Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[John M Upton]

Seemes that the behind the scenes briefing of the press is happening again.  All mask to go on 19th of July?

 

Can't see it myself, the Scottish football spike will almost certainly be followed by more football related spikes in the coming couple of weeks if England keep going.

 

This is going to rumble through to August...

[Nearholmer]

12 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

Do others still operate such a system or have they discontinued it in view of apparent limited contact transmission? 

Personally, no. We’re pretty relaxed about anything ‘surface related’ in our family - hand washing, or if out and about s then sanitiser, seem ample protection.

 

Its been apparent for a long time that to catch the thing by surface contact transfer, several unlikely things have to happen in a row, and that aerosol/droplet-in-air transfer is by far the bigger hazard.

 

Makes me shudder to think that in March/April last year, we were all going crazy to prevent contact transfer, while being told that masks really weren’t worth the bother.

 

[Hobby]

We're the same, open the post straight away, always have done. 

 

It was interesting that the headline figure of 1991 in that earlier link about Scottish fans includes the two(?) matches at Hampden. 1300 is the figure quoted of people travelling to London (note: not Wembley) and catching it. So it seems things are not so clear cut, in that it was just as or more likely mixing on the way there and in large uncontrolled crowds in Central London was responsible for the spread. 

Edited July 1, 2021 by Hobby

[Zero Gravitas]

21 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

We are still operating a 3 day quarantine system for mail and deliveries eg we have just opened Monday's post.  Do others still operate such a system or have they discontinued it in view of apparent limited contact transmission? 

 

Here at Gravitas Towers we never did.  We took the view that we could wash everything in the entire world, or we could just wash our hands more often. That seemed a bit easier, so that’s what we did. 

[beast66606]

32 minutes ago, Hobby said:

We're the same, open the post straight away, always have done. 

 

It was interesting that the headline figure of 1991 in that earlier link about Scottish fans includes the two(?) matches at Hampden. 1300 is the figure quoted of people travelling to London (note: not Wembley) and catching it. So it seems things are not so clear cut, in that it was just as or more likely mixing on the way there and in large uncontrolled crowds in Central London was responsible for the spread. 

 

We've also always opened our post

 

I wonder if the huge march in London last weekend will spark a huge rise in cases -  

 

BBC under their local news.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57623110

 

I notice some of the protestors use the F word too, if only they'd read some of the comments on this thread, they'd have known there was no need to march at all.

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

We are still operating a 3 day quarantine system for mail and deliveries eg we have just opened Monday's post.  Do others still operate such a system or have they discontinued it in view of apparent limited contact transmission? 

Mrs4479 insists on wiping all mail thoroughly with diluted bleach prior to opening. So we're dead safe ... but the contents get a bit damp.

 

When she isn't in, I open the mail, put the envelopes straight into the bin (along with much of the mail, in truth) then immediately wash my hands. In my simple logic, that gets you to pretty much the same point ... but without the contents being soggy.

[AY Mod]

2 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Mrs4479 insists on wiping all mail thoroughly with diluted bleach prior to opening. So we're dead safe ... but the contents get a bit damp.

 

When she isn't in, I open the mail, put the envelopes straight into the bin (along with much of the mail, in truth) then immediately wash my hands. In my simple logic, that gets you to pretty much the same point ... but without the contents being soggy.

 

Snap. At least we get plastic money out of a cashpoint these days before Mrs Y drowns it; it's only the window cleaner that we need it for.

[woodenhead]

7 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Snap. At least we get plastic money out of a cashpoint these days before Mrs Y drowns it; it's only the window cleaner that we need it for.

You need to find a contactless window cleaner - we've plenty round our way, but I don't think they get the gist of contactless, it's a payment method not how you clean the windows.

[woodenhead]

4 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

We are still operating a 3 day quarantine system for mail and deliveries eg we have just opened Monday's post.  Do others still operate such a system or have they discontinued it in view of apparent limited contact transmission? 

I just wash my hands, though I am not sure why any more, clearly been conditioned well to do hands, space, face.

[AY Mod]

19 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

You need to find a contactless window cleaner

 

We had to look for one of those after an instance some years ago where he wanted too much contact with Mrs Y. Turns out he was dirtier than the windows before he turned up.

[Oldddudders]

I note the scrotes who harassed Prof Whitty the other day have been outed and named. One has lost his job as a result. He'd have lost more than that had I got hold of him......

 

As for safe public transport, Sherry is currently on 1S55, 14.27 Plymouth - Edinburgh, en route New St to get to Crewe, staying with her daughter. She has a poor sense of smell - yes, I know, that must have helped during our courtship! - but said that on joining the Voyager at Newton Abbot even she could smell it was freshly cleaned.

 

The train is a pair of 220s, and lightly loaded. The other couple of first class passengers are masked, which is nice. 

[woodenhead]

11 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The other couple of first class passengers are masked, which is nice. 

Makes a change because it used to be the operators in masks charging extortionate prices for first class travel.  

[alastairq]

13 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

The other couple of first class passengers are masked, which is nice.

Not....Batman & Robin, by any chance?    

[Neil]

8 hours ago, 2750Papyrus said:

We are still operating a 3 day quarantine system for mail and deliveries eg we have just opened Monday's post.  Do others still operate such a system or have they discontinued it in view of apparent limited contact transmission? 

 

Just beginning to relax our quarantine system for mail and deliveries. We've taken a very cautious approach from the outset as Mrs R has 'underlying health conditions' but thanks to both of us being double jabbed and having had time for it to take effect we're happy to ease back a bit. Having said that we probably still err more on the side of caution than average. Mail gets opened but the outers go into the bin and we wash hands straight after.

[adb968008]

2nd hand about to expire vaccines anyone ?

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-said-negotiating-covid-vaccine-swap-deal-with-uk/
 

 

[Hobby]

"Secondhand" would suggest that they are somehow "used" but they aren't, simply ones that have a month to go and they won't be able to be used by the Israelis in time. "Sharing excess capacity" perhaps? Sounds like a good idea as we need that brand of vaccine and will be able to use them all by the end of the month. Makes you wonder how many doses have been wasted though. Haven't much of mainland Europe wasted a lot of AZ vaccines due to their reluctance to use them? 

 

The only question I would have is why they have not been offered to a developing country instead, but that could simply be the case that they cannot guarantee the second dose to that country. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Hobby

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, Hobby said:

"Secondhand" would suggest that they are somehow "used" but they aren't, simply ones that have a month to go and they won't be able to be used by the Israelis in time. Sounds like a good idea as we need that brand of vaccine and will be able to use them all by the end of the month. Makes you wonder how many doses have been wasted though. Haven't much of mainland Europe wasted a lot of AZ vaccines due to their reluctance to use them? 

 

The only question I would have is why they have not bee offered to a developing country instead, but that could simply be the case that they cannot guarantee the second dose to that country. 

I'd think it's purely down to the UK's vaccination programme being rapid enough to use them up before the expiry date. It effectively brings forward a supply at a time we can greatly benefit from the extra doses being available, so sounds like a win-win.

 

Not much point sending them anywhere that can't get them used quickly enough. AIUI, we weren't first pick, and the first country in line for the deal turned it down for precisely that reason.

 

John

 

 

[adb968008]

On 01/07/2021 at 09:16, Nearholmer said:

 

 

Makes me shudder to think that in March/April last year, we were all going crazy to prevent contact transfer, while being told that masks really weren’t worth the bother.

 

Some of us werent, but we were being laughed at at the time for precautions we were making that were seen as too extreme. Indeed even the NHS is only just catching up on mask quality.

 

Its back in the history of this thread my own experience of Sars in Asia, and my own precautions based on it.

 

I know for definite 3 occasions as mask has directly made a difference, sadly one neighbour queuing for his turkey in a paper mask along side myself in my Aura mask, at christmas wont be here next year for another, and the butcher selling it to us, hasnt been at work since he went into intensive care on December 26th and came out in February.

 

it was obvious to some of us this was airborne, but we had to wait for the experts to find out,.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by adb968008

[Nearholmer]

I actually remember you saying it at the time.

[adb968008]

45 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I actually remember you saying it at the time.

I think they knew, the issue was supply of ppe, and getting hard evidence.

studies take minimum 6 months to be collated, peer reviewed etc.

 

meanwhile ppe was short, if half the UK rush out to buy it, there was never going to be enough to go around, so diverting people to their own methods meant people could do something, whilst authorities could focus on what they could get.

Of course, we are in competitions with the Americans, who banned exporting of 3M masks for a period… both UK, EU and China didnt react to this, meaning global production was being diverted to the US for a number of months. (I bought my supply from the US as soon as this whole thing started, just because ive seen it before, overeaction.. maybe then people think yes, but doubt they’d see it as wrong now).

 

They could have called it as airborne at the time, but that would have meant the unbelievable.. lockdowns, travel closure etc.. of course by the time it was forced on them, it was back foot reaction due to the size of it.

 

By this time home made / cottage industry masks were established and FFP grade masks had 600% increased in price.. (what price is your life worth vs the risk, vs the publicity of those can afford vs those who cannot etc).

 

I do find recent theories that covid could attach to pollen interesting, though i’m unsure how much actual contribution to figures that represents…

Ive always believed it travels easily by public transport, in air conditioned stock, upstairs on buses, aircraft etc, also on currency, which changes hands often.
 

What science needs is an air spray that colourizes covid particles in the air. I do think touching surfaces is still a vector, but air is the natural.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by adb968008

[D9020 Nimbus]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

The only question I would have is why they have not been offered to a developing country instead, but that could simply be the case that they cannot guarantee the second dose to that country. 

Pfizer needs storage at -70°C — not sure how many developing countries would be able to manage that.

[adb968008]

6 hours ago, Hobby said:

"Secondhand" would suggest that they are somehow "used" but they aren't,

Not according to half the stuff sold on ebay.

 

I guess they are still in original packaging, but I wonder if they come with any warranty ?

I’d imagine theres not many countries that could receive, check, distribute and use 1million vaccines within 30 days, given its the 2nd July already.

The Palestinians rejected them, and they are next door, which begs the question why ?

 

Israel isnt selling them, they are offering to swap them, so giving them away is no different really… its a logistics thing.

Seeing them wasted would be crazy, but Africas already wasted loads of AZ, and other countries are trading them about.

Edited July 2, 2021 by adb968008

[Hobby]

I think you are reading far too much into this. I've no doubt the Israelis would have kept it correctly and I think Nimbus answered your point about the Palestinians. It isn't used and it's in date. We can use it they can't, sharing resources is all it is. 

[john new]

On 01/07/2021 at 09:21, Hobby said:

We're the same, open the post straight away, always have done. 

 

It was interesting that the headline figure of 1991 in that earlier link about Scottish fans includes the two(?) matches at Hampden. 1300 is the figure quoted of people travelling to London (note: not Wembley) and catching it. So it seems things are not so clear cut, in that it was just as or more likely mixing on the way there and in large uncontrolled crowds in Central London was responsible for the spread. 

 

But if they hadn't travelled they wouldn't have got it.

 

What is still disturbing me at the moment is that the header on so many of the media articles reads - "Can I do ABC or go to XYZ?" when the more advisable headline surely ought to be Should I ..... rather than Can I .....

 

It is the media, and like leopards they won't change their spots, but I don't find it at all helpful towards ensuring the people around me will stay prudently aware of risks.

[Oldddudders]

5 minutes ago, john new said:

What is still disturbing me at the moment is that the header on so many of the media articles reads - "Can I do ABC or go to XYZ?" when the more advisable headline surely ought to be Should I ..... rather than Can I .....

Lockdown and similar impositions do not sit well with the C21 'want it now!' ethos. Pent-up demand for getting out and about is enormous. People take risks at the best of times, but now reason and caution are in short supply.