Formula 1 2021

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

All the teams have to operate within the budget cap and it's only been through other drivers blinking first and backing down that MV hasn't previously created similar situations for some of those drivers or indeed, himself.

 

LH decided that (for once) he wouldn't and came off best, the incident could have just as easily taken out his car, or both of them. For MV it was a pure case of misadventure; his usual driving style just didn't have its usual intimidatory effect that day.

 

Presumably, if replacing almost his whole car means RB run short of budget later, they could keep MV in championship contention simply by withdrawing their second car.

 

The problem may be (my speculation) that RB have spent so much making their car competitive this season that they have used up the funds that would normally be set aside for such contingencies as writing a car off.

 

If so, that's a chance they were entitled to take, but it would be unfair to other teams if they are allowed to break the budget cap to make up for losing the gamble.

 

John

 

 

Removing the 2nd Car, i.e Perez would upset Perez and reduce the chance of the Constructors Title.

[PaulRhB]

5 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Removing the 2nd Car, i.e Perez would upset Perez and reduce the chance of the Constructors Title.

I wonder if the rules allow the car to be swapped between drivers though so Perez picks up the penalty? Lewis and Valterri swapped chassis so they could swap the RB’s now so the parts are on Checo’s car when they need replacing? That way you’d maintain the manufacturers points and the drivers. 

[Andrew P]

8 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I wonder if the rules allow the car to be swapped between drivers though so Perez picks up the penalty? Lewis and Valterri swapped chassis so they could swap the RB’s now so the parts are on Checo’s car when they need replacing? That way you’d maintain the manufacturers points and the drivers. 

Yes, I think its the Car not the Driver, so for example if Bottas was injured last year, and say Hulkenberg stepped in, the Car would have the penalty regardless.

[Dunsignalling]

14 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Removing the 2nd Car, i.e Perez would upset Perez and reduce the chance of the Constructors Title.

True, but if Max was still in contention but the budget was running dangerously low, potentially preventing either car completing the season, what other alternative would there be? 

 

John

[mozzer models]

23 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Yes, I think its the Car not the Driver, so for example if Bottas was injured last year, and say Hulkenberg stepped in, the Car would have the penalty regardless.

 

32 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

I wonder if the rules allow the car to be swapped between drivers though so Perez picks up the penalty? Lewis and Valterri swapped chassis so they could swap the RB’s now so the parts are on Checo’s car when they need replacing? That way you’d maintain the manufacturers points and the drivers. 

With engines its the car/ driver that is allocated so if max has used 3 engine if he swops the car which has only used 2 he would still get a pen as its his 4th  also i think the team's have to run 2 cars in there contract with F1  

[rocor]

23 hours ago, Hobby said:

I'd agree that write offs shouldn't carry a grid penalty, I can't think of any driver that would deliberately put himself in the fence just to get a new car, though I can see some teams may "write off" a car if they think there's an advantage to replacing it with a new one... (In this case I'm not suggesting that!) As long as the new car is identical to the old one (as much as possible) I'm sure there will be some leeway. I'm not sure they've announced a grid penalty for Max as yet unless I've missed something?

 

As the restrictions on the number of components (engines, gearboxes) that could be used per year without incurring penalties was introduced as a cost-cutting measure, maybe now that an overall annual team budget has been introduced to F1, they should be rescinded.

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, Andrew P said:

Yes, I think its the Car not the Driver, so for example if Bottas was injured last year, and say Hulkenberg stepped in, the Car would have the penalty regardless.

 

Yes, that's what happened a few years ago when Jenson Button stepped in for the Monaco Grand Prix to allow Alonso to race in the Indy 500 - Jenson got a grid penalty for parts fitted to the car.

 

However I'm sure there must be something in the rules to stop the #2 driver picking up penalties intended for #1.

[Andrew P]

All getting a bit personal and nasty in my opinion.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/hamilton-waving-a-flag-like-nothing-happened-shows-what-mercedes-are-really-like-verstappen/

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/hamilton-dismisses-verstappens-complaint-his-silverstone-celebration-was-disrespectful/

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/verstappen-surprised-stewards-did-not-wholly-blame-hamilton-for-crash/

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Hamilton suggests Verstappen respect "not reciprocated".

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67996/hamilton-suggests-verstappen-respect-not-reciprocated/?fbclid=IwAR1seaD6l1tH0XLQTWxWNXKm6hXhFMuA2hmlkvMxp16By1OiI9OusQIgw8E

[Andrew P]

Max Verstappen says Mercedes showed 'how they really are' at Silverstone.

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/31911887/max-verstappen-says-mercedes-showed-how-really-silverstone

[Darius43]

Max and RB keep digging into this hole…getting really tiresome.

 

Respect is earned over a long time and lost in an instant.  I wonder how much respect he has really earned from the other drivers who have experienced his antics over the years compared to that which thinks he deserves.

 

As far as I am concerned, both he and RB have lost any respect that I had for them.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

 

[Andrew P]

11 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

Max and RB keep digging into this hole…getting really tiresome.

 

Respect is earned over a long time and lost in an instant.  I wonder how much respect he has really earned from the other drivers who have experienced his antics over the years compared to that which thinks he deserves.

 

As far as I am concerned, both he and RB have lost any respect that I had for them.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

 

WELL SAID.

[MattA]

From what I've seen, it appears that Hamilton is willing to at least try and bury the hatchet, but Max is having none of it.

 

Part of me says 'good grief Max/RB, just give it up', but another part of me's intrigued as to what kind of fireworks we might get on-track (hopefully no more hospital visits though!)

Edited July 29, 2021 by MattA

[Reorte]

The way this is going on you'd think it was one of the worst accidents ever seen in F1. Whilst it's good that nowadays he'd checked over at hospital after a shunt like that (which isn't much different from hundreds of others in the sport, even if it unfortunately ended with a nastier than average impact) it's not as if he was there to receive life-saving treatment instead of a sensible precaution.

[Andrew P]

So, Speculation time, has he done enough to keep the seat or will Albon be back, or Gasley re promoted.

 

I personally think Gasley is better off where he is.

 

Perez expects Red Bull future to be decided before next race.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67991/perez-expects-red-bull-future-to-be-decided-before-next-race/?fbclid=IwAR2h2xla0MDyzn7MKXKErbEnOu7ejzcUmLaznsV0lBwoy5LRkw4sWB5DhNo

[MattA]

Just now, Andrew P said:

So, Speculation time, has he done enough to keep the seat or will Albon be back, or Gasley re promoted.

 

I personally think Gasley is better off where he is.

 

Perez expects Red Bull future to be decided before next race.

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67991/perez-expects-red-bull-future-to-be-decided-before-next-race/?fbclid=IwAR2h2xla0MDyzn7MKXKErbEnOu7ejzcUmLaznsV0lBwoy5LRkw4sWB5DhNo

If I was in charge I'd keep Perez/Albon/Gasly where they are

[didcot]

Unofficial result, no further action for Hamilton according to Sky F1 Show

[iak]

Max - Toys - Out of Pram - Takes his ball home - Bored now...

[Oldddudders]

Verstappen's arrogance is really coming to the fore, no doubt aided and abetted by Horner and Marko. ISTR Dutch racefans telling me his father "Jos the Boss" was never really popular in Nederland in a way we might have expected.

 

None of this nastiness works well for the F1 image, and those at the helm of the sport need to have a stern word in one or two lugholes. 

[didcot]

Empty vessels make the most noise!

[MattA]

36 minutes ago, didcot said:

Unofficial result, no further action for Hamilton according to Sky F1 Show

To the surprise of absolutely nobody except a few people at Red Bull

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, didcot said:

Unofficial result, no further action for Hamilton according to Sky F1 Show

 

Official now...

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/red-bull-fail-review-verstappen-hamilton-collision/

[Oldddudders]

3 minutes ago, Hobby said:

 

Official now...

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/red-bull-fail-review-verstappen-hamilton-collision/

My heart bleeds.

[57xx]

3 hours ago, Andrew P said:

All getting a bit personal and nasty in my opinion.

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/hamilton-waving-a-flag-like-nothing-happened-shows-what-mercedes-are-really-like-verstappen/

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/hamilton-dismisses-verstappens-complaint-his-silverstone-celebration-was-disrespectful/

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/29/verstappen-surprised-stewards-did-not-wholly-blame-hamilton-for-crash/

 

 

As I thought before, it appears his ego is too big for him to capitulate and admit slamming the door on another driver in a fast corner lays some of the blame on himself.

 

I had started rooting for him after his initial brashness on entry to F1, but now thinking back to incidents like the punch up in the garage, taking out his team mate on track etc, any respect he earned has gone.

[MattA]

That is properly embarassing for Red Bull. The short version of the stewards document is that "Red Bull didn't discover any new evidence at all, they just created new evidence using PowerPoint - case dismissed"

Ferrari using Sky Sports analysis a couple of years ago was one thing, but imo Red Bull have managed to trump that by having clearly not learned from Ferrari's mistake, which showed that any 'new evidence' in such a case has to be proper.