Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[Fat Controller]

17 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

An RMwebber called Fat Controller works for something called Eurotunnel. He could tell you the huge volume of people and lorries on trains that daily passed through the Channel Tunnel prior to Covid. I believe the numbers are quite impressive. Add in the ferries, including other routes from Plymouth, Portsmouth etc, and the Channel looks rather unimportant in limiting travel. And we haven't even mentioned air......

I'm now retired, but before Brexit and Covid, there was an average of about 6000 lorries per day via the tunnel, and slightly more using the ferries (who carry unaccompanied trailers and 'dangerous goods', not carried by ET) Car numbers were probably 10000/day during summer peaks. I used to work in France most days, along with quite a few colleagues.

[APOLLO]

The UK's situation has been well discussed.

 

Australia and nearby New Zealand are, in world terms, located at the back of the beyond. A long way from anywhere, not quick to get to and not very friendly to illegal immigration also. The warm countries to the north (Thaiand especially) also locked down tightly. So with travel in & out virtually non existent this past year they have controlled the virus well. However going forward and opening up are also massive problems as most / all  Aussies / Kiwis will need to be vaccinated or its day one all over again.

 

The opposite will occur with the UK, hopefully later this year when most are jabbed perhaps we can open up more - but will other countries struggling with vaccinations allow us in ?

 

Many questions, few answers. I think the days of unfettered international travel have gone for good.

 

Brit15

[boxbrownie]

21 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I'm crossing my fingers that that's the result of a huge number of additional tests being done picking up more rather than cases really not dropping. That the number of tests has risen by 70% and detected cases hasn't increased is quite reassuring really.

Possibly the extra testing of school children?

 

As I mentioned earlier, my grand daughter’s pre school went back three weeks ago and in the past two weeks there have been two families reported with family members positive and the school is now closed and working home schooling again.

[Neil]

45 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

My daughter is a local authority worker, like many in both the private and public sector have done this for years. Not every employee is a clock watching miser.

 

Having said this I think all the NHS should at least receive a substantial one off bunus and or additional holidays. 

 

You're quite right, unpaid overtime has been endemic in the NHS for a long while but it seems to be coming to a head now. I prefer to think of things in terms of fair pay for hours worked and that to expect that isn't to be a clock watching miser.

 

Here in Wales it has been reported that NHS and care workers are to be paid a bonus of £735 which means that most will take home £500 (tax and NI deductions). I think this is a good move as it disproportionately benefits those on the lowest wages (they are usually disproportionately disadvantaged with percentage increases) and includes care workers in the settlement.

[lapford34102]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

What I would say is you are coming over very aggressively, please keep it friendly

Not sure aggressive, possibly more of the Devil's Advocate and maybe stems from a misunderstanding of our position vis-a-vis Europe.

Perhaps this will help. Anything similar in Aus ?

 

Lorries waiting at Manston so that drivers could be tested before crossing the Channel, probably a days worth there.

Hopefully Brian (Fat Controller) will pop along with a few figures at some point.

Stu

Edited March 19, 2021 by lapford34102
Forgot something!

[hayfield]

36 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Hopefully it's just because we were one of the first out of the blocks. Look how rapidly it's got going in the UK. But a lot of the preparation for that was somewhat out of sight of most people. With the UK and a few other countries out in the lead now that preparation elsewhere is suddenly getting a lot more attention, but fingers crossed that that's just because it's a little behind rather than fundamentally flawed.

 

I think its a little more complicated than this,  The plan in government was simple. We need a professional to get us out of this plus we need to back them.

Looking back, the plan was simple and joined up from start to finish. But getting us from start to finish was anything but simple. However by the time the Oxford vaccine had been authorised for use, everything was in place, tested and working

 

The good fortune we had at the start was our research establishments, the ingenuity of our technicians (McLaren a prime example with the ventilators) the logistics our armed forces could provide, having a truly national health service and finally the the number of ordinary folk who were willing to help

 

 

31 minutes ago, Reorte said:

I'm crossing my fingers that that's the result of a huge number of additional tests being done picking up more rather than cases really not dropping. That the number of tests has risen by 70% and detected cases hasn't increased is quite reassuring really.

 

We were told right from the start that testing was a keystone of getting back to normal, as you say rather than confirming the virus its now hunting for it. We are told it will be with us for some time so it will flare up in places every now and then. Schools are now being affected, but unlike before there is more testing and hopefully learnt the errors from last winter.

 

Infections in those who can handle it whilst not desirable is easier to handle, its those having to go to hospital which is the main worry from what I can understand. At the moment in most places it looks good, but as those who get infected reduce it becomes harder to detect

[hayfield]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

You're quite right, unpaid overtime has been endemic in the NHS for a long while but it seems to be coming to a head now. I prefer to think of things in terms of fair pay for hours worked and that to expect that isn't to be a clock watching miser.

 

Here in Wales it has been reported that NHS and care workers are to be paid a bonus of £735 which means that most will take home £500 (tax and NI deductions). I think this is a good move as it disproportionately benefits those on the lowest wages (they are usually disproportionately disadvantaged with percentage increases) and includes care workers in the settlement.

 

 

Well done the Welch assembly, I thought the Assembly were covering the tax & Ni, but I could be mistaken

[AY Mod]

40 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The UK's situation has been well discussed.

 

It has, @monkeysarefun can go back and re-read rather than everyone else having to explain again.

 

If he asks again just ignore him.

[hayfield]

5 minutes ago, lapford34102 said:

Not sure aggressive, possibly more of the Devil's Advocate and maybe stems from a misunderstanding of our position vis-a-vis Europe.

Perhaps this will help. Anything similar in Aus ?

 

Lorries waiting at Manston so that drivers could be tested before crossing the Channel, probably a days worth there.

Hopefully Brian (Fat Controller) will pop along with a few figures at some point.

Stu

 

Perhaps its the manner of communication, or the fact that he does not understand what we in Europe are having to put up with

[Pete the Elaner]

38 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

Australia and nearby New Zealand are, in world terms, located at the back of the beyond. A long way from anywhere, not quick to get to and not very friendly to illegal immigration also. The warm countries to the north (Thaiand especially) also locked down tightly. So with travel in & out virtually non existent this past year they have controlled the virus well. However going forward and opening up are also massive problems as most / all  Aussies / Kiwis will need to be vaccinated or its day one all over again.

 

The opposite will occur with the UK, hopefully later this year when most are jabbed perhaps we can open up more - but will other countries struggling with vaccinations allow us in ?

 

 

I hope for their sake that countries are cautious about letting foreigners in.

Vaccinated people can still be carriers. Their bodies simply deal with the virus more efficiency & it seems more quickly too.

 

A quarantine system like that employed by Australia seems to be an answer. It costs the state nothing either because it is charged to those quarantined. I fully expect Australia to keep this in place until they have a significant percentage of their population vaccinated.

[Hobby]

Actually it does cost the country money as it stops short holiday goers such as those who only have two or three weeks maximum or day trippers such as cruise ships. There's a lot of income comes from those visitors. 

 

I think at some point, probably when most people in a country have been vaccinated, that they will have to open up and accept the risk of it still spreading. The world's economy cannot stand total shutdown of foreign travel, too many countries rely on tourist income. We are starting to get close to that in the UK now. 10/14 day quarantines are not viable in the long term except for people from high risk countries, even then we would have to ensure that other countries where we do allow visitors from have similar robust checks from the high risk countries. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Hobby

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

Actually it does cost the country money as it stops short holiday goers such as those who only have two or three weeks maximum or day trippers such as cruise ships. There's a lot of income comes from those visitors. 

 

I think at some point, probably when most people in a country have been vaccinated, that they will have to open up and accept the risk of it still spreading. The world's economy cannot stand total shutdown of foreign travel, too many countries rely on tourist income. We are starting to get close to that in the UK now. 10/14 day quarantines are not viable in the long term except for people from high risk countries, even then we would have to ensure that other countries where we do allow visitors from have similar robust checks from the high risk countries. 

 

However this assumes that not locking down, quarantining visitors or instituting travel restrictions comes with no cost, which it patently doesn't. It's arguable that early and serious restrictions work out better for the economy long term than late, half hearted ones, released too early. 

[Hobby]

I acknowledge that lockdown, prevention of movement, etc., are essential, but they are only a short term solution which was the point I was making. 

 

I was talking about when and how we come out of them and why we have to do so. Many countries are heavily reliant on tourist income so long term lockdowns and closed borders are not a viable long term solution. 

 

It seems to me that many people can't seem to accept that the world has, at some point, got to open up and that will have to happen even when covid is still around. They seem to want us all hunkered down until it goes away. No matter how much we do, however, Covid is not something we can just eradicate, it is something we have to live with long term. The sooner people accept that the better. 

 

It's not a pleasent message, but it's reality. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Hobby

[jcm@gwr]

Had my jab this morning at 9.30, very efficient, in and out very quickly,

jab almost painless, sat for 15 mins before driving home.

About an hour later, the pain/ache was from my elbow to my ear, and

getting waves of mild feelings of sickness, mild hot flushes, etc.

Not terrible, or life threatening, but glad I stayed at home today!

We'll see what it's/I'm like tomorrow!

[Hibelroad]

1 hour ago, jcm@gwr said:

Had my jab this morning at 9.30, very efficient, in and out very quickly,

jab almost painless, sat for 15 mins before driving home.

About an hour later, the pain/ache was from my elbow to my ear, and

getting waves of mild feelings of sickness, mild hot flushes, etc.

Not terrible, or life threatening, but glad I stayed at home today!

We'll see what it's/I'm like tomorrow!

Vaccination seems to affect everyone differently, some are lucky and it had no obvious effect, others can experience all kinds of side effects. Mrs had AZ this morning and said her arm was tingling and a bit numb, it seems to have settled down now. I had a sore area in the injection site which went on for maybe 10 days, but thats gone now. Unfortunately when you inject strange chemicals and materials into the body it does tend to react in some way. Hopefully your symptoms should ease shortly and as the pandemic passes it will all have been worthwhile. 

[jcm@gwr]

Thank you all for the the supportive reactions, I wasn't posting for sympathy

(nice though it is to get!), more to let others know what might be in store.

As has been said before, a number of times, we all can react differently to the

same vaccination, and for differing lengths of time.

I'm already feeling better, with respect to the arm, and a bit less sickness/hot

flush effects, but do feel a bit washed out.

Most importantly, I'm half-way to decent protection from the virus!

[Hobby]

Which one was it? 

[jcm@gwr]

Just now, Hobby said:

Which one was it? 

 

Oxford AZ, the only one available at local centres.

[johndon]

I had the AZ jab on Wednesday afternoon,  by 1am yesterday morning I had shivers like I've never experienced before, a banging headache and aches and pains all over my body.  My arm was so painful last night I couldn't lie on it.  A bit better today but not much.  

 

Still, it is better than the alternative...

[Metr0Land]

35 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Which one was it? 

 

Unless I'm mistaken all 1st jabs are now AZ, with Pfizer supplies being held back for those who need a 2nd Pfizer.

[jcm@gwr]

1 minute ago, Metr0Land said:

 

Unless I'm mistaken all 1st jabs are now AZ, with Pfizer supplies being held back for those who need a 2nd Pfizer.

 

That I wasn't aware of, but makes sense, but one of the main reasons that AZ

jabs are more readily available has to be the ease of storage and transport.

[kipford]

My wife and I had AZ about 3 weeks ago. Wife no reactions at all. I had stomach cramps for about a couple of hours in the night and a slightly sore arm for a couple of days. My daughter in law also had AZ back in January (she is a Respiratory consultant) and was knocked out for a day. My son (Neurologist) has had both Pfizer jabs and just had a sore arm. My parents have had both Pfizer jabs and only sore arms. So it shows the reaction is indeterminate until you have the jab.

[Andy Hayter]

10 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

 

 

 

The normal UK population is not travelling abroad for holidays, there was limited travel last summer but not even allowed to stay away from home overnight except for business. However the powers that be still allow business travel and citizens returning home. Only recently has it been a requirement to isolate, then most do so from home

 

Being so close to the continent there are many entry points into the UK, until January there was unlimited access from Europe anyway by legal agreement, there is still unlimited access from Ireland, in theory Europeans can travel to the UK via Ireland and then face no border checks

 

 

There is a major misconception on business travel.

If I have a piece of kit making PPE that breaks down and requires a German technician to come to the UK, replace the part and reset the machine, that is essential travel.   It is also business travel.  Do not believe that all business travel is men in dark suits and smart ties.  Nor wannabes flying around the world.

 

Equally with open borders.

The UK could at any time have shut all borders under medical emergency rules within the EU - even to Ireland.  It chose not to do so.  

[Hobby]

It could, but how long would we have survived? Not long. Total closure of borders is a non starter, even Aus and NZ still have their borders open for certain traffic. Even North Korea doesn't have completely closed borders! 

[Ohmisterporter]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

 Even North Korea doesn't have completely closed borders! 

 

Unless you are trying to get out.