Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[alastairq]

Just now, Crisis Rail said:

 

Lucky.

 

Wherever "here" is?

 Luck has nowt to do with it.

Freedom is personal, to the individual.

 

I've never been unable to do those things I wish to do, or think those things I wish to think about, or say those things I wish to say.

 

But then, I've never had the desire to exceed my expectations.

 

The only thing that will alter my degree of personal freedom will be illness.

 

But then I'd need to alter my expectations.

 

 

[APOLLO]

In this world Freedom is a right that is hard won. In the case of Covid I would not use the word Freedom to describe full unlockdown. There is still great Covid concern here in the UK. Today's press has it that the current regulations will be extended, maybe for two weeks, and then perhaps longer to get immunisation figures up. I can't argue against this.

 

As to me personally I will continue with hands, space, face for the rest of this year - then will see what goes on. Off to the pub tomorrow to meet a couple of friends (all fully jabbed) for a pie, pint & natter. Not overly worried, the pub we go to has very good covid standards in place. I wouldn't go to an Exhibition, or anywhere with standing crowds etc.

 

I'm worried about Thailand though (family & friends over there) - Cases are ramping up sharply these last few days, Bangkok hospitals ICU's are nearly full, low national vaccination rate, etc - and they did so well last year with their lockdown. It's the UK & Indian variants that seem aggressive over there.

 

Long way to go yet - worldwide.

 

Brit15

[Nearholmer]

I seem to have kick-started this "permanent self-imposed shielding vs getting out and about a bit" conversation, so perhaps I should "state my position" on it.

 

Being at the young end of the older age spectrum, and reasonably healthy, now that I'm doble-vaccinated and "its had time to soak-in", my personal concern is not about ending-up dead from it (could happen, but feels pretty unlikely), or even getting ill enough to need to go to hospital, it is simply about the practicalities of being out-of-action with it for days or weeks, and imposing a load of extra work on my good lady, when we have a young family and all the busy-ness that goes with it. 

 

As Hayfield has spotted, prevalence of the bug where I live is pretty high, so my basic precautionary strategy has been to avoid indoor spaces, and overly busy outdoor spaces, where mask-wearing isn't de-riguer, which really only leaves big question marks over two places that I might routinely go: indoors in cafes/restaurants; and, public transport.

 

Our "vintage 0-gauge group" seems to have reached a consensus that we won't reconvene for a church-hall meeting (once such things are permitted) until everyone is double-jabbed, and a foreign holiday is off the agenda again this year, because both I and my good lady regard that idea as too risky (big sacrifice for her, given that she really does love baking-hot weather).

 

What's the collective view of train and bus travel at the moment? 

 

 

[Crisis Rail]

11 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 Luck has nowt to do with it.

Freedom is personal, to the individual.

 

I've never been unable to do those things I wish to do, or think those things I wish to think about, or say those things I wish to say.

 

But then, I've never had the desire to exceed my expectations.

 

The only thing that will alter my degree of personal freedom will be illness.

 

But then I'd need to alter my expectations.

 

 

 

Ok  - how about fortunate then.

[Crisis Rail]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

Certainly I will be accepting the flu jab this autumn and any booster if offered, keeping away from foreign holidays as well. Especially as they are concerned about a new wave with the Delta variant, and apparently the latest variant is the Delta Plus according to one report

 

Flu has been around for ages and wont ever be eradicated. It is indeed of course fatal but we still get on with our lives. 

[hayfield]

5 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

In this world Freedom is a right that is hard won. In the case of Covid I would not use the word Freedom to describe full unlockdown. There is still great Covid concern here in the UK. Today's press has it that the current regulations will be extended, maybe for two weeks, and then perhaps longer to get immunisation figures up. I can't argue against this.

 

As to me personally I will continue with hands, space, face for the rest of this year - then will see what goes on. Off to the pub tomorrow to meet a couple of friends (all fully jabbed) for a pie, pint & natter. Not overly worried, the pub we go to has very good covid standards in place. I wouldn't go to an Exhibition, or anywhere with standing crowds etc.

 

I'm worried about Thailand though (family & friends over there) - Cases are ramping up sharply these last few days, Bangkok hospitals ICU's are nearly full, low national vaccination rate, etc - and they did so well last year with their lockdown. It's the UK & Indian variants that seem aggressive over there.

 

Long way to go yet - worldwide.

 

Brit15

 

Spot on, what a bad use of the word especially when we look at the curbs some have to put up with on a daily basis across the world

 

We like going on holiday, having the odd meal out seeing family and friends as much as anyone else, but loosing these temporally was not loosing our freedom

 

Like many others we have missed a family wedding a couple of close friends funerals and have not seen family for long extended periods, it was simply both protecting ourselves and others. Nothing to do with a loss of personal freedom (many completely ignored this some or all of the time anyway) 

 

Had we been locked away in a flat for months on end shielding it may have been a different story, or not seen anyone for days on end. I guess for these people they have had a really bad time and to some extent felt like being locked away. But most of us were free to come and go providing we followed certain rules

 

As for being free to go shopping, or being free to go on holiday abroad !! It shows haw sad our society is becoming

[John M Upton]

The NHS got in contact and I have had my second jab moved forward to this Friday.  Helpful in a number of ways, firstly it gets it out of the way with the weekend to recover and secondly, it gives me a far more legitimate excuse to get out of a social function on Friday evening I was the only one from our training group not attending other than 'Gardeners World is on the telly that night'.

 

I don't like social functions at the best of times but in the current circumstances, especially as it is in East Croydon of all places, I was fervently opposed to it from the start but did not want to appear rude.

 

Annoyingly, the BBC have shifted Friday's edition of Gardeners World later to half nine!

[Bulleidboy100]

50 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

What's the collective view of train and bus travel at the moment? 

 

 

 

I travelled to London a couple of weeks ago - the first time since March 2020 - for a dentist appointment. I booked the appointment for lunch time, and got a train at about 11.30am (forty five minute journey) . There were three people in the carriage - all masked - so I felt safe. I walked over Waterloo Bridge.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Bulleidboy100
amendment

[alastairq]

53 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Ok  - how about fortunate then.

 Again, not the way I'd describe my lifestyle. It's was, and is , a choice.

Made a long time ago.

Nothing to do with financial security either...far from it, my choices made financial security almost a dream, hardly ever a reality.

 

But, the overriding aim was to keep away from the madding crowd.  Poor I may be, but I have what I want of life, which may not be over ambitious in comparison to 99% of the rest of the world.

 

There are many ways to quantify 'quality', especially where 'life ' is concerned.

 

Like others on here, I can empathise with those stuck in flats, or on cheek-by-jowl estates....or with the pressures of others to consider.

But, in the end, all have had a choice.....which may not seem obvious to them at the time..but 'choices' they have.

[Dunsignalling]

53 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

What's the collective view of train and bus travel at the moment? 

 

 

I've resumed a weekly trip into Exeter, and the experience has been varied. The half-term week was manic with the 3-car 159 being close to full and standing. Since then it has been generally lightly loaded though, as is to be expected, some Tuesdays are busier than others.

 

The 3-car service I returned on the first two weeks was quite busy for the time of day; my car being around half full on both occasions! I now postpone my return by an hour, to use a train rostered to a 6-car formation.

 

John

[Nearholmer]

19 minutes ago, alastairq said:

But, in the end, all have had a choice.....which may not seem obvious to them at the time..but 'choices' they have.

 

I'm not sure I totally "buy that".

 

For many it is unarguably true, but then for another many I'm not at all sure it is. The choices effectively open to the very significant number of people in the UK who grow-up in circumstances where there is what might be called "impoverishment of opportunity" are pretty blasted limited.

 

Put another way, in order to opt out of the rat race, you have to have drawn a card that allows you to enter it in the first place. If you don't draw such a card on the day you are born, you can't opt-out, you are more or less excluded.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

What's the collective view of train and bus travel at the moment? 

 

 

 

Exactly the same as pre Covid. But a bit emptier.

 

Apart from they still have a few seats blocked off with tape. Time for that to go IMHO. People are standing up yet there are perfectly good seats taped out of use....

 

And a few people were still wearing masks, most have now ditched them. I was wearing one, only for appearances sake. I don't want a fine or some numpty starting a fight.

 

It's virtually back to normal.

 

Time for freedom I reckon. Permanently.

 

On 19th July that's it. No more restrictions.

 

 

 

Jason

[D9020 Nimbus]

I consider the current rate of infection (here in the north-east) too high to use buses or trains safely. When it drops to what I consider a "safe" level (20 per 100,000 — the same value the government considered safe last summer — I'll consider visiting local exhibitions that I can reach by bus and/or taxi (I don't have a car — I'm 6’ 6” tall and have never found it comfortable to drive for more than about half an hour in the past). 
 

I don't think I'll visit any non-local exhibitions where train travel is a necessity. On most train journeys on the ECML trains at weekends have considerable numbers of hen party groups aboard (at least they did pre-Covid)  since they spend a substantial part of the journey drinking they're not going to be masked and, if you board a train and find it's not safe, it's a long time before you can get off again.

 

The bus route to my local model shop passes three schools and an F.E. college — unless I can combine shopping there with other shopping in the same area — making the taxi fare viable — it's unlikely I'll visit.

 

[Ben B]

I've vented on here before about the situation in the playground at the school where Younger Foster Child attends, where there have been a lot of parents not wearing masks, and indeed anti-vax/'plandemic' propaganda posters and the like stuck up on the gates by some idiot(s).  Anyway, last week the school sent out a plea for greater mask wearing, enforced with the management out on the gates with a police officer present too for support.  Well, as of this afternoon, the Reception year bubble, Year 2, and now Year 5 are all locked-down with bubbles sent home to isolate, with individual other children who have been in contact with an infected person being notified across the whole school.  I suppose that latter group may or may not include my youngest, I haven't been notified yet, but the school seems to be going into panic stations and my phone keeps binging with updates.

 

Thing is, Middle Foster Child is at a primary school down the road from there, and she has been isolating since two positive cases in her class bubble last week.  That school's early-years are isolating too.  The playgroup down the road is isolating.  Elder Child (at secondary) has mentioned there's isolations there.  There's so many at the school my wife works at, that the management are refusing to say just how many are off now (rumoured to be because the Head wants to avoid spreading panic, but admittedly that could just be staffroom paranoia), but it looks like the whole sixth-form (who'd only just come back for 'bridging sessions) and several bubbles from other year groups isolating as of today.  Our Scout Group is down from 14 to 6 young people, one definite, possibly two more cases of Covid and the rest in isolating bubbles at three secondary schools.   

 

I've had my normal supervision video-calls with both my own Supervising Social Worker this morning, and the girls' Supervising Social Worker, both of whom have said they've four of their cases, and eight, respectively, in isolating groups at different schools across our little patch of West Yorkshire, with the latter's grand-daughter off with it too.

 

So that's 20+ classes of kids from primary to secondary isolating (with at least one confirmed cases of Covid in each class) in one relatively small metropolitan area today.  It worries me that this 'new normal' might be the happy acceptance that kids will be left to get it, schools isolate, parents scrabbling for childcare or leave etc...  Not sure what can be done there, perhaps vaccination for at least teenagers, but it's worrying me.  For all the Government bluster that things aren't so bad, and the constant parading on the news of people in the 'holiday industry' angry that we can't all travel abroad unrestricted, the situation certainly feels bloody ominous at the moment to me...

[Nearholmer]

Agree.

 

The school and school gate thing is one area where I think there has been undue degrees of slackening.

 

The Head at youngest’s primary school decided to move from class to year ‘bubbles’, and to cease requiring parents to wear masks when in school grounds, about a month ago. Now, granted, things looked rosier then than they do now in terms of case rates, but I thought both were ‘brave’ decisions at the time, and I expect any day to hear that a year is closing shop because of a positive case - it’s happened three miles away.

 

At some point a decision has to be made about whether this disease is a ‘tolerable’ one for children to catch, i.e. is it of truly low severity for them, and about whether the rest of the population is sufficiently protected to allow the probability of children bringing it home, or firmly not, and if not what the ongoing precautions are to be, because the present situation of attempting to stagger through, a half term at a time, with fingers crossed, isn’t sustainable. 
 

A pal of mine and his wife, both in their 70s, neither in brilliant health, are ‘first backup’ for childcare for two young grand children, and they’ve already had to parachute-in for ten day blocks due to bubbles closing. I was there when they received the most recent call, and they looked as if an HGV had suddenly fallen on them.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Exactly the same as pre Covid. But a bit emptier.

 

Apart from they still have a few seats blocked off with tape. Time for that to go IMHO. People are standing up yet there are perfectly good seats taped out of use....

 

And a few people were still wearing masks, most have now ditched them. I was wearing one, only for appearances sake.  .....

 

 

You're not exactly selling it to me.

[adb968008]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

What's the collective view of train and bus travel at the moment? 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if UEFA is thinking the same thing about visiting the UK over the next two weeks ? Hosting several international matches right in the middle of a spike might not be the best of ideas and i’m sure a few foreign governments are thinking about this.

 

Our cases numbers are going to a attract global new following in the next two weeks, not sure how Boris is planning on spinning it all as good news yet, that’ll be as interesting to see as the international reaction, which we are starting to see.

 

I think this wave is going to be more of a very sharp spike myself, if testing and vaccines are doing what they should… but the case number will be a scary one.

 

I still wear high grade masks, and dettol wipes for the seat handles / tables when I travel anyway. 
However I might give public transport a miss for the next two weeks, let things have chance to settle, goes without saying i’m skipping public indoor spaces.

 

still squeaky bum time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by adb968008

[hayfield]

 

Depends where the infections are, the major outbreaks are in the north and Scotland, the south is up a bit, but still quite low

 

A surge of infections is expected on mainland Europe. The Delta variant is there, so far cases are low, but the politicians are getting edgy. Europe being a few weeks behind our curve and well behind our vaccination rate. I certainly hope they will be better off than in the last wave.  

[adb968008]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Depends where the infections are, the major outbreaks are in the north and Scotland, the south is up a bit, but still quite low

 

A surge of infections is expected on mainland Europe. The Delta variant is there, so far cases are low, but the politicians are getting edgy. Europe being a few weeks behind our curve and well behind our vaccination rate. I certainly hope they will be better off than in the last wave.  

Dont be too confident, between Europe and Scotland is the south,  that “it wont get us” thinking has bitten the south twice before.

 

we are not immune.

 

The expectation of a rise in Europe might make the UK look a bit exposed if it doesn't happen, again statements of too much confidence.

To be fair, the governments made a lot of good decisions this year, much more than last year, so it can ride on the benefit of doubt. It could also demonstrate Pfizer vs AZ stengths / weaknesses given their relevant prevalence in each others jurisdictions too 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by adb968008

[monkeysarefun]

Shortly after this an unmasked bloke turned up and tried to lodge a "cease and desist" notice on the Police commissioner. As he was led away he exclaimed he had created the world.

 

If  you are going to have a COVID outbreak, may as well have a funny one.

Edited June 28, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I think this wave is going to be more of a very sharp spike myself

I think the maths is against a sharp spike, because even a really fast roll-out of vaccination can’t ‘stop it it’s tracks’. I think it’s more likely to be a rise to a plateau, then a long, slow decline.

 

It seems to me that the missing bit of HMG’s strategy is not keeping up the ‘hands, face, space, and fresh air’ messaging loud and clear, and showing no sign of being prepared to maintain it through the summer, because IMO those are ‘low cost’ things in terms of personal freedom, yet help significantly - it’s as if “it’s OK for loads of people to get ill, so long as the hospitals don’t fill up”, which is actually a second-rate prize to settle for, when a better prize, a lot fewer people getting ill, could be had for barely any effort.

 

We shall see.

[APOLLO]

I've not ben on a train or bus for a year and a half - but - today my twin girls had a day out with Uni friends post exams from Wigan to Blackpool. Just back home I asked them about social distancing etc. On the trains Wigan-Preston, Preston-Blackpool South most were wearing masks.

 

Blackpool pleasure beach was busy, no masks, well it is Blackpool !!

 

Coming home, they changed at Preston to a convenient though late running Glasgow - London Pendolino. Masks worn though not many passengers. Now I thought all Virgin  Avanti long distance were pre booked seat reservations mandatory social distanced etc. They had no problem just hopping on, and indeed their tickets say any train.

 

Ah well at least it was hot & sunny in Blackpool and they had a good time.

 

Brit15

Edited June 29, 2021 by APOLLO
Train op edited OOPS !!!

[Nearholmer]

‘Kiss me quick’ masks might sell in Blackpool, I suppose.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[woodenhead]

19 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

I've not ben on a train or bus for a year and a half - but - today my twin girls had a day out with Uni friends post exams from Wigan to Blackpool. Just back home I asked them about social distancing etc. On the trains Wigan-Preston, Preston-Blackpool South most were wearing masks.

 

Blackpool pleasure beach was busy, no masks, well it is Blackpool !!

 

Coming home, they changed at Preston to a convenient though late running Virgin Glasgow - London Pendolino. Masks worn though not many passengers. Now I thought all Virgin long distance were pre booked seat reservations mandatory social distanced etc. They had no problem just hopping on, and indeed their tickets say any train.

 

Ah well at least it was hot & sunny in Blackpool and they had a good time.

 

Brit15

It's not Virgin now Apollo, it's Avanti.

 

You don't have to book, but you can be turned away from boarding a train that is at capacity.

 

There are more trains running now so there is greater capacity.