Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[Neil]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

.... The vast majority of holiday makers have decided to stay within the UK, simply because its too risky to go abroad. ...

 

Good news from the EU six member states have now overtaken the UK's vaccination rates for the double-jabbed. Malta is way ahead with Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland all exceeding the UK's total; it may well be that you're safer at one of these holiday destinations than at home. Also of interest is that Italy and the Netherlands are close to the UK; your delayed trip to Italy might be a good prospect for next year.

[rocor]

33 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Rather like the other Government official who has flown to over 30 countries during the pandemic to discuss of all things ironic - the fight against global warming.  We've all been working from home and using digital meetings, he has been treated to the best hotels around the world and slapping palms with people - currently in Brazil.

 

It is understandable that there would be a requirement for face to face meetings when negotiating trade deals, but while having discussions regarding the fight against global warming?

[hayfield]

40 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Rather like the other Government official who has flown to over 30 countries during the pandemic to discuss of all things ironic - the fight against global warming.  We've all been working from home and using digital meetings, he has been treated to the best hotels around the world and slapping palms with people - currently in Brazil.

 

Unlike many of the MP's from all party's who are at home with their feet up for a prolonged holiday, here we have a minister doing their job. No doubt if he did what you have suggested there would be another clown claiming he is doing nothing, or should get off his backside. 

 

During the summer there will be many MP's supposedly representing our country (even those in opposition)abroad on freebies or going on fact finding missions all across the world to find out what we already know. We need to go out and sell UK limited, build up relations with countries who are willing to trade with us. If only other large countries did as much as we are doing to protect the world, it would be a far better place.  

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

 

Good news from the EU six member states have now overtaken the UK's vaccination rates for the double-jabbed. Malta is way ahead with Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland all exceeding the UK's total; it may well be that you're safer at one of these holiday destinations than at home. Also of interest is that Italy and the Netherlands are close to the UK; your delayed trip to Italy might be a good prospect for next year.

 

Look at the infection rates abroad and here to that matter, most of these countries are far smaller. Germany, France and Italy are far better comparisons, but then you would expect the Guardian to be very selective and a bit loose with the facts, how many member states in the EU a bit more than 6 I think. However its good to see some European countries both catching the UK up and passing us, lets hope the remainder do the same, but what happened to the EU's equal vaccine distribution?

 

But this is hiding the facts that if you go abroad, there is no guarantee that you may not have to isolate upon your return (whether its Europe or anywhere else). If a person is happy to take this risk, please don't whinge when it goes wrong. Most feel the risk is far to great at the moment

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

 

Good news from the EU six member states have now overtaken the UK's vaccination rates for the double-jabbed. Malta is way ahead with Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland all exceeding the UK's total; it may well be that you're safer at one of these holiday destinations than at home. Also of interest is that Italy and the Netherlands are close to the UK; your delayed trip to Italy might be a good prospect for next year.

 

Look at the infection rates abroad and here to that matter, most of these countries are far smaller. Germany, France and Italy are far better comparisons, but then you would expect the Guardian to be very selective and a bit loose with the facts, how many member states in the EU a bit more than 6 I think. However its good to see some European countries both catching the UK up and passing us, lets hope the remainder do the same, but what happened to the EU's equal vaccine distribution?

 

Edit

 

UK figures are 73% of those eligible have been double vaccinated, nearly 89% single vaccinated and we are asking folk to wait longer between injections for greater protection, statistics can be twisted !!!

 

But this is hiding the facts that if you go abroad, there is no guarantee that you may not have to isolate upon your return (whether its Europe or anywhere else). If a person is happy to take this risk, please don't whinge when it goes wrong. Most feel the risk is far to great at the moment

Edited August 7, 2021 by hayfield

[Nearholmer]

the presence of a pandemic is bad enough without making it more unpleasant by doing the Mister and Misses Punch act with rolled-up copies our our most-hated newspapers - it makes my head hurt.

 

Cheerio Lads.

 

 

[AY Mod]

55 minutes ago, hayfield said:

you would expect the Guardian to be very selective and a bit loose with the facts,

 

Remember that bias issue I flagged up some weeks ago? Does other media not have it's own biases?

 

[hayfield]

 

You expect it with the comics, 

[rocor]

11 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Remember that bias issue I flagged up some weeks ago? Does other media not have it's own biases?

 

 

All newspapers will be well aware of the biases and preferences of their readership, and shape their content accordingly.

[AY Mod]

23 minutes ago, hayfield said:

You expect it with the comics, 

 

It was a TIC illustration that there will always be biases but you often criticise some for a left bias when it's very clear your bias is a different shade.

[Simon Lee]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

Unlike many of the MP's from all party's who are at home with their feet up for a prolonged holiday, here we have a minister doing their job. No doubt if he did what you have suggested there would be another clown claiming he is doing nothing, or should get off his backside. 

 

and if this hard working paragon of virtue brings back a different varient what then ?  is that an acceptable risk in your eyes ? 

 

 

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

During the summer there will be many MP's supposedly representing our country (even those in opposition)abroad on freebies or going on fact finding missions all across the world to find out what we already know. We need to go out and sell UK limited, build up relations with countries who are willing to trade with us. If only other large countries did as much as we are doing to protect the world, it would be a far better place.  

 

Thats rather a straw man argument unless you have proof of these people defying the rules to travel abroad on spurious business. 

 

There are thousands worldwide engaging in high value deals using the various online business tools, my other half and her colleagues regularly conducts business with China, Korea and Singapore and the USA, with values in the millions and the potential even greater growth all using on line meetings. 

 

Her employer, being in Reinsurance knows the risks gallivanting around the world poses and has banned long haul business travel for the forseeable future, and the plain fact is the clients recognise and appreciate the responsible stance taken. 

 

 

[petethemole]

37 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

All newspapers will be well aware of the biases and preferences of their readership, and shape their content accordingly.

I think the Star picture editor might be taking the P*** out of its readership, very slightly, while many may not realise it.

[hayfield]

19 minutes ago, Simon Lee said:

 

and if this hard working paragon of virtue brings back a different varient what then ?  is that an acceptable risk in your eyes ? 

 

 

 

Thats rather a straw man argument unless you have proof of these people defying the rules to travel abroad on spurious business. 

 

There are thousands worldwide engaging in high value deals using the various online business tools, my other half and her colleagues regularly conducts business with China, Korea and Singapore and the USA, with values in the millions and the potential even greater growth all using on line meetings. 

 

Her employer, being in Reinsurance knows the risks gallivanting around the world poses and has banned long haul business travel for the forseeable future, and the plain fact is the clients recognise and appreciate the responsible stance taken. 

 

 

 

What you have totally ignored is Right from the outset one of the exemptions has been representatives of countries (politicians and civil servants). Some business has to be face to face, example EU negotiations, G20 meeting etc. Simply dammed if they do and dammed if they don't. I would imaging the civil servants ensure risks are minimised

 

Far worst has been the total disregard of the travel bans by several thousand UK citizens seeing their families abroad, in some cases spreading the virus's where they went to, in others bringing it back, in the past far too many business meetings abroad were jollies. Now meetings over the internet are the norm, in fact one employer stated employees are loosing the ability to interact in person.  

[hayfield]

50 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

It was a TIC illustration that there will always be biases but you often criticise some for a left bias when it's very clear your bias is a different shade.

 

True but I am up to criticize the right when necessary,

[rocor]

The topic heading states: No politics, less opinion. There is no prohibition on taking the thread off subject, though. Maybe we should get back to discussing electric vehicles until there is more substantive Covid news to get our teeth into. 

[Reorte]

2 hours ago, Simon Lee said:

 

and if this hard working paragon of virtue brings back a different varient what then ?  is that an acceptable risk in your eyes ?

The relevant thing to consider isn't "what if he does?", it's "what is the likelihood of him doing so?" To take things to the extreme for the sake of example, we can all think of some absurdly low risk that doesn't bother us in the slightest but which could still theoretically happen. The sensible approach there is to completely ignore it. At the other extreme some things are so horrendously dangerous that people have always done their utmost to avoid them. How we respond to any particular risk depends upon where it lies between those extremes, and there's no definitely correct answer to that; what is acceptable is inevitably subjective.

[Steamport Southport]

On 07/08/2021 at 15:44, petethemole said:

I think the Star picture editor might be taking the P*** out of its readership, very slightly, while many may not realise it.

 

The Star is a newspaper bought by a owner that already had a popular tabloid as it came with the other papers they bought. So they've turned it into a modern version of The Sport. If it looks like it's a joke, that's because it is. It's a fun newspaper and most buyers know that. 

 

Quote

Since being taken over by Reach in 2018 and under the editorship of Jon Clark, the publication has taken a more humor focused direction

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Star_(United_Kingdom)

 

 

 

For those that don't know they also own the Daily Mirror, Sunday Mirror, The Sunday People, Daily Express, Sunday Express, Daily Star, Daily Star Sunday as well as the Scottish Daily Record and Sunday Mail and the magazine OK!. 

 

As well as various local newspapers.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Reach_plc_titles

 

 

 

Jason

[hayfield]

I see the ONS survey of vaccine acceptance has found it getting higher, coupled with this very soon we will see 90% of adults having their first jab and perhaps today we will pass 75% having both jabs

 

Sadly there is still hesitance from young adults (though this is decreasing) and some ethnic groups. its a great pity as they are seemingly at a higher risk. 

 

I noticed yesterday that hospitalizations are thankfully still decreasing, as are infections in our area all be it at a slower rate, but this may be due to the rule changes 2 weeks ago, which may be why nationally we have seen slight increases lately.  

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

A lead article in one of the weekend papers here (Liberation) about the situation in Africa where the vaccination rate is currently 2%.

 

So a huge reservoir of unvaccinated people for the virus to spread amongst and mutate. We cannot control, let alone eliminate, COVID-19 unless more is done to protect people in Third World countries.

 

Also alarming infection rates in Caribbean territories. Low vaccination rates there in part due to local customs and beliefs.

[hayfield]

On 07/08/2021 at 12:09, Neil said:

 

Good news from the EU six member states have now overtaken the UK's vaccination rates for the double-jabbed. Malta is way ahead with Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Ireland all exceeding the UK's total; it may well be that you're safer at one of these holiday destinations than at home. Also of interest is that Italy and the Netherlands are close to the UK; your delayed trip to Italy might be a good prospect for next year.

 

Interesting graph on the BBC, sadly shows how badly Africa and the middle east are being treated by the vaccine program for poor countries

 

This set of statistics are interactive to a limited degree but you can set parameters to give some sort of guide on total vaccinations,  vaccinations per 100 people and population size

 

Clearly its far easier for tiny and countries with small populations, so whenever comparing results differing circumstances must be taken into consideration. Gibraltar for instance 230 vaccinations per 100 people (explained by vaccinating Spanish workforce.) Denmark with a population of 7 million. Then you have countries like ourselves having an 8 week period between jabs, countries with a higher percentage of younger people etc

 

The good news is in the developed world we are getting there, but the vaccination program in the developing countries needs to increase, perhaps new treatments not requiring refrigeration and perhaps single dose tablets may speed things up. Its in everybody's interests all are vaccinated or so we are told.

[Hobby]

The problem for Africa is that the only affordable vaccine has been ridiculed by the EU's political leaders so much that many don't now want to use it. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[hayfield]

25 minutes ago, Hobby said:

The problem for Africa is that the only affordable vaccine has been ridiculed by the EU's political leaders so much that many don't now want to use it. They should be ashamed of themselves.

 

That's part of it, the biggest issue is the logistic and finance, plus in many areas civil unrest. I doubt if many outside of the main cities are even aware about the EU's wrangling

 

I did read the Scandinavians are working on a tablet and a nasal spray, one or both are single dose and no need for refrigeration. This would make things so easy for developing countries

[Quarryscapes]

Can't say as I'm all that impressed with the rollout locally. Took an age to get a first dose because clinics were popping up without notice, only being advertised on the day via social media (which if I did see was usually after the event!). I eventually got lucky and got done in the local Dolgellau leisure centre. I'm due my 2nd jab now, and thankfully online booking has now been introduced so I can at least plan ahead - except that there quite simply are no clinics outside of Bangor running. That's a 110 mile round trip for me, which by bus will need an entire day off work as I'd have to leave at 8.20 to be back for 5, assuming I can even get a mid day slot!  

[chris p bacon]

2 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

A lead article in one of the weekend papers here (Liberation) about the situation in Africa where the vaccination rate is currently 2%.

 

41 minutes ago, Hobby said:

The problem for Africa is that the only affordable vaccine has been ridiculed by the EU's political leaders so much that many don't now want to use it. They should be ashamed of themselves.

 

The blame for Africa's slow take up of the AZ vaccine is laid at the feet of Macron and to a lesser extent Merkel.  Their political posturing over AZ has suggested to a lot of African countries that they are receiving a 2nd rate  vaccine.

I did read 2 articles over the weekend detailing just how much profit Pziser(?), Moderna etc have made in comparison to AZ, which suggested to me that some Countries have put the profit margins of their pharma companies above the health of their citizens. 

[D9020 Nimbus]

16 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I did read the Scandinavians are working on a tablet and a nasal spray, one or both are single dose and no need for refrigeration.

As far as I'm aware, these are treatments not vaccines — the equivalent of Tamiflu and Relenza, perhaps. Something that would still be very useful.