Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[Hobby]

8 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Really, our strategy  isnt  any  different  to most other countries strategies , the only difference being that we shut our borders so that we wouldn't have endless new sources and variants  coming in to deal with - what I dont understand is countries  trying to control a virus while still letting people in and out willy nilly.

 

I'd change that to "were able to shut our borders"... I agree that perhaps we didn't close down quick enough (with hindsight) but as we've discussed many times before the two countries (Aus and the UK) cannot be compared very easily. Closing borders and keeping people out is much easier for Aus and NZ where the border is much less porous than the UK. Hence why the Aus strategy that Monkeys refers to will work for them I doubt it would for us, though I did think that the NZ strategy was similar to Aus, thanks for the clarification, Monkeys.

 

I've said it before but I'll repeat it again, that I feel that Covid is something we have to learn to live with, I do not feel it can be eliminated, there would appear to be two strategies that will help mitigate things, vaccines and the natural spread through the population which can then develop antibodies. Hence my earlier comment.

[hayfield]

I think every country thought they could as before contain the worst effects of the virus. In fact many countries were very good at initially stopping it, some were aided by geographical factors

 

Seemingly the delta variant is much better at beating these defences, as is the way various methods of using the vaccine, plus both reporting methods and the amount of testing makes comparisons difficult

 

We have been told that vaccines do not necessarily greatly reduce the likely hood of infection, but far better at reducing its most serious effects

 

Then we have factors like the time between vaccinations can increase the protection, having two different types seems beneficial to most. We now also know in contracting covid the side effects are similar to the vaccines but many times more likely with the virus than the vaccine

 

Now there is a debate as to whether it is beneficial to catch a mild dose of the virus than have a booster. 

 

With countries like New Zealand and Australia they will have to decide how to manage this transition, shutting the door will not work for ever

 

Given we are testing at least 3 times the number of people than most similar countries naturally we are picking up more infected people and more people who have died with covid infections irrespective or whether covid was the deciding factor 

 

Hopefully covid is being reduced to something like influenza, for most an irritant. For those who get it really bad we need to keep improving the treatments 

[Andy Hayter]

9 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

Not referring to you personally Andy but I really don't understand the questioning of the Australian 'strategy' -yes  we locked our borders, that to me is sensible - other than that we are just doing pretty much what everyone else is but  perhaps a bit more warily.

 

Our strategy was basically intended to stop new virus sources from  entering the country while we lowered the in-house numbers enough to ensure that the virus was contained rather then  spreading uncontrollably and overwhelming the health system. 

 

  Unlike New Zealand  total elimination was not the intended Australian endgame, the fact it happenned was just a happy accident and meant that we could live on our little bubble pretty much normally until someone invented a vaccine, then we'd all get vaccinated enough to a sufficient level that we could integrate back into the world again.

 

Just like everyone else.

 

Really, our strategy  isnt  any  different  to most other countries strategies , the only difference being that we shut our borders so that we wouldn't have endless new sources and variants  coming in to deal with - what I dont understand is countries  trying to control a virus while still letting people in and out willy nilly.

 

Zero covid cases is not our longterm goal, but until we are vaccinned to a level that minimises spread and lowers the death rate we will have quarantining, face masks and social distancing.  Outbreaks even after this point will still be met by isolation and maybe localised  lockdowns, I cant see us ever just going back to completely  pre-covid life here for a long time to come. That just seems prudent to me -  rather than flinging open the  doors  and just seeing what happens.

 

Recall during much of 2020  a vaccine was never a certainty and it was definitely not imagined that there would be so many   developed  so successfully so quickly so locking down the borders was the only method to keep numbers down and stop the spread.  Imagine where most countries would be now if there were no vaccines and the delta virus running rampant. 

I know, it would be like Alabama or Mississippi but much  worse.

 

Oh, and  our vaccine rollout was a bit poo for a  bit but we are finally on track to hit 80% nationwide in a couple of months and  then we'll be back over there whinging about the warm beer and the rain.

 

I don't particularly disagree with anything you say.  I don't even think your country's attitude to vaccination has been overly bad.  In the absence of any immediate threat there was no need to rush vaccination.

 

However, I still don't see what the exit strategy is.  At some stage - next year, the year after or later - movement of people will have to be relaxed - if for no other reason than to allow all those Australians outside the country the ability to return.  

 

We have a virus that is endemic.  We have a virus that mutates (as many do).  There will therefore be a never ending threat of a new variant and therefore, by your description of the protective measures in use today, a good reason to keep control in place.

 

Somewhere, somewhen, something will have to give and I am not sure how Aus and NZ are going to be able to handle that.

[monkeysarefun]

7 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

Somewhere, somewhen, something will have to give and I am not sure how Aus and NZ are going to be able to handle that.

 

We aren't North Korea so do not plan to stay locked away until Covid goes away, or to maintain a Covid free community once the vaccination rate reaches a determined milestone - that seems to be a common misapprehension.

 

This is the federal government's plan to ease restrictions and reopen the international border. It is dependant upon vaccination rates, hospitalisation numbers and the ongoing overseas situation.

 

(The article is  around 6 weeks old so the quoted  vaccination rates are out of date)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-07-02/covid-lockdown-vaccination-phases-national-cabinet/100262808

Edited August 28, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[MarkC]

I travelled to Southern Holland to rejoin my ship last Monday, the 23rd.

 

Usual mask wearing at Newcastle Airport, on the flight to Amsterdam & getting out of Amsterdam airport. After that, things changed.

 

Just after leaving the airport, my taxi driver got a call to say that the ship was now delayed 24 hours, due to port congestion, & I was to go to a hotel in Flushing. At the hotel, whilst the perspex screens were still in place at reception, after that, everything was pretty much as it was prior to March 2020. No masks, one could sit at the bar, move around freely...

 

Also, on Friday of last week, the 20th, I visited a village pub close to home. Again, no masks required, one could go to the bar to order one's beer etc etc.

 

Light at the end of the tunnel? I do hope so.

Edited August 28, 2021 by MarkC

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

I travelled to Southern Holland to rejoin my ship last Monday, the 23rd.

 

Usual mask wearing at Newcastle Airport, on the flight to Amsterdam & getting out of Amsterdam airport. After that, things changed.

 

Just after leaving the airport, my taxi driver got a call to say that the ship was now delayed 24 hours, due to port congestion, & I was to go to a hotel in Flushing. At the hotel, whilst the perspex screens were still in place at reception, after that, everything was pretty much as it was prior to March 2020. No masks, one could sit at the bar, move around freely...

 

Also, on Friday of last week, the 20th, I visited a village pub close to home. Again, no masks required, one could go to the bar to order one's beer etc etc.

 

Light at the end of the tunnel? I do hope so.

Not down here, just been announced masks should be worn as per last year due to the sudden increase in cases, obviously with the massive influx of holiday makers over the past weeks, waiting for official announcement if they ever commit to it.

[Nearholmer]

Here in middle England, I've noticed a shift back towards masking this week. It had fallen away very noticably, almost completely, except in the few shops that have made clear that they are serious about it, but I'm sure I'm not dreaming when I say that a higher percentage of people are "masking up" as soon as they enter enclosed shopping centres and shops again, almost to the level when it was compulsory (which was by no means 100%, of course). 

 

I do wonder whether the news that you can still catch it after "double jabbing" has sunk in, or whether everyone knows someone who has got/had it, and heard that even a mild dose isnt great fun.

 

One of our friends is coming through it now. Mid-40s, fit as a fiddle, she had a very bad reaction to the first dose of vaccine, visit to emergency centre etc., and was advised not to have the second. Having the caught it, she was pretty poorly for about a week, and is now "feeble and bored", still in bed half way through the second week.

[Dunsignalling]

46 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Not down here, just been announced masks should be worn as per last year due to the sudden increase in cases, obviously with the massive influx of holiday makers over the past weeks, waiting for official announcement if they ever commit to it.

Just a thought. Now we are top of the charts for Covid rates; if Devon and Cornwall were countries instead of counties, would anybody be allowed to holiday down here? 

 

John

Edited August 28, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[AY Mod]

16 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

if Devon and Cornwall were countries instead of counties, would anybody be allowed to holiday down here? 

 

We can make the West Country red and not let them back up country?

[John Isherwood]

26 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

We can make the West Country red and not let them back up country?

 

Works for me - so long as the 'newly wed and nearly dead brigade' are banned from entering Cornwall as soon as the schools go back!

 

They should have put up barriers on the A30 and A38 months ago - but then half of Westminster wouldn't have been able to have a holiday!

 

(... and if you've ever been to Rock and / or Polzeath at this time of year, you'll know that I'm not exaggerating)!

 

John Isherwood.

[boxbrownie]

11 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Works for me - so long as the 'newly wed and nearly dead brigade' are banned from entering Cornwall as soon as the schools go back!

 

They should have put up barriers on the A30 and A38 months ago - but then half of Westminster wouldn't have been able to have a holiday!

 

(... and if you've ever been to Rock and / or Polzeath at this time of year, you'll know that I'm not exaggerating)!

 

John Isherwood.

We’ve stuck firmly to our own little beach here, no parking, toilets, sweet/ice cream shop just beach……but still we get a few stalwart visitors who have found it before, parking up the lanes and walking down, thankfully the most I’ve counted on it this year was about thirty people one very hot and sunny Saturday (must be locals as sat turnover day for most holiday makers).

 

But we are really worried about the sudden rise, three of us in the house all vulnerable (two extremely) so we dread having to go into town occasionally when needs must.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Hroth]

I never believed the "Freedom Day" hype, and I've stuck with masks and trying to maintain social distancing in enclosed spaces.  Being "double jabbed" just means that it mitigates an infection, rather than prevents it.

 

Hey ho, we're in for a winter of fun...

 

[Crisis Rail]

39 minutes ago, Hroth said:

I never believed the "Freedom Day" hype, and I've stuck with masks and trying to maintain social distancing in enclosed spaces.  Being "double jabbed" just means that it mitigates an infection, rather than prevents it.

 

Hey ho, we're in for a winter of fun...

 

 

So  - when are you coming out of your trench?

[John Isherwood]

58 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

We’ve stuck firmly to our own little beach here, no parking, toilets, sweet/ice cream shop just beach……

 

No such luck here - there's not a single spot with sand  that some Chelsea Tractor owner hasn't staked-out with endless windbreaks!

 

The current one-upmanship is who has the biggest trolley with which to transport all their beach clobber to their chosen territory!

 

It is incredible how much competition, expenditure and stress goes into having a 'relaxing' holiday.

 

To cap it all, it's impossible to get a booking to eat out because the second home owners block book restaurants at the start of the season - often several different restaurants per evening - so that they have a choice of where to eat. Pity the poor restaurant owners who end up with dozens of 'no shows'! Some restaurants now take a deposit, or operate a 'first come, first served' system.

 

Roll on the end of the school holidays!

 

John Isherwood.

[Hroth]

12 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

So  - when are you coming out of your trench?

 

When the whizz-bangs aren't landing so closely.

 

Seriously, as "immunity" for even the double-jabbed seems to be wearing off, when a booster programme emerges and people realise this is going to be around for a heck of a long time and will never be defeated. Rather like flu and the common cold.

 

Perhaps the situation will improve once the anti-vaxxers and mouth breathers have all died off?

 

[Hobby]

What's a "mouth breather"? 

[Crisis Rail]

26 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

When the whizz-bangs aren't landing so closely.

 

Seriously, as "immunity" for even the double-jabbed seems to be wearing off, when a booster programme emerges and people realise this is going to be around for a heck of a long time and will never be defeated. Rather like flu and the common cold.

 

Perhaps the situation will improve once the anti-vaxxers and mouth breathers have all died off?

 

 

Father used to say.

 

Thas' gotta dee 'o summat.

 

Life is a risk but not a rehearsal.

[Crisis Rail]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

We’ve stuck firmly to our own little beach here.

 

 

Oh please do tell

[Bernard Lamb]

Anybody else booked their flu jab yet?

One of the big pharmacy chains has started taking bookings for next month.

Bernard

[kevpeo]

Yep, seems like all my 55+ friends have been 'invited'. Seems earlier than normal. Kev.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

No such luck here - there's not a single spot with sand  that some Chelsea Tractor owner hasn't staked-out with endless windbreaks!

 

The current one-upmanship is who has the biggest trolley with which to transport all their beach clobber to their chosen territory!

 

It is incredible how much competition, expenditure and stress goes into having a 'relaxing' holiday.

 

To cap it all, it's impossible to get a booking to eat out because the second home owners block book restaurants at the start of the season - often several different restaurants per evening - so that they have a choice of where to eat. Pity the poor restaurant owners who end up with dozens of 'no shows'! Some restaurants now take a deposit, or operate a 'first come, first served' system.

 

Roll on the end of the school holidays!

 

John Isherwood.

I have noticed the “beach trolleys” with the huge balloon tyres being hauled through town, as you say so much effort for a relaxing holiday .

 

One of our neighbours has a restaurant and she now only takes a booking with a deposit, and she makes sure they know it’s non refundable, she had lots of no shows at the beginning of the season.

 

Our next door neighbour owns the chandlery and sold out of wetsuits and body boards weeks ago, she said it’s been the best year for sales in ages.

[boxbrownie]

54 minutes ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Oh please do tell

Not a chance 

Edited August 29, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Crisis Rail said:

 

Father used to say.

 

Thas' gotta dee 'o summat.

 

Life is a risk but not a rehearsal.

True, but if the past 18 months has taught us anything, it's that some of the things we used to accept as "normal" are just too trivial to be worth taking the chance for. Especially when on holiday, It's surprising how much time-frittering goes on in between the worthwhile/really enjoyable bits....

 

Guess which category mooching around shopping malls or narrow seaside "grockle trap" streets shoulder-to-shoulder with several hundred overly carefree "Spanish Refugees" falls into?

 

I doubt I'm the only one who has spent some of lockdown assessing what I really want to get back to doing a.s.a.p., set against activities that I'll happily postpone until it's much quieter. 

 

John

[John Isherwood]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

I have noticed the “beach trolleys” with the huge balloon tyres being hauled through town, as you say so much effort for a relaxing holiday .

 

One of our neighbours has a restaurant and she now only takes a booking with a deposit, and she makes sure they know it’s non refundable, she had lots of no shows at the beginning of the season.

 

Our next door neighbour owns the chandlery and sold out of wetsuits and body boards weeks ago, she said it’s been the best year for sales in ages.

 

Unfortunately for the residents, "the best year for sales in ages" equals going from the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK to the highest.

 

They'll all go home soon, and leave us their Covid legacy for the winter. My wife has been waiting several years now to see a specialist - what chance when our only major hospital is having to deal with imported Covid!

 

John Isherwood.

[boxbrownie]

31 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Unfortunately for the residents, "the best year for sales in ages" equals going from the lowest incidence of Covid in the UK to the highest.

 

They'll all go home soon, and leave us their Covid legacy for the winter. My wife has been waiting several years now to see a specialist - what chance when our only major hospital is having to deal with imported Covid!

 

John Isherwood.

Absolutely correct John, our neighbour is in her 80’s and stays at home while her staff run the shop, she is poop scared of going into town.

 

As for the hospital I have been waiting over a year now for my second knee replacement but I do have to visit the hospital every two weeks for treatment and have been since early February, it’s now getting a bit worrying since last week’s announcement about the hospitals special measures they are back into.