Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

Can't say as I'm all that impressed with the rollout locally. Took an age to get a first dose because clinics were popping up without notice, only being advertised on the day via social media (which if I did see was usually after the event!). I eventually got lucky and got done in the local Dolgellau leisure centre. I'm due my 2nd jab now, and thankfully online booking has now been introduced so I can at least plan ahead - except that there quite simply are no clinics outside of Bangor running. That's a 110 mile round trip for me, which by bus will need an entire day off work as I'd have to leave at 8.20 to be back for 5, assuming I can even get a mid day slot!  

Can't you get it done locally by your GP or pharmacy? Worth asking to avoid that rigmarole.

 

John

 

 

[hayfield]

14 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

 

 

The blame for Africa's slow take up of the AZ vaccine is laid at the feet of Macron and to a lesser extent Merkel.  Their political posturing over AZ has suggested to a lot of African countries that they are receiving a 2nd rate  vaccine.

I did read 2 articles over the weekend detailing just how much profit Pziser(?), Moderna etc have made in comparison to AZ, which suggested to me that some Countries have put the profit margins of their pharma companies above the health of their citizens. 

 

Reminds me of my daughters attitude, unless its expensive its second rate

 

I had a letter a few months back from Herts NHS stating my tablets were being changed to a cheaper make saving the NHS quite a lot of money, after talking to the pharmacist a few weeks later they failed to tell me it was also very much safer !!. To me the latter statement is far more reassuring 

[Neil]

I believe the truth behind the low levels of vaccination is contained in these two BBC reports:

 

Covid-19 Africa: What is happening with vaccine supplies?

 

Covid-19 vaccines: Why some African states can't use their vaccines

 

Vaccine hesitancy is really a side issue compared to the supply and logistical issues. The early EU reluctance over the AZ vaccine only a very small part of that hesitancy.

[tender]

On 07/08/2021 at 12:09, Neil said:

 

Good news from the EU six member states have now overtaken the UK's vaccination rates for the double-jabbed. Malta is way ahead with Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland all exceeding the UK's total; it may well be that you're safer at one of these holiday destinations than at home. Also of interest is that Italy and the Netherlands are close to the UK; your delayed trip to Italy might be a good prospect for next year.

 

According to the BBC website the UK currently is 75% Adults fully vaccinated which is way above 5 of the 6 EU countries quoted (apart from Malta@80+%, the others around 60%).

 

"More than 47 million people - about 89% of all UK adults - have now received a first dose of a vaccine and nearly 40 million people, or around 75% of all adults, have had a second."

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Early EU reluctance over the AZ vaccine only a very small part of that hesitancy.

 

I don't agree with that. The AZ vaccine is by far the cheapest (75% cheaper than its direct competitors) which makes it the most affordable for third world countries so in theory it should be the go-to vaccine. But its not, and that is  primarily because the (subsequently proved) grossly unfair criticism by several EU leaders and others seriously damaged the reputation of the vaccine which has lead to a reluctance of many countries to use it. The damaged reputation is a much larger reason for the hesitancy that you seem to think. 

[Nick C]

4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

 

The blame for Africa's slow take up of the AZ vaccine is laid at the feet of Macron and to a lesser extent Merkel.  Their political posturing over AZ has suggested to a lot of African countries that they are receiving a 2nd rate  vaccine.

Not to mention Von Der Leyen and Rupert Murdoch...

[Neil]

1 hour ago, tender said:

 

According to the BBC website the UK currently is 75% Adults fully vaccinated which is way above 5 of the 6 EU countries quoted (apart from Malta@80+%, the others around 60%).

 

"More than 47 million people - about 89% of all UK adults - have now received a first dose of a vaccine and nearly 40 million people, or around 75% of all adults, have had a second."

 

The figures reported on by the Guardian were as a percentage of total population whereas that in the BBC report were as a percentage of the adult population. Also taking a look towards the bottom of the BBC report at the total vaccine doses offered per 100 people Denmark leads the UK by a similar margin to that expressed in the Our World In Data on-line science report from the Guardian article. Though we were quick out of the blocks with the vaccine roll out it looks as though the rest of Europe is either catching us up, caught us up or drawing ahead a bit with Malta drawing ahead a lot. Good news for all of us I feel.

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

 

I don't agree with that. The AZ vaccine is by far the cheapest (75% cheaper than its direct competitors) which makes it the most affordable for third world countries so in theory it should be the go-to vaccine. But its not, and that is  primarily because the (subsequently proved) grossly unfair criticism by several EU leaders and others seriously damaged the reputation of the vaccine which has lead to a reluctance of many countries to use it. The damaged reputation is a much larger reason for the hesitancy that you seem to think. 

 Thats directly noticeable here. Our vaccine rate is pretty poor, 17% fully vaccinated and 36% with first dose. 

 

Despite that, and despite current small outbreaks of Delta that have shutdown several regional  towns andmajor  cities (Sydney is in lockdown week 6 or something) they still cant give the stuff away.

 

  After the clotting scares the government limited AZ to the over 60's, and with insufficient Pfizer that meant a vast bulk of people had no access to vaccines. They initially changed that to over 40 or something, and now say anyone over 18 can get it but the previous limitations and continual bad press  has made everyone suss. Deaths from clotting are given prominence, there was another last week of a woman in her 30's or 40's. 

 

As a result the AZ is being shunned and you could pretty much walk in off the street today and get a shot while there is a wait of several weeks for a Pfizer one .

 

We make AZ locally and have offered it to smaller neighbouring countries for free and no one here is complaining, on the other hand there are huge cries if one  states latest shipment of Pfizer is threatened with being reallocated to a state with perceived greater needs, or whenever  NSW regional supplies are proposed to be redirected to Sydney.  They hate that, out in the bush!

Edited August 9, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Hobby]

I nearly mentioned Aus, Monkeys, when i posted originally... We've now vaccinated millions of people with the AZ vaccine and i suspect at least half of them will be under 60 and they are not dropping like flies. It's about time people stopped using the clotting excuse, especially as Pfizer and other vaccines have also been linked to clots... Every authorised drug has a risk but it's an incredibly small risk.

Edited August 10, 2021 by Hobby

[Andy Hayter]

And what is particularly pertinent is that the chances of having a clotting problem as a result of catching the virus are hundreds of times higher.

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, tender said:

 

According to the BBC website the UK currently is 75% Adults fully vaccinated which is way above 5 of the 6 EU countries quoted (apart from Malta@80+%, the others around 60%).

 

"More than 47 million people - about 89% of all UK adults - have now received a first dose of a vaccine and nearly 40 million people, or around 75% of all adults, have had a second."

 

The trouble is how people look at statistics, plus everybody's reporting structure may differ plus the time between first and second injections

 

What we can take comfort from is the shear number of Europeans who are now vaccinated, simply as these are our nearest neighbours, though eastern European states seem to be lagging behind, next up will be helping developing nations, but as well as the shear cost its the logistics that is a major issue

 

We also need to do something about the areas in this country where take up is lagging behind. Certainly making it easier to get vaccinated is one area being targeted with the younger element. we are not far off 90% of adults having some form of protection, the initial expectation I seem to remember was 75%

 

Next up will be the booster jabs. 

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Neil said:

 

The figures reported on by the Guardian were as a percentage of total population whereas that in the BBC report were as a percentage of the adult population. Also taking a look towards the bottom of the BBC report at the total vaccine doses offered per 100 people Denmark leads the UK by a similar margin to that expressed in the Our World In Data on-line science report from the Guardian article. Though we were quick out of the blocks with the vaccine roll out it looks as though the rest of Europe is either catching us up, caught us up or drawing ahead a bit with Malta drawing ahead a lot. Good news for all of us I feel.

 

Matching up what one country does in isolation. is misleading, as was comparing countries who have shorter periods between 1st and second jabs with those waiting longer. Science has told us having an 8 week gap between jabs gives a better protection than 3 weeks. But in some cases it may be better to have a less effective full course than waiting for the optimum time span. On the other hand having some protection is better than having none. No one decision is the best option. The main issue is that we all need to get the vaccination program done.

[APOLLO]

33 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I nearly mentioned Aus, Monkeys, when i posted originally... We've now vaccinated millions of people with the AZ vaccine and i suspect at least half of them will be under 60 and they are not dropping like flies. It's about time people stopped using the clotting excuse, especially as Pfizer and other vaccines have also been linked to clots... Every authorised drug has a risk but it's an incredibly small risk.

 

Follow the money - Pfizer costs a lot more than AZ. and Pfizer are going to increase prices.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1474739/eu-news-pfizer-vaccine-price-increase-latest-clement-beaune-biontech-delta-variant

 

Also, the travel Covid cost and postage / collection malarkey

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9877945/Covid-tests-FIVE-TIMES-cost-flights-Screening-expensive-return-journey-Europe.html

 

Brit15

[Neil]

14 hours ago, Hobby said:

 

I don't agree with that. The AZ vaccine is by far the cheapest (75% cheaper than its direct competitors) which makes it the most affordable for third world countries so in theory it should be the go-to vaccine. But its not, and that is  primarily because the (subsequently proved) grossly unfair criticism by several EU leaders and others seriously damaged the reputation of the vaccine which has lead to a reluctance of many countries to use it. The damaged reputation is a much larger reason for the hesitancy that you seem to think. 

 

I didn't expect you would.

 

However the article from the BBC I linked to clearly mentioned hesitancy due to batches of vaccine having to be destroyed due it reaching its use by date and that setting off a worry that out of date vaccines would be used. Also hesitancy has to be view against the background of extremely dubious medical experimentation that has gone on in Africa over the years.

 

The EU hesitancy over the AZ vaccine is a bit of a red herring in this context and I suspect comes from political prejudice rather than reality. 

 

 

[hayfield]

8 minutes ago, Neil said:

 

I didn't expect you would.

 

However the article from the BBC I linked to clearly mentioned hesitancy due to batches of vaccine having to be destroyed due it reaching its use by date and that setting off a worry that out of date vaccines would be used. Also hesitancy has to be view against the background of extremely dubious medical experimentation that has gone on in Africa over the years.

 

The EU hesitancy over the AZ vaccine is a bit of a red herring in this context and I suspect comes from political prejudice rather than reality. 

 

 

 

Dubious medical experiments have gone on for ever, I think we (and others) have used our military many times in the past for experiments, let alone medical experiments on the public ever since medicine has been practiced.

 

I think there is far more to it, perhaps more based mainly on customs and local practices that have developed over the centuries. Too much has been made of things which have happened in the past, both true and untrue in the past. If we (society) have been guilty of anything its not busting these incorrect myths, plus we have done too little with false claims on social media etc. In this case the experiments on the vaccine have already been done long ago.

 

Granted the spats between the EU and a few politicians exploiting the situation to favour their own political and commercial interests have hindered things, plus seemingly accepting side effects from some drugs and not others, which can cause mistrust or unnecessary concerns. But we should be past all this

[Hobby]

21 minutes ago, Neil said:

I didn't expect you would.

 

The EU hesitancy over the AZ vaccine is a bit of a red herring in this context and I suspect comes from political prejudice rather than reality. 

 

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ... The EU hesitancy and promoting false accusations has seriously damaged the reputation of the AZ vaccine which can clearly be seen in what's going on in Australia. My point was that the AZ vaccine was clearly the one most likely to be used in poorer parts of the world simply because of the cost but has been so damaged that it is unlikely to recover. Vaccine hesitancy is another issue, certainly in African countries, but that applies to all vaccines, cost is just as important to them and by ignoring the cheap one it will cause major issues in any roll out.

[chris p bacon]

26 minutes ago, Neil said:

The EU hesitancy over the AZ vaccine is a bit of a red herring in this context and I suspect comes from political prejudice rather than reality. 

 

It was noted in several African countries that Merkels first dose was AZ but the 2nd after clotgate was Moderna. That was seen as a lack of confidence in the AZ jab.

 

The reality is that the EU made the vaccine rollout a political football, from threatening to sue AZ to  claims of clotting it has definately damaged the vaccine rollout on a continent that would have benefited the most from the altruism of AZ. Now Africa will pay a high price in monetary and human terms for other vaccines.

[Quarryscapes]

18 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Can't you get it done locally by your GP or pharmacy? Worth asking to avoid that rigmarole.

 

John

 

 

 

My local GP doesn't appear to have been doing vaccinations at all, nor are any pharmacies that I know of. My Dad (60s) had to get his jabs through work and he is shielding. My in laws (70s) , also both shielding only got theirs after much phoning and nagging at the health board, both during  the period where we were supposedly into the 50s age group! The only surgery that I know is doing jabs is Nefyn, and I think that's because they're operating as a drop in clinic rather than just for the usual patients although they are not listed as a BCUHB drop in centre. The whole thing seems to rely on word of mouth here with very little clear communication coming from the horse's mouth. 

 

I've also discovered that my boss is refusing to be jabbed, so how this affects my return to work remains to be seen. The ironic upshot is he will be forced to miss the launch of his new car at the NEC because vaccinations will be required for all attendees! 

[APOLLO]

Yes money trumps human life and suffering. The AZ jab has been dissed by many in high places who only see $$$$$$$$$$$$$ 

 

Just wait till the COP 26 climate summit to see what us Brits will "Cop" for, meanwhile the USA, China, India etc pollute at will. Talk of China and Russia joining their military also - what a gift for mother earth.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1474743/World-War-3-China-Russia-military-drill-experts-spooked-West-US-Afghanistan-latest

 

The rampant greed of those that lead the world and their acolytes makes me physically sick.

 

Brit15

[MJI]

51 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

 

I've also discovered that my boss is refusing to be jabbed, so how this affects my return to work remains to be seen. The ironic upshot is he will be forced to miss the launch of his new car at the NEC because vaccinations will be required for all attendees! 

 

What will happen to where you work if your boss is NLA?

[MJI]

The side effects for the vaccines mainly appear to be similar to C19 but a lot less worse.

 

There has been a heart issue found with some Biontech vaccine recipients.

 

The same issue has been found but worse and more common with C19 victims.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Quarryscapes said:

 

My local GP doesn't appear to have been doing vaccinations at all, nor are any pharmacies that I know of. My Dad (60s) had to get his jabs through work and he is shielding. My in laws (70s) , also both shielding only got theirs after much phoning and nagging at the health board, both during  the period where we were supposedly into the 50s age group! The only surgery that I know is doing jabs is Nefyn, and I think that's because they're operating as a drop in clinic rather than just for the usual patients although they are not listed as a BCUHB drop in centre. The whole thing seems to rely on word of mouth here with very little clear communication coming from the horse's mouth. 

 

I've also discovered that my boss is refusing to be jabbed, so how this affects my return to work remains to be seen. The ironic upshot is he will be forced to miss the launch of his new car at the NEC because vaccinations will be required for all attendees! 

Sorry to hear the issues there, we have been much luckier here as our local surgery along with two others got together and organised the “jabbing centres” locally and we heard a few days ago that 91% of eligible patients at our surgery have had their double jabs.

[boxbrownie]

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Edited August 10, 2021 by boxbrownie
Double post

[boxbrownie]

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Edited August 10, 2021 by boxbrownie
Triple post!

[TheQ]

Round here I know of no surgeries, doing vaccine jabs,, all seem to in regional centres, ours was in a village hall covering an area of maybe a dozen surgeries. the next one up in the district was in a sports centre.. The only other thing I've seen used was a mobile bus unit, parked in a Tescos car park.. There were no takers as I walked past.