RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 30 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30 1 hour ago, B15nac said: I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also. Kind regards Neil The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so, It also takes time to build up speed but then has to have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it. I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1 15 hours ago, B15nac said: I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also. Kind regards Neil Sounds like the controller might not be suitable for this very modern model. Buzzing and juddering isnt good - I wouldnt run it until I'd ascertained what the issue was. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 Ok thank you for the reply. What controller do you have ? Maybe its my gaugmaster Q. I'm not sure what's the best controller to go for. 17 hours ago, The Stationmaster said: The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so, It also takes time to build up speed but then has to have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it. I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Silver Sidelines Posted July 1 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1 19 hours ago, B15nac said: I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also. Kind regards Neil I am not an expert. You don't say if the model was new or pre owned. I only run analogue and the first thing I do with a sound engine is to put it on a programming track fed by my SPROG. I read all the CVs and then if I suspect it has been messed with a reset it back to its factory settings. Newer models (all makes) run better on analogue these days than in the past. However I still find it often necessary to lower the chip voltage. As I said you perhaps don't know what settings the chip is using. Regards Ray 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 It's new from key publishing I'm not very clued up on CVS an settings or how to change them. Thanks for the information 41 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said: I am not an expert. You don't say if the model was new or pre owned. I only run analogue and the first thing I do with a sound engine is to put it on a programming track fed by my SPROG. I read all the CVs and then if I suspect it has been messed with a reset it back to its factory settings. Newer models (all makes) run better on analogue these days than in the past. However I still find it often necessary to lower the chip voltage. As I said you perhaps don't know what settings the chip is using. Regards Ray 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1 2 hours ago, B15nac said: Ok thank you for the reply. What controller do you have ? Maybe its my gaugmaster Q. I'm not sure what's the best controller to go for. I'm on DCC for the main layout and use an NCE Powercab with a 5 amp booster. The symptom you describe though is the reason I (finally!) threw away my Hornby trainset controller used previously used for testing - the Bachmann J72 ran like you describe on that. Replaced the Hornby trainset controller on DC test track with a basic Gaugemaster last year on which everything new to date has run fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Silver Sidelines Posted July 1 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1 (edited) 27 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said: - the Bachmann J72 ran like you describe ... An interesting comment Mike about the J72. I was thinking of writing a Blog Post about the Bachmann J72. There is an issue with running it on analogue - nothing to do with the controller - more to do with the LokSound micro. I replaced the LokSound micro from the J72 with a Zimmo from John at YouChoos - excellent (and great service). The LokSound went off to wheeltappers and is now fitted in an Sonic models A5. More great service. Both models now run well on analogue - Gaugemaster DS and P type controllers. I have two DS controllers and the way the layout is configured the whole layout can be controlled from either end using either controller - or a P type controller in the middle. Regards Ray Edited July 1 by Silver Sidelines Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 David Christie's shot of 7813 at Reading South in August '63... 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 1 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1 55 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said: An interesting comment Mike about the J72. I was thinking of writing a Blog Post about the Bachmann J72. There is an issue with running it on analogue - nothing to do with the controller - more to do with the LokSound micro. I replaced the LokSound micro from the J72 with a Zimmo from John at YouChoos - excellent (and great service). The LokSound went off to wheeltappers and is now fitted in an Sonic models A5. More great service. Both models now run well on analogue - Gaugemaster DS and P type controllers. I have two DS controllers and the way the layout is configured the whole layout can be controlled from either end using either controller - or a P type controller in the middle. Regards Ray Evening Ray, The J72 wasn’t actually chipped when I first tested it on the old Hornby train set controller - but it ran terribly on that controller, such I was considering sending it back. Sound chipped with a Zimo from Digitrains and it’s fine. My second J72 is yet to be chipped but I have run that on the Gaugemaster replacement and it’s smooth and quiet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted July 2 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2 On 30/06/2024 at 23:39, The Stationmaster said: The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so, It also takes time to build up speed but then has to have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it. I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference? So much water has passed under my own modelling bridge, that I can't remember whether this model has a coreless motor or not, but if you are using a DC feedback controller with a modern coreless motor, then there will be problems (because you're not meant to!). I've found different DC controllers provide different levels of controllability, regardless of whether they are feedback or not, but I do endorse the suspicions voiced by others that some modern RTR releases are engineered with DCC in mind. You shouldn't have to turn the controller back to stop it 'galloping away'... To my frustration, though, I don't know enough even about the most basic of DC electrics to understand why some of us get these different levels of performance. I have now taken to sticking a label on all of my loco boxes, stating which of my DC controllers the loco performs best with. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold franciswilliamwebb Posted July 2 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2 5 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said: To my frustration, though, I don't know enough even about the most basic of DC electrics to understand why some of us get these different levels of performance. I have now taken to sticking a label on all of my loco boxes, stating which of my DC controllers the loco performs best with. 'twas always thus. Back in the 80s I had a variety of DC controllers, what worked well with Lima pancakes would be horrible with Atlas or Roco where the motor was akin to the modern can types. Stuff with ye-olde X03/X04 motors loved my H&M Duette, etc, etc. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Dublo2 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) On 30/06/2024 at 23:39, The Stationmaster said: The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so, It also takes time to build up speed but then has to have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it. I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference? Some sound fitted DCC models of steam locos deliberately do that as when you go to start them moving they go through sequence of opening cylinder drain cocks (and other sounds that might happen while still stationary but preparing to move) before the loco starts to move. DCC sound chips often have a delayed start setting that caters for doing this. For a DCC loco to move on a DC controller you have to provide enough voltage to power up the chip, so the loco won't immediately move if speed dial is too low, and then when the chip is powered up you may run into the sequence mentioned above, I am also guessing that even when running on DC that acceleration and deceleration settings still apply . The acceleration rate (CV3) is ofter quite long on a DCC fitted loco - this is to try and emulate how the real loco accelerates, however if running on a small layout you may want to go for less realism and reduce this value (and possibly the deceleration one, CV4 too - as I have had a loco do 1.5 laps of my small oval going from full speed to zero because of the deceleration setting.) Of course if on DC you can't change these settings Edited July 2 by 5Dublo2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted July 2 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2 Hello Mike (Stationmaster) Is there any reason why you are running a DCC-fitted loco on DC? The only time I had a DCC-fitted loco to run on my DC layout, I had trouble controlling it. Sent it to Hornby for chip removal and the problem was solved. (I think I had bought it second-hand and was unaware of the DCC fitment!) I think I have noted before on this thread that I use All Components handheld controllers (they used to be Kent Panel Controllers) with the feedback turned off. Their repair man does it for me. He once inadvertently forgot to switch it off on one repair and my DJM 14xx jumped all over the place! When the controller came back corrected, the problem was solved! I have very good control with all my locos. The Manor is no exception (and I have two of them). Brian 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 2 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 2 19 hours ago, B15nac said: Ok thank you for the reply. What controller do you have ? Maybe its my gaugmaster Q. I'm not sure what's the best controller to go for. I use an H&M Powermaster which probably - without checking - has a slightly higher power output than many more modern controllers. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Probably another silly question by me but do none DDC manors come with speakers? If not can you buy them separately? Kind regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Silver Sidelines Posted July 3 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 3 24 minutes ago, B15nac said: Probably another silly question by me but do none DDC manors come with speakers? If not can you buy them separately? Kind regards Neil My understanding from reading elsehwere is that yes they come with speakers. I believe most 'new' models have speakers these days, Rapido 15xx, Bachmann 94xx for example. Cheers Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 3 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, Silver Sidelines said: My understanding from reading elsehwere is that yes they come with speakers. I believe most 'new' models have speakers these days, Rapido 15xx, Bachmann 94xx for example. Cheers Ray Agree though of varying quality. The Manor speakers are pretty quiet (even though the volume on the factory fitted project is set to maximum) compared to some on the market. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted July 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4 16 hours ago, B15nac said: Probably another silly question by me but do none DDC manors come with speakers? If not can you buy them separately? Kind regards Neil Yes speakers are available from various companies - based on personal experience, I would recommend YouChoos: https://www.youchoos.co.uk 14 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: Agree though of varying quality. The Manor speakers are pretty quiet (even though the volume on the factory fitted project is set to maximum) compared to some on the market. By changing the speaker, it has made a big difference to the model. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted July 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4 3 hours ago, Neal Ball said: By changing the speaker, it has made a big difference to the model. Interesting - what Youchoos speakers did you use? For factory fitted Bachmann models I've found Road & Rails replacement 15x11 makes a significant difference (more base and crisper than the factory fitted). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted July 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4 (edited) 53 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said: Interesting - what Youchoos speakers did you use? For factory fitted Bachmann models I've found Road & Rails replacement 15x11 makes a significant difference (more base and crisper than the factory fitted). The "sugar cube" speakers that are fitted in the Manor and seemingly will be fitted in other upcoming models really need good sealed enclosures behind them to produce the best sound. (They have negligible enclosures in the Manor, which is part of the problem.) If manufacturers omit proper sealed enclosures with their factory fitted speakers they won't be much use to any of us who want sound that's as good as our own custom installations, I'm afraid. If I was doing a Manor sound installation now I would definitely use one of the new ESU passive radiator speakers (available from Road and Rails as "Premium" speakers). They are on a whole different level from sugar cubes but fitting one in a Manor tender would involve doing some surgery... Edited July 4 by Harlequin 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted July 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4 2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said: Interesting - what Youchoos speakers did you use? For factory fitted Bachmann models I've found Road & Rails replacement 15x11 makes a significant difference (more base and crisper than the factory fitted). It was an Icecube double speaker 28x18x8mm which involved lots of work in the tender to squeeze it in. The build is on page 216 of my thread: 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post gwrrob Posted July 6 RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted July 6 I had a very nice Manor fix today with the footplate trip on 7827 Lydham Manor. This was on the Paignton and Dartmouth line, highly recommended. 23 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 9 Share Posted July 9 All of a sudden I am now the proud owner of a 7819 Hinton Manor. I should receive her in 2 days' time. Al. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noss Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 On 06/07/2024 at 22:20, gwrrob said: I had a very nice Manor fix today with the footplate trip on 7827 Lydham Manor. This was on the Paignton and Dartmouth line, highly recommended. Notice how the handrails meet the roof...! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 On 09/07/2024 at 22:54, atom3624 said: All of a sudden I am now the proud owner of a 7819 Hinton Manor. I should receive her in 2 days' time. Al. 'The Eagle has Landed'! What an absolutely stunning model!! Nothing else I can say! Al. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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