Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[alastairq]

28 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Isn’t that just the problem nowadays though, you can still love your country and be “backing Britain” but still love mixing with people from around the world……the world may seem big but is it really?

 Well, I've never really 'noticed' the different  people, especially working with them...until someone comes along and shoves an #### -ist thing in my face!

 

But, I believe it is my right to take a dislike to some people, or certain people.....or any people, come to that!  After all, there are many out there who have taken a dislike to me...either as a person, or as a member of a certain colour? Why should I not be allowed to reciprocate?

[Oldddudders]

13 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 Why should I not be allowed to reciprocate?

As long as you do it in private, no-one will know. 

[john new]

On 03/07/2021 at 10:34, john new said:

 

But if they hadn't travelled they wouldn't have got it.

 

What is still disturbing me at the moment is that the header on so many of the media articles reads - "Can I do ABC or go to XYZ?" when the more advisable headline surely ought to be Should I ..... rather than Can I .....

 

It is the media, and like leopards they won't change their spots, but I don't find it at all helpful towards ensuring the people around me will stay prudently aware of risks.

Apparently it is now being said that the 2000 were mostly people who had watched the game in groups  indoors and only a couple of hundred from the  mass gatherings outside. Still that is 200 more than necessary. We will just have to see what happens to the English stats in the week leading up to the 19th July announcements give the 14 day incubation period following on from England’s win yesterday and the match on Wednesday!

[alastairq]

4 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

As long as you do it in private, no-one will know. 

 That problem alone means we live in a society where the 'thought' police rule?

 

Does this mean, I can 'think' it, in private, but not in 'public?'

That I cannot tell someone who just happens to be of a different nationality or colour, that I simply don't like them? {Should the question arise?}

 

What happens when one simply voices a dislike, or disapproval, of a foreign football team?

 

Or the action of a foreign government, for example?

 

I think things have really gone over-the-top, when honesty has to be suppressed.

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

 

 

It was genuinely nice to hear foreign voices again…..how odd is that?

For me it would be very odd to spend a day where the majority of people I encountered were English by birth.

As for the phone, a genuine English voice on that is a very rare event. Except for my daughter. She was born in England but was brought up with English as her second language so I don't know quite how to classify her in respect of voice.

Bernard  ( Who is quite happy to go along with the big melting pot idea)

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

 That's a worrying observation...the Sun being a shining light????

Well a burning ball of plasma really…..burning by nuclear fusion…..and when the clouds clear sometimes a shining light 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

But, what might need changing is the overall concept of what 'quality of life'' actually means?  [Certainly not what the mass media, or PR spectrum of society would have us believe?]

 

Quality of life (as opposed to standard of living, although that's part of the means towards it) is whatever makes life happier or more satisfying. Simple in concept, difficult in practice to determine because it varies quite a lot from person to person, and often that which can seem appealing for it in the short term isn't in the long term, or isn't in balance without other things (consider the appeal of stuffing yourself with unhealthy food versus going out and exercising, as my belly will attest to).

 

But it's the only thing that matters when you get past the necessities of survival (and it's possible to get too concerned with those and throw quality of life out of the window in the process). Anything else that isn't a means to that end you've got to ask just what the point is.

[APOLLO]

It's certainly getting to be an itchy twitchy, politically correct, constantly walking on eggshell world, except here in Wigan where we generally don't give a toss about such matters, our diplomats are rugby league players !!!!

 

Any road up, we have this lot to put up with landing every Friday wiping out the pie shops !!

 

For the Martians have landed in Wigan

And they're wearing flat caps on their domes

And they've paid all their subs to the working men's clubs

'Cause Wigan reminds them of home

 

 

Brit15

[Neil]

I'm puzzled by the logic of the latest direction we seem to be  taken towards. This is maybe testing the water or softening up the public but it's clear that the government would like to make wearing masks a matter of personal choice. The notion seems to be that the public will have to accept 'personal responsibility' and will be trusted to 'exercise good judgement'. I think it's possible to see where the problems lie with this. It also strikes me as inconsistent, other areas where public safety is at stake are covered by legislation, I'm thinking of drink driving laws and the prohibition of smoking in enclosed public spaces.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Neil

[john new]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

 That problem alone means we live in a society where the 'thought' police rule?

 

Does this mean, I can 'think' it, in private, but not in 'public?'

That I cannot tell someone who just happens to be of a different nationality or colour, that I simply don't like them? {Should the question arise?}

 

What happens when one simply voices a dislike, or disapproval, of a foreign football team?

 

Or the action of a foreign government, for example?

 

I think things have really gone over-the-top, when honesty has to be suppressed.

 

 

 

What has changed is the recipient's attitude to parts of a sentence and the way it gets used. As a tall Yorkshireman I was often told I was a lanky/Lancie - swearword. The latter swearword being meant as the issue. That insult sentence, when the construct is seen as point of origin/colour/sexuality - swearword,  immediately takes on a different context and for obvious historic (and obsolete) reasons I could object to being called a Lancastrian!

 

In the modern world the descriptor has become regarded as far more problematic/insulting than the actual insult/swearword and, sadly, for many bigots including the origin/colour/sexuality words that emphasis  is true. 

 

 

[lapford34102]

32 minutes ago, Neil said:

I'm puzzled by the logic of the latest direction we........

Think now Hancock is gone we'll see an increasing drift in a particular direction, one I don't think I'm going to be that happy with

Stu

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

But, I believe it is my right to take a dislike to some people, or certain people.....or any people, come to that! 

You do have such a right, and I doubt it’s ever come under the slightest challenge.

 

We can all think what we will.

 

Where the trouble starts is when people act on the basis of their dislikes, and shoot their mouths off about who they dislike, especially when they do it way too freely, and stir up a load of enmity and trouble in the process.

 

There have been limitations on actions and speech of this kind “forever” (conduct likely to lead to a breach of the peace etc), because it’s the sort of stuff that starts fights in pubs, quickly becomes bullying etc. The ancient advice to “do as you would be done by” comes into it too.

 

In short: dislike whoever you want, just remember that the rest of the world probably doesn’t want to hear about it, and those who you dislike have as much right to go about their lives without castigation as you do.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

I'm puzzled by the logic of the latest direction we seem to be  taken towards. This is maybe testing the water or softening up the public but it's clear that the government would like to make wearing masks a matter of personal choice. The notion seems to be that the public will have to accept 'personal responsibility' and will be trusted to 'exercise good judgement'. I think it's possible to see where the problems lie with this. It also strikes me as inconsistent, other areas where public safety is at stake are covered by legislation, I'm thinking of drink driving laws and the prohibition of smoking in enclosed public spaces.

 

I think a lot of folk certainly in the short term would like to still wear masks, and perhaps certain organising (NHS ?) would still prefer their use for a while. 

[MJI]

Side effects.

 

From people I know Moderna seems to have more than Oxford or Biontech.

 

Done the AB test and Moderna slightly worse on 21 year olds

[John M Upton]

From what I have seen in the last few days, a lot of people are no longer bothering with masks anymore already. This is the problem with these advanced leaks/briefs/signposts that the Government insist on doing days and weeks prior to official announcements, people assume it is effective immediately. 

 

Sadly there are still a lot of people out there who do something because Boris said so..

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

You do have such a right, and I doubt it’s ever come under the slightest challenge.

 

We can all think what we will.

 

Where the trouble starts is when people act on the basis of their dislikes, and shoot their mouths off about who they dislike, especially when they do it way too freely, and stir up a load of enmity and trouble in the process.

 

There have been limitations on actions and speech of this kind “forever” (conduct likely to lead to a breach of the peace etc), because it’s the sort of stuff that starts fights in pubs, quickly becomes bullying etc. The ancient advice to “do as you would be done by” comes into it too.

 

In short: dislike whoever you want, just remember that the rest of the world probably doesn’t want to hear about it, and those who you dislike have as much right to go about their lives without castigation as you do.

“ Die Gedanken sind frei “   
 

After 15 months of on/off restrictions,the truth is that people are tired. Current restrictions are unworkable and unenforceable.This government knows it,despite legitimate concerns from Health professionals. On a personal note,I cannot wait to rid myself of the choking encumbrance of mask wearing which is a challenge to anyone who wears both spectacles and hearing aids. 
 

My journey through the pandemic has been ….perhaps…..more challenging than most. For a year ,starting at the beginning of COVID-19 when she was initially diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer,I cared for my wife at home. She died here at the end of March and my son and I negotiated the funeral restrictions in place.  
 

I am naturally achingly and deeply sad.Who wouldn’t be after 55: years of marriage ? I know too that other forum members have had the unenviable task of facing this and probably know exactly where I’m coming from.   But I have to reconnect with life as a member of society and am beginning to cautiously move in that direction….going solo as it were…..and yes things are quietly opening up towards a normal way of life. 
 

In the last couple of weeks,I’ve taken a weekend let in a cottage near Coniston as a 50 th birthday present for my son,eaten meals out on sunny terraces among people who are happy,friendly and so glad to be out ,walked a bit in gorgeous scenery and watched some enjoying water sports  on Windermere. Yesterday afternoon as I posted earlier,I attended a live choral concert…my first on my own. All of the above was/is positive and more are planned.

 

 I need a break. I am worn down and now solitary . But I will go on and pick myself up etc. . I need the freedom to breathe. And I appreciate everyone’s concern for their future. This is just me.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Ian Hargrave
Spelling

[Bernard Lamb]

Just been having a go at the home test kit.

SWMBO needs them prior to travelling soon and as my daughter has a regular test at her school we thought that we better understand how it is done.

Quite straight forward if a bit irritable when the stick goes up your nose.

According to my daughter the test can be fooled by a fruit acid mix ( I will not go further but she did explain) and bubbles of school kids are using this to get sent home.

The test and trace procedure seems to have broken down with very few places now asking you to check in. That coupled with a noticeable decline in mask wearing indicates to me that there will be a big increase in the spread of the virus. Even more so with the lifting of restrictions in a couple of weeks. Probably time to revert to being a pit more wary of meeting too many people, especially as I want to go to some events in the next few weeks and do not want to risk exposure and having to isolate. But then I could always join the masses who now seem to be ignoring such requests. 

Bernard

[Hobby]

2 hours ago, Neil said:

I'm puzzled by the logic of the latest direction we seem to be  taken towards. This is maybe testing the water or softening up the public but it's clear that the government would like to make wearing masks a matter of personal choice. The notion seems to be that the public will have to accept 'personal responsibility' and will be trusted to 'exercise good judgement'. 

 

I feel its just bowing to the inevitable, it has been a sod to police it and relatively few have been prosecuted, so I suspect they'll keep it for places that are easy to control but loosen for other places. 

 

1 hour ago, john new said:

 

What has changed is the recipient's attitude to parts of a sentence and the way it gets used. As a tall Yorkshireman I was often told I was a lanky/Lancie - swearword. The latter swearword      

 I could object to being called a Lancastrian!

 

I've never heard of lanky being used to describe a Lancastrian, it has always meant a tall and usually thin person in the North of England so don't know why on earth you thought that it was short for a Lancastrian! 

 

Lancie? I assume you've just made that up!! 

 

(From a proud Prestonian and therefore a Lancastrian and not all that lanky!) 

[Metr0Land]

37 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

According to my daughter the test can be fooled by a fruit acid mix ( I will not go further but she did explain) and bubbles of school kids are using this to get sent home.

 

 

https://theconversation.com/covid-19-kids-are-using-soft-drinks-to-fake-positive-tests-ive-worked-out-the-science-and-how-to-spot-it-163739

[adb968008]

On 03/07/2021 at 11:59, Hobby said:

 

That is why I made the other post, we'll never know! They could have been the carriers (already had it before travelling), they could have caught it from fellow Scots who they could have met in Scotland. 

 

I haven't seen any English links to the outbreak either, so that would indicate it was they that brought it with them... 

 

All completely hypothetical if course, the point is was making was that the evidence simply isn't enough to prove anything, though some are trying to say it is. Where's the "linked" outbreak in England from these Scottish fans, for instance? If there isn't one then it would seem that they brought it down with them and spread it around between them whilst mixing in gatherings. 

 

There's lies, damned lies, and statistics!

 

Its a Scottish study, about Scottish residents, so it only focussed on the Scottish element.

you cant hold that up as biased stats.

If we had an equivalent English study, then you could compare.

[adb968008]

9 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I think it is simply that those who have a serious concern about how things are going bother to post here, while many thousands of other RMwebbers get on with life, dealing with current constraints as they see fit. 

 

My own interest is focussed quite heavily on when I might manage to see my wife again, other than on Zoom, as she lives in the UK. With France and UK permanently at odds about each others' Covid status, it may still be a while. We were last together on October 5th.....

Lucky you, my wife hasnt seen her family since Feb 2020.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by adb968008

[Hobby]

8 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Its a Scottish study, about Scottish residents, so it only focussed on the Scottish element.

you cant hold that up as biased stats.

If we had an equivalent English study, then you could compare.

 

Having read the initial link you put up and then other reports since it seems to me that they wanted the stats to prove something and twisted them to that end. As I said in an earlier post you could also read them other ways and, more importantly, they cannot say for certain where the covid cases were caught. 

 

Lies, damned lies... And statistics. 

[adb968008]

16 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Having read the initial link you put up and then other reports since it seems to me that they wanted the stats to prove something and twisted them to that end. As I said in an earlier post you could also read them other ways and, more importantly, they cannot say for certain where the covid cases were caught. 

 

Lies, damned lies... And statistics. 

Not knowing where Covid has been caught is the key to the whole pandemic.

unlike Cholera, where once a source was identified you can isolate it.

 

Covid is airborne and so is down to mis-fortune and managing your own odds in relation to probability, but that is no less different than Cold, Flu, Norovirus etc.

 

but its going to be hard to unwind the population from the once in a century certain death plague the country has become attuned to… Euro 2020 is certainly helping that unwinding.

 

The experiment we are seeing is can we live with Covid.. if they let it rip and the weaker 50% of the whole population is double vaccinated…can the other half shrug it off, the rest of the world is watching our experiment with caution.

 

But that what the government is trying to do, if cases start reaching 150k a day, I can see those brakes being applied again, but I dont think it will, when school holidays start, the super spread maybe broken, but cases distributed across the countries holiday spots & back to peoples home again ready for September.

Edited July 4, 2021 by adb968008

[Jonboy]

I didn’t see this reported elsewhere at the time https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254105/Coronavirus-Government-scientific-advisers-call-debate-allowing-big-wave-infection.html 

[john new]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

I feel its just bowing to the inevitable, it has been a sod to police it and relatively few have been prosecuted, so I suspect they'll keep it for places that are easy to control but loosen for other places. 

 

 

I've never heard of lanky being used to describe a Lancastrian, it has always meant a tall and usually thin person in the North of England so don't know why on earth you thought that it was short for a Lancastrian! 

 

Lancie? I assume you've just made that up!! 

 

(From a proud Prestonian and therefore a Lancastrian and not all that lanky!) 

 

Origin where I heard it used - football terrace chants of "You dirty Lanckie* b*****s" and similar in the 70s following my home town team against Lancashire based teams. In the quote used it was more to make the point without quoting actual slang words for colour/gender/origin/orientation etc that would have justifiably caused offence. Not being woke just sensible.

 

*intended spelling - who knows!

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by john new