAY am I complying with any sort of Covid Passport. An affront to civil liberty. The vaccines either work (no passports required) or do not work (Then its back to lockdown - which will be the end of the UK). So sadly no pubs etc for me if a passport is needed.

 

I can see things getting ugly this summer - not me though I'll be working on my Railroad !!!!

 

Just a final point - Had a walk the other day with a mate of many years, we were discussing the current pandemic and what would have happened if this had occurred back in "our youth" early 70's - Well we would all have continued as normal, and not have thought much about it - more than likely nothing would have closed, easy to say but the death toll perhaps would have been very high - but again back then was another age !!!!

 

Best wishes to all.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

12 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Had my first one earlier this evening. Barely any noticeable side effects so far, although it sounds like it varies considerably from person to person.

 

From what I have heard from friends, it does indeed vary...but so do the symptoms from the virus, which are usually a lot worse.

It seems that people are expecting reactions but these are typically 1-2 days, not the 10 days which Covid inflicted on me (& a further week when I had no sense of taste).

I have heard of some bad Vaccine reactions on FB so I don't treat much of it as truth.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

The latest figures I saw show its been back on the increase again for the past few weeks, whether its a third wave or  a reoccurrence of the second wave depends on how you look at it, but very similar to what we experienced earlier in the year in the south

 

It seems we have been looking at different figures.

I have been looking at deaths. I have just checked infections & the 'second wave' for many places seems to have 2 peaks, so could be argued either way.

 

The first peak of deaths seems to be accompanied by a very small peak in infections. I believe this was a result of poor testing at the time, which is not intended as a criticism. (Testing was only available for the very sick when I had Covid, so the advice when I had it was to isolate & stay away from everyone until you felt better...which is what I did). We can therefore only guess at the figures for positive tests in spring 2020.

[john new]

7 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

From what I have heard from friends, it does indeed vary...but so do the symptoms from the virus, which are usually a lot worse.

It seems that people are expecting reactions but these are typically 1-2 days, not the 10 days which Covid inflicted on me (& a further week when I had no sense of taste).

I have heard of some bad Vaccine reactions on FB so I don't treat much of it as truth.

Of the 7 family members I know of from having the jab the ratio is 2 after problems to 5 OK. 

[Pete the Elaner]

1 minute ago, john new said:

Of the 7 family members I know of from having the jab the ratio is 2 after problems to 5 OK. 

How bad have the problems been?

From what I have heard from people I know directly, issues have been 1-2 days of feeling rough.

Maybe I am being foolish but I tend to take more notice of those I communicate with on this thread better than a distant un-named relative of a friend on FB.

[john new]

My sister (66) and one of my daughters (36), both migraine/flu like symptoms for about a day and a half. (Self, wife, elderly mother, 2nd daughter and bro-in-law all OK) Thinking about it it should actually be 2:(9)11 as I have just remembered that my wife's sister & husband (70 & 73) are also both no problem cases and they have now had both their jabs taking the jab total to 11. The others in the list one jab only so far.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by john new
Minor typo.

[LBRJ]

One thing that does give me a slight joy about my visit to the Vets tommorrow is that I have to change between Bus and Tram at some point.

The Optimum transfer point involves walking past into Maccy D

I dont care what anyone else ever says, but I reckon that a Bacon Double Cheeseburger is the best pence/calorie food that has been  invented

Edited April 6, 2021 by LBRJ

[john new]

5 minutes ago, LBRJ said:

One thing that does give me a slight joy about my visit to the Vets tommorrow is that I have to change between Bus and Tram at some point.

The Optimum transfer point involves walking past into Maccy D

I dont care what anyone else ever says, but I reckon that a Bacon Double Cheeseburger is the best pence/calorie food that has been  invented

Concur but ideally from a BK not a Maccy D.

[LBRJ]

3 minutes ago, john new said:

Concur but ideally from a BK not a Maccy D.

 

Strange to report that (apart from the railway station -  ££)  I dont know where there is a BK in Sheffield.....

 

[Rods_of_Revolution]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

Just a final point - Had a walk the other day with a mate of many years, we were discussing the current pandemic and what would have happened if this had occurred back in "our youth" early 70's - Well we would all have continued as normal, and not have thought much about it - more than likely nothing would have closed, easy to say but the death toll perhaps would have been very high - but again back then was another age !!!!

 

It's an interesting point. For a start far more people were dying in the 1970s than now, as yearly deaths have dropped quite consistently over the years. People also live much longer, so there are more elderly folks.

 

If you take the age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 population for each year from 1942 to today, the mortality rate for 2020 would be placed near the bottom at 68 out 79. If we were to use the 'worse-case' scenario numbers (no lockdown, NHS collapses, etc) and in 2020 500,000 were to have died of COVID-19, that would move 2020 to around 18 out 79. That shows how much lower the mortality rate is compared to past years.

 

So, how do the early 1970s compare to a 'worst-case' scenario COVID-19 year where 500,000 were to die? Well, the age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 for a 'worse-case' scenario 2020 would have been 1800-1900. The age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 for 1973? 1850 per 100,000. So in a 'worst-case' scenario 2020, the age-standardised mortality rate would have been about the same as 1973. The actual age-standardised mortality rate per 100,000 for 2020 was 1043, so much lower than a 'normal' year in the 1970s.

 

ONS Data here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/adhocs/12735annualdeathsandmortalityrates1938to2020provisional

 

I think people tend to under estimate just how many people die in a year. Each year around 0.8% of the population dies. In 2020 that increased to 0.92%. So for every 8 people who died of all causes, COVID-19 aside, there would have been 1 person who died of COVID-19.

 

Around 450 people die everyday of Cancer. Another 450 die of heart and circulatory diseases. That's each day before the pandemic and each day after. Both of those causes of death can be reduced through simple things like a healthy diet and excercise. Diet and excercise will also reduce the chance of dying of COVID-19. But rather then do something as simple as cutting down on biscuits and cakes, and taking a brisk walk each day, it seems people rather sacrifice their entire way of life, lock themselves in their homes and miss out on spending precious time with their families.

 

Fear of death and people's attitude towards it, are fascinating indeed.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Rods_of_Revolution

[Neil]

7 hours ago, APOLLO said:

.... And NO WAY am I complying with any sort of Covid Passport. An affront to civil liberty. ......

 

I don't have a problem with the concept of Covid passport. No vaccine is 100% effective so even when I and my family and friends have had our second doses we would still have some vulnerability. I'd like to think that if I or they were in a confined space with others we wouldn't be sharing that space with irresponsible anti-vaxers. One of my 'friends' shows a great deal of idiocy in this regard.

 

I don't see a civil liberty angle to the notion of a Covid Passport, we carried all sorts of passes and permits with us before life in lockdown. Young people carried ID for pubs and clubs, I have a photo to ID me on my bus pass and driving licence, I hold a passport for international travel, bits of plastic in my wallet allow me to buy things and get money without signatures and my phone seems to know where I am at all times. We're happy to accept all these things and don't consider them to be an infringement of our civil liberties as they make life safer, more secure and easier for us which is what a Covid passport is designed to do.

[Hobby]

9 hours ago, APOLLO said:

I'm getting fed up of the mixed messages coming from Government and media,

 

I'll be controversial here, at the beginning they were learning the way, which I feel took longer in this country than some others, so the messages were, at time, certainly "mixed", but over the last few months the Gov's message has been pretty consistent. My issue is with the Media (TV, newspapers, etc.), Social Media and some attention seeking politicians who feel it necessary to question everything the Gov says and does, even when what they say is Common Sense. In addition these same people then go on to micro analyse everything and come up with issues that will just not exist in Real Life. I know all about the Free Press and fully support it, but it's from them we've been getting the mixed messages, some newspapers wanting us to stop coming out of lockdown "so fast" (whatever that is!) and some the opposite, none of them, however, seemingly wanting to take the centre line.

 

My view is that any "confusion" or "mixed messages" are coming from the Media and Social Media.

 

9 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

How bad have the problems been?

From what I have heard from people I know directly, issues have been 1-2 days of feeling rough.

Maybe I am being foolish but I tend to take more notice of those I communicate with on this thread better than a distant un-named relative of a friend on FB.

 

As the others have said it depends on the person and the type of vaccine, just get it done, it's easier than worrying about it!!

Edited April 7, 2021 by Hobby

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, APOLLO said:

Here's my take on it all.

 

Family and self have complied with the rules, and will continue to do so. Wife and self had first jabs (AZ),

 

I'm retired so more or less business as usual (Garden, cars, model railway etc ). Son worked from home for a while, now away and back at work. Twin daughters at Uni both home and studying on line since this time last year. one going back Friday (to flat), the other continuing at home. Poor old Mrs has worked throughout, essential worker (food production) - never a day off. Bless her and everybody else who has soldiered on throughout all of this.

 

I'm getting fed up of the mixed messages coming from Government and media, and I suspect everyone else is also. Truth is no one really knows what is round the corner / what awaits us - new variants, surges in cases as lockdown eases, effectiveness of the various vaccines etc etc. The truth is very hard to determine.

 

So here are my personal rules going forward.

 

Continue with rule compliance re masks and distancing etc.

Have second jab (which are booked).

Not booking ANYTHING, hols, restaurants, NOTHING.

And NO WAY am I complying with any sort of Covid Passport. An affront to civil liberty. The vaccines either work (no passports required) or do not work (Then its back to lockdown - which will be the end of the UK). So sadly no pubs etc for me if a passport is needed.

 

I can see things getting ugly this summer - not me though I'll be working on my Railroad !!!!

 

Just a final point - Had a walk the other day with a mate of many years, we were discussing the current pandemic and what would have happened if this had occurred back in "our youth" early 70's - Well we would all have continued as normal, and not have thought much about it - more than likely nothing would have closed, easy to say but the death toll perhaps would have been very high - but again back then was another age !!!!

 

Best wishes to all.

 

Brit15

 

 

 

 

 

I think most people I know broadly agree with you and have kept as best as they could to the rules to date

 

My wife is desperate to see her parents, who are in their 90's and share a property with the wife's sister and husband. We plan to visit them in their garden ASAP and as soon as possible have them to come up and stay for a few weeks to give them and the in-laws a break. Like wise my sister who is in her seventies, as she wants to see her nieces and nephews.

 

We have booked a holiday in September along with my wife's parents, very important as my farther in law has early stage dementor

 

As for going to the pub, once the queues have died down I will support some local venues, who themselves have been a great support to those in need in the village. If that means getting a covid passport, then so be it. I do not see it as any imposition or discrimination. It is designed like my driving licence to protect others and myself. So many have given so much to getting us to where we are, I believe its not too much to ask, that is providing steps are taken to include those who cannot be vaccinated for valid reasons.  I have no issues with others deciding to to take part, but don't stop others who wish to comply. Nothing to do with an affront to liberty, just a practical step back to normality.

 

The real affront to our liberty has been by those who willingly failed to follow the guidelines, making the effects of the pandemic far worse than they should/could have been.   

[Oldddudders]

9 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

How bad have the problems been?

From what I have heard from people I know directly, issues have been 1-2 days of feeling rough.

Maybe I am being foolish but I tend to take more notice of those I communicate with on this thread better than a distant un-named relative of a friend on FB.

Sherry (Ashcombe on RMweb) had a couple of days of mild headaches and feeling one-degree-under following her initial AZ jab. Considerably nicer than even mild Covid, by all accounts. 

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

It seems we have been looking at different figures.

I have been looking at deaths. I have just checked infections & the 'second wave' for many places seems to have 2 peaks, so could be argued either way.

 

The first peak of deaths seems to be accompanied by a very small peak in infections. I believe this was a result of poor testing at the time, which is not intended as a criticism. (Testing was only available for the very sick when I had Covid, so the advice when I had it was to isolate & stay away from everyone until you felt better...which is what I did). We can therefore only guess at the figures for positive tests in spring 2020.

 

I think initially stated deaths not infections, so I may have confused matters, lets hope it does not follow the usual route, being increased hospitalisations, then increased deaths 

[deepfat]

I had take 2 of the AZ one yesterday and just a bit of an achy arm so far.  1st one did give me a sort of flu for 24 hours, but small price to pay to do ones bit

[AY Mod]

17 minutes ago, hayfield said:

I believe its not too much to ask,

 

100% this.

 

I'll be out and about soon for work (I sincerely hope) and would happily use such a tool to demonstrate that I'm considering the well-being of those who I'll be visiting. Until we've got a useful tool I'll happily take the home lateral flow test before visiting anyone and advise that I've done so - it's just another layer of protection (albeit not foolproof). I view it simply as a way of looking after others, myself and ultimately everyone in demonstrable form if needed.

[Dunsignalling]

25 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Sherry (Ashcombe on RMweb) had a couple of days of mild headaches and feeling one-degree-under following her initial AZ jab. Considerably nicer than even mild Covid, by all accounts. 

I had exactly the same. Had OAZ jab at 1045. Headache and tiredness kicked in after about 3 hrs. Headache responded to Paracetemol (half max dose) but tiredness persisted through the following day. Fully back to normal the next morning.

 

No big deal at all. Don't be put off.

 

John

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Neil said:

 

I don't have a problem with the concept of Covid passport. No vaccine is 100% effective so even when I and my family and friends have had our second doses we would still have some vulnerability. I'd like to think that if I or they were in a confined space with others we wouldn't be sharing that space with irresponsible anti-vaxers. One of my 'friends' shows a great deal of idiocy in this regard.

 

I don't see a civil liberty angle to the notion of a Covid Passport, we carried all sorts of passes and permits with us before life in lockdown. Young people carried ID for pubs and clubs, I have a photo to ID me on my bus pass and driving licence, I hold a passport for international travel, bits of plastic in my wallet allow me to buy things and get money without signatures and my phone seems to know where I am at all times. We're happy to accept all these things and don't consider them to be an infringement of our civil liberties as they make life safer, more secure and easier for us which is what a Covid passport is designed to do.

Scary.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

 

 

My view is that any "confusion" or "mixed messages" are coming from the Media and Social Media.

 

 

 

This especially.......everyone jumps on the “mixed/confused messaging by the Government” but I haven’t found that, the only thing I notice is the media telling us that the government are giving mixed messages.

[boxbrownie]

13 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

RMweb is not the place for conspiracies. Move along.

Awww why did you delete it Andy, I got the email notification of his post and it was a one line teaser, I really wanted to read the absolute guff and crap he had in store for us, this thread needs some light hearted bullpoop occasionally, and what better than from a deluded 5 years old.

[hayfield]

16 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

100% this.

 

I'll be out and about soon for work (I sincerely hope) and would happily use such a tool to demonstrate that I'm considering the well-being of those who I'll be visiting. Until we've got a useful tool I'll happily take the home lateral flow test before visiting anyone and advise that I've done so - it's just another layer of protection (albeit not foolproof). I view it simply as a way of looking after others, myself and ultimately everyone in demonstrable form if needed.

 

Most of us had acted to keep both ourselves and others safe, being vaccinated does not give us and others immunity, we might catch a mild infection, or be contagious to others, but as you say life must go on, especially getting all back to work. An app on the phone or a doctors certificate is a small price to pay to get things moving.

 

I cannot wait to have a nice quiet pub lunch, in or out doors, but after the rush is over

[hayfield]

8 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

This especially.......everyone jumps on the “mixed/confused messaging by the Government” but I haven’t found that, the only thing I notice is the media telling us that the government are giving mixed messages.

 

Its funny those who comply with the rules either don't see it as mixed messaging or just a case of a fast moving set of circumstances. Many have in retrospect made many false accusations. The government whilst slow on somethings were in others running at break neck speed. And those governments who initially were held up as good examples of what t do also have been found to be no where as good as the initial impressions gave

[Dunsignalling]

Covid "passports", my take:

 

Whatever your political view of the principle, I think something like it will be unavoidable if we want to return to many of the activities we previously enjoyed within a reasonable timescale.

 

International travel is going to cease without one, whatever Parliament thinks or does about it. That is going to last years rather than months, and for some destinations is likely to be permanent, so sticking to ones principles or prejudices will have a personal cost.

 

Nightclubs, pubs, restaurants and yes, model railway shows may be permitted to resume activities but are arguably non-viable if social distancing requirements  remain at current levels. Covid passports might allow a relaxation of that within premises that enforce them rather sooner than will otherwise be the case.

 

If so, it's a price I'll be more than willing to pay.

 

John

Edited April 7, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[boxbrownie]

10 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

From what I have heard from friends, it does indeed vary...but so do the symptoms from the virus, which are usually a lot worse.

It seems that people are expecting reactions but these are typically 1-2 days, not the 10 days which Covid inflicted on me (& a further week when I had no sense of taste).

I have heard of some bad Vaccine reactions on FB so I don't treat much of it as truth.

We found out just yesterday my BiL and wife had C-19 back in January and although they got through it without too much hardship (apparently like a very bad case of flu, and BIL also said it was like every little injury he has had over the years came back and hurt!)....he is over it now and back to rebuilding their house, where as his wife who is a teacher has had serious memory issues, and has complete “black outs” of some events in the past, very odd and very worrying, and not a symptom I had heard of before.