Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[MJI]

46 minutes ago, alastairq said:

All of which goes to demonstrate how unfairly Civil Servants are looked upon by the rest of our society?

 

Without a Civil Service, our society as we know it would collapse.

 

Neither are the majority of Civil Servants paid exorbitantly. Not all of us had knighthoods, or worked to political masters. Yet, mention one is a retired Civil Servant, and immediately there is a preconceived idea of what we did, or how well off we are.

 

The only 'Civil' servants one see's are in Yes Minister.

The rest of us proles in the Civil Service were, and probably still are, very UNcivil servants.

Who all work within an Employment Contract , the terms of which would make the average private sector worker blanche at the prospect. [ That is, is one actually bothered to read them properly?]

Imagine getting sacked for not buying a bicycle, when one was supposed to buy a bicycle?

 

Bicycle purchase, that sounds totally illogical?

 

TBH I would not get employed like that, or I would get sacked.

[Steamport Southport]

This says it all about Ministers.

 

Here today, gone tomorrow.

 

 

Another willing participant will be in your place soon trying to slide up the greasy pole as Yes Minister called it.

 

 

 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Resigning for having an affair goes back in the Conservative Party at least as far as Cecil Parkinson in the 1980s. And there were no other issues at the time either AFAIK.

 

There have been a string of public officials caught this way, including doctors in senior administrative positions, advisers and politicians. There seem to be a lot of people around government circles who think the rules are for others and not themselves.

[Hobby]

It goes back hundreds of years before that I think you'll find! Perhaps being "holier than thou" only goes back to then... I wonder how many of those having a gloat have done the same or worse, most I suspect. 

[Nearholmer]

Look up “whited sepulchre” to see how far back hypocrisy goes.

[alastairq]

19 hours ago, MJI said:

 

Bicycle purchase, that sounds totally illogical?

 

TBH I would not get employed like that, or I would get sacked.

The bicycle reference was to a long-gone  financial offer from a part of govt, regarding getting folks onto bicycles.

It hit folk I knew harder than anyone would have ever believed, as when it was mooted by reps, the small print was largely glossed over, and managers failed to monitor what was essentially a very cheap loan for transport.  However, that didn't prevent extreme disciplinary action being conducted, once the lid had been lifted..

All very sordid really, in many ways...on both sides.

Edited June 28, 2021 by alastairq
micro google decided I should say summat else entirely]

[Fat Controller]

18 minutes ago, Hobby said:

It goes back hundreds of years before that I think you'll find! Perhaps being "holier than thou" only goes back to then... I wonder how many of those having a gloat have done the same or worse, most I suspect. 

'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone' goes back about a couple of thousand years, I believe

 

[dave750t]

21 minutes ago, Hobby said:

It goes back hundreds of years before that I think you'll find! Perhaps being "holier than thou" only goes back to then... I wonder how many of those having a gloat have done the same or worse, most I suspect. 

The thing is, those gloaters haven't been ordering millions of people not to do what they are doing.

[APOLLO]

 

 

 

Brit15

[Steamport Southport]

33 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

 

 

Brit15

 

The problem is he was looking for the elbow....

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

For information.

Bernard

 

Dr Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said: “People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves. Vaccine alone won’t stop community transmission.

“People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene, the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you’re vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing.”

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Andrew Marr was talking on Tv about having caught it himself after double vaccination, and described it as ‘bloody’, rather than ‘mild’. The prof he was talking to said that he knew several people in their 50s who had experienced the same - illness only a tiny bit short of needing to go to hospital.

 

For my money, ‘the basics’ have slipped a bit too far in places, and I’m anything but comfortable about eating indoors in a restaurant/cafe for instance. We did yesterday, but I can’t say I felt at all relaxed about it.

Doesn’t help that the weather is so blasted un-summery, which makes eating outdoors a bit of a punishment, rather than the pleasure it should be at this time of year.
 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

For information.

Bernard

 

Dr Mariangela Simao, WHO assistant director-general for access to medicines and health products, said: “People cannot feel safe just because they had the two doses. They still need to protect themselves. Vaccine alone won’t stop community transmission.

“People need to continue to use masks consistently, be in ventilated spaces, hand hygiene, the physical distance, avoid crowding. This still continues to be extremely important, even if you’re vaccinated when you have a community transmission ongoing.”

Since the virus isn't going to vanish are they suggesting that should be the norm forevermore? Because that's won't wash.

[alastairq]

I think the crux of the matter is, those of us who feel vulnerable, need to change our social ambitions?

 

In other words, if covid is a worry, stay away from other people? 

Certainly avoid large gatherings, crowded indoor areas, gucci venues, restaurants [where one could probably cook the same meals better oneself?]....Avoid banal stuff like foreign holidays ?

[ I am amazed how society has changed over this holiday issue! Back in the late 60's, when I had to 'work' in foreign places, I had to be stuffed full of jabs for yellow this, or black that, truly fearsome diseases indeed.....all stamped up in my UK documentation ....I never had a passport back then...]

 

Good excuse to avoid those fake-tanned , hail-fellow-well-met rellies, especially when out of brussels sprout season?

Let the rest of what passes for humanity get on with it all?

 

I've tried it...it worked with flu very well!

 

 

[hayfield]

6 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I think the crux of the matter is, those of us who feel vulnerable, need to change our social ambitions?

 

In other words, if covid is a worry, stay away from other people? 

Certainly avoid large gatherings, crowded indoor areas, gucci venues, restaurants [where one could probably cook the same meals better oneself?]....Avoid banal stuff like foreign holidays ?

[ I am amazed how society has changed over this holiday issue! Back in the late 60's, when I had to 'work' in foreign places, I had to be stuffed full of jabs for yellow this, or black that, truly fearsome diseases indeed.....all stamped up in my UK documentation ....I never had a passport back then...]

 

Good excuse to avoid those fake-tanned , hail-fellow-well-met rellies, especially when out of brussels sprout season?

Let the rest of what passes for humanity get on with it all?

 

I've tried it...it worked with flu very well!

 

 

 

All along we have been told that in the end like all other nasty dieses we will have to live with it, once medicines are able to control it. Living in the south east of the country and in a rural setting we are quite protected (but nor exempt) from the worst it can do. My sister lives in Milton Keynes, infection rates there are very much higher, but they have a lower death rate. Which proves with the correct measures in place life can go on

 

Recently I have eaten out several times and I can say with the exception of wearing a mask to enter and leave life has been normal. OK the waiters have worn masks and we had a few days stay over a pub and it was a bit strange having to wear a mask along an empty stairs and corridor. but unless you live in one of the worst affected areas the chances of being with an infected person long enough is quite low

 

Look at the two English footballers who were in close proximity with a fellow club member who tested positive the following day, seemingly they and his fellow Scottish team mates never contracted it. But that is not saying do silly things, be sensible and take reasonable precautions, especially when in enclosed spaces and possibly with people who you may think are unvaccinated 

 

Certainly I will be accepting the flu jab this autumn and any booster if offered, keeping away from foreign holidays as well. Especially as they are concerned about a new wave with the Delta variant, and apparently the latest variant is the Delta Plus according to one report

[monkeysarefun]

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

the chances of being with an infected person long enough is quite low

Regarding the current delta outbreak Inner Sydney is experiencing at the moment, CCTV footage in Bondi Junction Westfield's shopping centre  shows the exact moments  person 0 infects person 1 and person 2. Person 1 is sitting at an outside cafe as person 0 walks past, person 2 passes by person 0 in a shop. Both interactions were of seconds duration but have resulted in all of the Sydney region being shutdown for 2 weeks, and the rest of the country on notice of imminent lockdowns. 

[Crisis Rail]

31 minutes ago, alastairq said:

I think the crux of the matter is, those of us who feel vulnerable, need to change our social ambitions?

 

In other words, if covid is a worry, stay away from other people? 

Certainly avoid large gatherings, crowded indoor areas, gucci venues, restaurants [where one could probably cook the same meals better oneself?]....Avoid banal stuff like foreign holidays ?

[ I am amazed how society has changed over this holiday issue! Back in the late 60's, when I had to 'work' in foreign places, I had to be stuffed full of jabs for yellow this, or black that, truly fearsome diseases indeed.....all stamped up in my UK documentation ....I never had a passport back then...]

 

Good excuse to avoid those fake-tanned , hail-fellow-well-met rellies, especially when out of brussels sprout season?

Let the rest of what passes for humanity get on with it all?

 

I've tried it...it worked with flu very well!

 

 

 

Does this include our hobby's exhibition circuit?

 

Some say it really is time to get out of the Trenches.

[hayfield]

3 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

Regarding the current delta outbreak Inner Sydney is experiencing at the moment, CCTV footage in Bondi Junction Westfield's shopping centre  shows the exact moments  person 0 infects person 1 and person 2. Person 1 is sitting at an outside cafe as person 0 walks past, person 2 passes by person 0 in a shop. Both interactions were of seconds duration but have resulted in all of the Sydney region being shutdown for 2 weeks, and the rest of the country on notice of imminent lockdowns. 

 

We are being told that you have to be in close proximity with a person for a prolonged time, especially when outside

 

I see that there is a report today stating that there are now several unrelated outbreaks occurring

Edited June 28, 2021 by hayfield

[monkeysarefun]

1 minute ago, hayfield said:

 

We are being told that you have to be in close proximity with a person for a prolonged time, especially when outside

 

I see that there is a report today stating that there are now several unrelated outbreaks occurring

Regarding Sydney, there are a couple of cases that contact tracers haven't yet been able to tie to existing known cases. Today there were 18 new cases but all but one were traced to known cases so it hasn't broken out to a large degree yet and we are all locked down to help, plus it's school holidays so schools aren't going to spread it.

In a positive note, one birthday party spreader event illustrated the efficacy of vaccines, 10 unvaccinated people all got it, the other 7 ( I think) were all vaccinated, none of them got it. Whether they can still pass it on anyway is another question.

[alastairq]

5 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Does this include our hobby's exhibition circuit?

 

 

 Why ever not?

 

If one feels the need to visit an exhibition, with all the close contact that might entail..then that is one's personal choice, if it overrides concerns about becoming infected...or, passing an infection on to someone else, near & dear?

 

It isn't something that concerns me personally, as I didn't attend exhibitions very much, if at all.  

 

Note, I am emphasising, the personal nature of precautions, rather than the [inter] national impositions.

[alastairq]

11 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

Some say it really is time to get out of the Trenches.

 

Leave your trechnes if you wish to. 

 

Just don't make it compulsory!

 

Because if it does become compulsory to mix with gert crowds of unwashed, then I might take this complaint thing up to a whole new level, with society!

[Crisis Rail]

7 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 

Leave your trechnes if you wish to. 

 

Just don't make it compulsory!

 

Because if it does become compulsory to mix with gert crowds of unwashed, then I might take this complaint thing up to a whole new level, with society!

 

Local Model Shop has gone for good. Freedom is well overdue and need a few bits and pieces -  I'll risk it.

 

As for the virus..... 

 

[alastairq]

5 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

Freedom is well overdue

 Never lacked it here.

[Crisis Rail]

1 minute ago, alastairq said:

 Never lacked it here.

 

Lucky.

 

Wherever "here" is?

[Dunsignalling]

45 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Does this include our hobby's exhibition circuit?

 

Some say it really is time to get out of the Trenches.

Some will, others won't. It will depend on how safe (or otherwise) we individually feel about attending exhibitions, or any other mass gatherings. I've been assessing my past regular haunts (including exhibition venues) and some I clearly rate as "safer" than others.

 

I attended a collectors' fair a week ago yesterday at the Westpoint showground near Exeter, and felt no qualms at all, but it's a big building, traders were widely spaced and punters were masked and behaving considerately. For me, high ceilings and good ventilation instil confidence, but I'm not yet ready for the abolition of both masks and social distancing in less spacious settings.

 

No doubt HMG have loads of experts working out the economic consequences of differing levels of caution persisting because people balance what is "allowed" against what they consider prudent.

 

However those sums add up, "normal", even in 2022, ain't gonna look the same as the 2019 version. 

 

John 

 

Edited June 28, 2021 by Dunsignalling