Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

You are displaying a prejudice against students. There is no way you can comment on "pretty much all" of them.

They are similar to everyone else in that if you explain why something is good, they are willing to understand. If you tell them "do this because I say so" they will not show any respect.

 

Are you jealous that they have most of their life ahead of them?

 

I think throughout this pandemic many younger people have acted this way, (not all) and some to a greater extent than others. Certainly I have seen the hoards leaving the school bus doing this (am I being prejudicial reporting a fact ?) , also many younger people (and not so young) have been caught partying etc. 

 

Hardly prejudice but perhaps a little over generalisation. 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

11 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Had any minister suggested that we would be seeing up to 100,000 new infections a day 6 months ago let alone in Feb/March last year there would be an outcry, now we are shrugging our shoulders. 27,000 infections a day seems serious, yet whilst hospital admissions have risen, they are not seen as a big concern

 

It very much looks like this summer the experts want the virus to burn itself out, thus protecting the younger generation in the future by infecting them when they are young and more able to fight it off, a bit like we were exposed to chickenpox and measles virus's. Or just catching influenza which for most meant a week off work.

 

Was this how we expected to beat Covid or just how medical knowledge/treatment has evolved ?

You might be but some of us are not.

Please read the article quoted by spikey and the one I mentioned recently by the WHO.

Our government seems to have abdicated all responsibility.

We had the infection rate down to around 2000 per day and now it is over 10 times that. 

People are not dying in large numbers in the UK at the moment so sticking two fingers up to the rest of the world is OK?

Or am I biased having just come off the phone to Germany where they are bemused by the UK short term policy of allowing tens of thousands to go to the football and our long term policy of abandoning general precautions. 

Or is it that I know several people crippled with long covid and you and the government do not?

Any price is worth paying to prevent people going through that. 

I stuck up for Hancock over his dealings with the vaccine development and PPE, but thought he should have gone over the other stuff.

Boy oh boy, have things changed since he went.

Bernard

 

 

 

[Reorte]

56 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

You are displaying a prejudice against students. There is no way you can comment on "pretty much all" of them.

They are similar to everyone else in that if you explain why something is good, they are willing to understand. If you tell them "do this because I say so" they will not show any respect.

 

Are you jealous that they have most of their life ahead of them?

 

I pity them for it rather than feel jealous, being someone who's really not keen on the way the world's is and going. But at the risk of prejudice on appearance the only (small) number of young people I've seen doing the "I'm exempt" claim don't look likely to be (although you can never tell) but do look like the sort not interested in any sort of education. Most people of any age aren't like that, although I've not been on a bus or a train since this all started to see if there have been any changes of behaviour there.

[beast66606]

24 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Or is it that I know several people crippled with long covid and you and the government do not?

 

I don't know anyone who has long Covid, I only know a very small number of people who have had Covid - we can't use our own personal view points, the bigger picture needs to be considered and risks assessed - and decisions taken, not all of which will be popular with everyone.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Had any minister suggested that we would be seeing up to 100,000 new infections a day 6 months ago let alone in Feb/March last year there would be an outcry, now we are shrugging our shoulders. 27,000 infections a day seems serious, yet whilst hospital admissions have risen, they are not seen as a big concern

 

It very much looks like this summer the experts want the virus to burn itself out, thus protecting the younger generation in the future by infecting them when they are young and more able to fight it off, a bit like we were exposed to chickenpox and measles virus's. Or just catching influenza which for most meant a week off work.

 

Was this how we expected to beat Covid or just how medical knowledge/treatment has evolved ?

Hard to see how there's any real practical alternative. Covid's not going to vanish from the world so cases will go up sooner or later when restrictions are removed, so once you've got the risk squashed to a high level through vaccination what reason is there to try to keep case numbers suppressed, a task that would be never-ending? It's not perfect, it'll still hit some people, as do various other diseases, but that's the world for you.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Reorte

[hayfield]

10 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

You might be but some of us are not.

Please read the article quoted by spikey and the one I mentioned recently by the WHO.

Our government seems to have abdicated all responsibility.

We had the infection rate down to around 2000 per day and now it is over 10 times that. 

People are not dying in large numbers in the UK at the moment so sticking two fingers up to the rest of the world is OK?

Or am I biased having just come off the phone to Germany where they are bemused by the UK short term policy of allowing tens of thousands to go to the football and our long term policy of abandoning general precautions. 

Or is it that I know several people crippled with long covid and you and the government do not?

Any price is worth paying to prevent people going through that. 

I stuck up for Hancock over his dealings with the vaccine development and PPE, but thought he should have gone over the other stuff.

Boy oh boy, have things changed since he went.

Bernard

 

 

 

 

I too was concerned about the rising infection numbers we have experienced in the past 2 weeks, with the greatest respect to the WHO, they have made a complete mess of this pandemic, in fact they seem to me to be more concerned about not upsetting certain governments than protecting the Worlds health, but this is another subject

 

As you say in the past we would have been terrified at this amount of infection, and who know how much infection was about in the early days

 

Lets look at all the facts rather than cherry pick individual ones. We have had a massive rise in infections due to the delta strain, hospital admissions and deaths have only increased slightly, and we are being told that those admitted to hospital are less seriously ill than in previous spikes. Also our death rates are comparable with much of Europe who are declaring much lower infection rates.

 

We are also told that the infection is mainly in the younger ages, many of whom are not being considered at the moment for vaccinations, the medical profession is also telling us vaccinating children is not necessarily a medical requirement unless there are underlying conditions

 

It may be the case that the best protection the younger generation can have is the antibodies they obtain from an infection they have in their early life, there must be a reason the medical profession is reluctant to vaccinate children. When we have a big influenza outbreak we don't go screaming about 20,000 a year, we take precautions by vaccinating the at risk groups and asking infected people to stay at home

 

Breaking the link between infections leading to mass hospitalizations and deaths has seemingly been broken, the latest admission statistics reveal the vast majority are either not vaccinated or not up to full vaccination levels.

 

 

[didcot]

2 minutes ago, hayfield said:

We are also told that the infection is mainly in the younger ages, many of whom are not being considered at the moment for vaccinations, the medical profession is also telling us vaccinating children is not necessarily a medical requirement unless there are underlying conditions

That in a nut shell is where we are as a family. Our youngest is on immunosuppressants for his arthritis and he is asthmatic. This time last year we were shielding. But like many he has been downgraded to clinically vulnerable. I would want him to have an appropriate vaccine. Especially as the rules are being relaxed in schools and he has been in hospital for chest infections. He has a flu jab each year. He still wears a mask regardless. It's still out there and pupils are still catching it locally. 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi John,

 

Could it be that the mask-less students are stating their sovereignty by reclaiming their birth rights taken from them  by government ?

 

Why stop at masks ? 

 

Gibbo.

No. They are just a**eholes.

[Pete the Elaner]

37 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

You might be but some of us are not.

Please read the article quoted by spikey and the one I mentioned recently by the WHO.

Our government seems to have abdicated all responsibility.

We had the infection rate down to around 2000 per day and now it is over 10 times that. 

People are not dying in large numbers in the UK at the moment so sticking two fingers up to the rest of the world is OK?

Or am I biased having just come off the phone to Germany where they are bemused by the UK short term policy of allowing tens of thousands to go to the football and our long term policy of abandoning general precautions. 

Or is it that I know several people crippled with long covid and you and the government do not?

Any price is worth paying to prevent people going through that. 

I stuck up for Hancock over his dealings with the vaccine development and PPE, but thought he should have gone over the other stuff.

Boy oh boy, have things changed since he went.

Bernard

 

 

 

 

As Hayfield points out, infection rates may still be rising but serious illnesses are less affected, so the threat is less severe. I read somewhere the other day that the death rate from flu is currently 10x that of Covid. That sounds like an exaggeration to me, but it does make a point.

 

The government also have to deal with the economy & taxation.

The aviation industry in particular has been hit very hard by this pandemic & is vociferous about needing to get back before their respective companies collapse. Other industries are also desperate to get back. You may disagree with their reasons but that will not change their opinions.

 

The balance has shifted a lot. The cost of the pandemic is rising all the time, particularly while businesses are being subsidised or those laid off are claiming unemployment. The government is under pressure to allow people to earn money again.

 

So no, the government has not "abdicated all responsibility", they simply have their own priorities.

[Neil]

7 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

.... The aviation industry in particular has been hit very hard by this pandemic & is vociferous about needing to get back before their respective companies collapse. .....

 

However both Ryanair and Easyjet will still require passengers to wear masks when the government lifts this restriction. Who'd have thought that Michael O'Leary would be more concerned about public health matters than Westminster.

 

I wonder if other employers, when considering how the easing of restrictions could affect their risk assessments and duties of care, will also require staff and public to mask up, distance, work from home where possible and maintain well ventilated premises. I wonder what trades unions (remember them) will have to say on the matter.

 

 

[TheQ]

The company I work for has said there will be no change in our rules till September at the earliest.. You can take your mask off at your desk, anywhere else you must wear one and there's a one way system for bits of the factory with narrow corridors.

[MJI]

Our company has a small number at work policy, that means unless masked and tested no more than 2 bubbles in the office, often that is two people, say me and boss, or support chap, boss and his sister.

 

I will be in soon to finish the config of some barcode kit..

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, TheQ said:

The company I work for has said there will be no change in our rules till September at the earliest.. You can take your mask off at your desk, anywhere else you must wear one and there's a one way system for bits of the factory with narrow corridors.

The difference between commercial expediency (HMG) and commercial reality (your employer).

 

John

[didcot]

It's surprising how many people are already not wearing masks. Did a lunchtime shop at Tesco on Monday. It's usually quiet. No one on the door anymore enforcing the rules. Hasn't been for some time. 

Saw one Father dragging two small children around. No mask, coughing without covering his mouth and swearing like a Navie at said children. He may have been exempt, but without stereotyping I don't  think he was, I may be wrong. That in a single example is why face coverings need to stay for a bit longer. 

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, didcot said:

That in a nut shell is where we are as a family. Our youngest is on immunosuppressants for his arthritis and he is asthmatic. This time last year we were shielding. But like many he has been downgraded to clinically vulnerable. I would want him to have an appropriate vaccine. Especially as the rules are being relaxed in schools and he has been in hospital for chest infections. He has a flu jab each year. He still wears a mask regardless. It's still out there and pupils are still catching it locally. 

 

I'd suggest you need to have a one to one with your GP, especially if your GP practice is also doing the jabs. 

[beast66606]

Just had confirmation from the ONS that my blood contains Covid antibodies - YIPPEEE - PARTY TIME !!!! *

 

 

 

 

* that was just to wind up the doom and gloom merchants **

 

 

** No it wasn't, it really is party time.

[didcot]

Just illustrate my earlier point, there is a positive case in the year above that of my son at his school. Also my wife works in a school with a member of staff now off isolating as her Husband is positive.

Summer hols can't come fast enough. 

[Hobby]

Went round the railway museum this morning and York in the afternoon. Very pleasent experience, especially in the city centre, I hadn't realised just how full of foreign tourists it gets. Get there whilst it's quiet, when they open to tourists from the far east it'll be back to its usual bedlem! 

[Gibbo675]

7 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

No. They are just a**eholes.

Dear Dunsignalling,

 

Look on the bright side, a**eholes they might be, however, bitter, twisted angry and frightened they are not. I know how I prefer to live my life.

 

By all means put me in whichever of the above category you wish !!!

 

Gibbo.

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi John,

 

Could it be that the mask-less students are stating their sovereignty by reclaiming their birth rights taken from them  by government ?

 

Why stop at masks ? 

 

Gibbo.

 

Gibbo

 

Whilst you are very welcome to your thoughts, what birth rights have been removed? None !!! We have all been asked to act in a way that benefits all. Its called being civilised.

 

I do agree it will be nice to live in a mask-less world again, providing we do not affect anybody's right to life. When the time is right we all can stop wearing masks 

 

Everyone is being treated the same, firstly for our own protection, secondly to protect others. This is a time of crisis where to get through it we all need to pull together. 

 

By all means do question things you either do not understand or disagree with, however please make sure your actions do not adversely affect others, especially those who may be far more vulnerable than yourself. You may be able to shrug off this nasty disease, others are not so fortunate.

 

 

[Neil]

Channel 4 news tonight reporting that NHS leaders are worried as the increase in cases of Covid is resulting in an increase of NHS staff off sick or having to isolate because they've come into contact with an infected person. Absenteeism running at about ten percent now but the trend is upwards. While hospitalisations due to Covid are not what they were the increased prevalence is having a negative effect and will hamper hospitals ability to both cope with their normal workload and whittle away at the backlog.

 

John's above point about needing to pull together is very relevant in this context.

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, didcot said:

It's surprising how many people are already not wearing masks. Did a lunchtime shop at Tesco on Monday. It's usually quiet. No one on the door anymore enforcing the rules. Hasn't been for some time. 

Saw one Father dragging two small children around. No mask, coughing without covering his mouth and swearing like a Navie at said children. He may have been exempt, but without stereotyping I don't  think he was, I may be wrong. That in a single example is why face coverings need to stay for a bit longer. 

And why I'll be continuing to do my shopping at 07.15, as I have for the past 18 months.... 

 

John

[Hobby]

We use click and collect, far easier. 

[John M Upton]

10 am on a Sunday morning for my supermarket food shopping, very civilised and quiet.  Had to do it on a Saturday recently and it was a horrific experience, aisles crammed with natters and ditherers, nothing on the shelves, old dears squeezing the life out of the bread loaves and then bunging the mangled remains back on the shelf, never again!

Edited July 7, 2021 by John M Upton

[Dunsignalling]

8 hours ago, John M Upton said:

10 am on a Sunday morning for my supermarket food shopping, very civilised and quiet.  Had to do it on a Saturday recently and it was a horrific experience, aisles crammed with natters and ditherers, nothing on the shelves, old dears squeezing the life out of the bread loaves and then bunging the mangled remains back on the shelf, never again!

I wouldn't recommend that where I live. There's usually twenty or thirty waiting to get in on Sunday morning.

 

I do two trips, Wednesday for Mum (92) and Step-dad (87), and Thursday for my own. It got too confusing doing it all in one go. I'm currently doing much more for them than usual until he's given the OK to drive again following an eye operation. Hopefully next week!

 

Weekday mornings are generally quiet until after 0830 so I reckon to be done before that. 

 

Agree that couples shopping together cause real bottlenecks. They seem to be the most likely not to have  lists and be working out their menu for the week as they go!

Edited July 8, 2021 by Dunsignalling