Accurascale's First Steam Locomotive; GWR Collett 78xx Manor Class!

[B15nac]

I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also.  

 

Kind regards Neil 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, B15nac said:

I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also.  

 

Kind regards Neil 

The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so,  It also takes time to build up speed but then has to  have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it.

 

I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference?

[MikeParkin65]

15 hours ago, B15nac said:

I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also.  

 

Kind regards Neil 

Sounds like the controller might not be suitable for this very modern model. Buzzing and juddering isnt good - I wouldnt run it until I'd ascertained what the issue was.

[B15nac]

Ok thank you for the reply. What controller do you have ? Maybe its my gaugmaster Q. I'm not sure what's the best controller to go for. 

17 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so,  It also takes time to build up speed but then has to  have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it.

 

I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference?

 

[Silver Sidelines]

19 hours ago, B15nac said:

I've received a Bradley manor DCC sound model. I only have DC an she runs but with a lot of buzzing from the motor is this because it should only run on DCC? Seems to judder a bit also.  

 

Kind regards Neil 

 

I am not an expert.  You don't say if the model was new or pre owned.  I only run analogue and the first thing I do with a sound engine is to put it on a programming track fed by my SPROG.  I read all the CVs and then if I suspect it has been messed with a reset it back to its factory settings.  Newer models (all makes) run better on analogue these days than in the past.  However I still find it often necessary to lower the chip voltage.

 

As I said you perhaps don't know what settings the chip is using.

 

Regards  Ray

[B15nac]

It's new from key publishing I'm not very clued up on CVS an settings or how to change them.

Thanks for the information 

41 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

I am not an expert.  You don't say if the model was new or pre owned.  I only run analogue and the first thing I do with a sound engine is to put it on a programming track fed by my SPROG.  I read all the CVs and then if I suspect it has been messed with a reset it back to its factory settings.  Newer models (all makes) run better on analogue these days than in the past.  However I still find it often necessary to lower the chip voltage.

 

As I said you perhaps don't know what settings the chip is using.

 

Regards  Ray

 

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, B15nac said:

Ok thank you for the reply. What controller do you have ? Maybe its my gaugmaster Q. I'm not sure what's the best controller to go for. 

 

I'm on DCC for the main layout and use an NCE Powercab with a 5 amp booster. The symptom you describe though is the reason I (finally!) threw away my Hornby trainset controller used previously used for testing - the Bachmann J72 ran like you describe on that. Replaced the Hornby trainset controller on DC test track with a basic Gaugemaster last year on which everything new to date has run fine.  

[Silver Sidelines]

27 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

   - the Bachmann J72 ran like you describe ...

 

An interesting comment Mike about the J72.  I was thinking of writing a Blog Post about the Bachmann J72.  There is an issue with running it on analogue - nothing to do with the controller - more to do with the LokSound micro.  I replaced the LokSound micro from the J72 with a Zimmo from John at YouChoos - excellent (and great service).  The LokSound went off to wheeltappers and is now fitted in an Sonic models A5.  More great service.  Both models now run well on analogue - Gaugemaster DS and P type controllers.  I have two DS controllers and the way the layout is configured the whole layout can be controlled from either end using either controller - or a P type controller in the middle.

 

Regards  Ray

Edited Monday at 18:57 by Silver Sidelines

[Rugd1022]

David Christie's shot of 7813 at Reading South in August '63...

 

[MikeParkin65]

55 minutes ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

An interesting comment Mike about the J72.  I was thinking of writing a Blog Post about the Bachmann J72.  There is an issue with running it on analogue - nothing to do with the controller - more to do with the LokSound micro.  I replaced the LokSound micro from the J72 with a Zimmo from John at YouChoos - excellent (and great service).  The LokSound went off to wheeltappers and is now fitted in an Sonic models A5.  More great service.  Both models now run well on analogue - Gaugemaster DS and P type controllers.  I have two DS controllers and the way the layout is configured the whole layout can be controlled from either end using either controller - or a P type controller in the middle.

 

Regards  Ray

Evening Ray, The J72 wasn’t actually chipped when I first tested it on the old Hornby train set controller - but it ran terribly on that controller, such I was considering sending it back. Sound chipped with a Zimo from Digitrains and it’s fine. My second J72 is yet to be chipped but I have run that on the Gaugemaster replacement and it’s smooth and quiet.  

[Captain Kernow]

On 30/06/2024 at 23:39, The Stationmaster said:

The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so,  It also takes time to build up speed but then has to  have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it.

 

I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference?

So much water has passed under my own modelling bridge, that I can't remember whether this model has a coreless motor or not, but if you are using a DC feedback controller with a modern coreless motor, then there will be problems (because you're not meant to!).

 

I've found different DC controllers provide different levels of controllability, regardless of whether they are feedback or not, but I do endorse the suspicions voiced by others that some modern RTR releases are engineered with DCC in mind.

 

You shouldn't have to turn the controller back to stop it 'galloping away'...

 

To my frustration, though, I don't know enough even about the most basic of DC electrics to understand why some of us get these different levels of performance. I have now taken to sticking a label on all of my loco boxes, stating which of my DC controllers the loco performs best with.

 

[franciswilliamwebb]

5 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

To my frustration, though, I don't know enough even about the most basic of DC electrics to understand why some of us get these different levels of performance. I have now taken to sticking a label on all of my loco boxes, stating which of my DC controllers the loco performs best with.

 

'twas always thus.  Back in the 80s I had a variety of DC controllers, what worked well with Lima pancakes would be horrible with Atlas or Roco where the motor was akin to the modern can types.  Stuff with ye-olde X03/X04 motors loved my H&M Duette, etc, etc.

[5Dublo2]

On 30/06/2024 at 23:39, The Stationmaster said:

The only thing I've noticed running a DCC 'Manor' on DC is that it takes a litt;pe while to get unerway but makes some very appropriate sounds while it's doing so,  It also takes time to build up speed but then has to  have the contrller turned back to stop it galloping away - rather a fun experience 'driving' it.

 

I wonder if the controllers we use make a difference?

 

Some sound fitted DCC models of steam locos deliberately do that as when you go to start them moving they go through  sequence of opening cylinder drain cocks (and other sounds that might happen while still stationary but preparing to move) before the loco starts to move.  DCC sound chips often have a delayed start setting that caters for doing this.

For a DCC loco to move on a DC controller you have to provide enough voltage to power up the chip, so the loco won't immediately move if speed dial is too low, and then when the chip is powered up you may run into the sequence mentioned above, 

I am also guessing that even when running on DC that acceleration and deceleration settings still apply . The acceleration  rate (CV3) is ofter quite long on a DCC fitted loco - this is to try and emulate how the real loco accelerates, however if running on a small layout you may want to go for less realism and reduce this value (and possibly the deceleration one, CV4  too - as I have had a loco do 1.5 laps of my small oval going from full speed to zero because of the deceleration setting.) Of course if on DC you can't change these settings

 

Edited yesterday at 10:03 by 5Dublo2

[BMacdermott]

Hello Mike (Stationmaster)

 

Is there any reason why you are running a DCC-fitted loco on DC?

 

The only time I had a DCC-fitted loco to run on my DC layout, I had trouble controlling it. Sent it to Hornby for chip removal and the problem was solved. (I think I had bought it second-hand and was unaware of the DCC fitment!)

 

I think I have noted before on this thread that I use All Components handheld controllers (they used to be Kent Panel Controllers) with the feedback turned off. Their repair man does it for me. He once inadvertently forgot to switch it off on one repair and my DJM 14xx jumped all over the place! When the controller came back corrected, the problem was solved!

 

I have very good control with all my locos. The Manor is no exception (and I have two of them).

 

Brian

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, B15nac said:

Ok thank you for the reply. What controller do you have ? Maybe its my gaugmaster Q. I'm not sure what's the best controller to go for. 

 

I use an H&M Powermaster which probably - without checking - has a slightly higher power output than many more modern controllers.

[B15nac]

Probably another silly question by me but do none DDC manors come with speakers? If not can you buy them separately?

 

Kind regards Neil 

[Silver Sidelines]

24 minutes ago, B15nac said:

Probably another silly question by me but do none DDC manors come with speakers? If not can you buy them separately?

 

Kind regards Neil 

 

My understanding from reading elsehwere is that yes they come with speakers.  I  believe most 'new' models have speakers these days, Rapido 15xx, Bachmann 94xx for example.

 

Cheers Ray

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Silver Sidelines said:

 

My understanding from reading elsehwere is that yes they come with speakers.  I  believe most 'new' models have speakers these days, Rapido 15xx, Bachmann 94xx for example.

 

Cheers Ray

Agree though of varying quality. The Manor speakers are pretty quiet (even though the volume on the factory fitted project is set to maximum) compared to some on the market.