friscopete Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Hroth said: What is it with C4 giving Christian Horner so much airtime during a race to express his opinions? "Lets go back to Christian Horner. Christian what do you think...?" The place for that is either before or after the race. .He is really the only team spokesman who will open his gob on demand and saves awkward questions being asked of its true boss.Thats his job if paddock rumours are true .He has no team input at all .My daughter worked with him way back and turned down the offer of a chance to be a potential Mrs Horner .Her description is beyond the decency parameters of this noble forum but she assumes the ex spice girl is desperate for publicity. 1 1 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steadfast said: I'm sorry but if someone is found at blame for an incident and is thus penalised, the penalty should be in proportion to the incident and it's result. Send someone into a 51G race ending crash and it demands more than 10 seconds. Pitch him into a spin off onto the tarmac and he recovers, 10 seconds seems fair. If Lewis was found culpable by the stewards of a crash of that severity and thus penalised, there's no way in hell he should have been able to win. Just goes to show how even in the final year of the current formula Mercedes are head and shoulders above the rest, albeit with Red Bull on a par. I reckon the same result would've happened had it been reversed, and Verstappen stayed in with a penalty and Hamilton retired. I'm not saying penalising Hamilton for that crash was right or wrong (racing incident anyone?), however I think the penalty rules need a shake up in my book. Jo 19 minutes ago, StuAllen said: Personally think the penalty was harsh, 1st lap racing incident. Up until the crash brilliant racing. Looking back over the season Lewis has backed out twice when gone wheel to wheel with Max - he wasn’t going to that today at him home race. Shame the wheel/gun got stuck in Lando’s pit stop he could have been on the podium. Having followed F1 for nigh on 30 years, the ebb and flow of races and championships always involves harsh decisions and finely balanced arguments. Penalties have never been entirely dependent on the outcome because a very dangerous move does not always result in a serious outcome, whilst a minor infringement can have devastating results. We have seen from the past couple of years that anything where drivers collide tends to result in some sort of sanction so on balance there was no way that Lewis would not get some sort of penalty. The fact that he was able to overcome it pushes a bit of luck his way but he has had his runs of bad luck and harsh outcomes in the past too. Edited July 18, 2021 by andyman7 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 57 minutes ago, Steadfast said: I'm sorry but if someone is found at blame for an incident and is thus penalised, the penalty should be in proportion to the incident and it's result. Send someone into a 51G race ending crash and it demands more than 10 seconds. Pitch him into a spin off onto the tarmac and he recovers, 10 seconds seems fair. No, it should not depend on the result of the crash. They have a set of rules which they apply in incidents like that, they should be consistant and not varied depending on what happens. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 It was an exciting race, Horner is doing his job for his driver and Wolff is doing the same for his. Neither driver wanted to give and and there was a collision, somehow Hamilton came out fairly unscathed and then benefitted from the red flag. In the past other drivers have similarly benefitted following an accident, it's not new, it's racing. Had it been that Hamilton had deliberately run him off the road then I would have been fully behind Horner, but Verstappen is a hard driver, he doesn't give in, why should Hamilton give any less and maybe he has been too respectful of Verstappen of late. I think the summer recess cannot come too soon for either team so they can step back and refocus on the remaining races. 2 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Gareth Collier said: We'll have to agree to disagree. The hunt was only required because of the 10 second penalty and it's not much of a hunt when one car is so much faster than the other. It wasn't will he catch and pass him but just how many laps from the end would it happen. If that was the highlight of the race then that doesn't say much for the current state of F1. Don’t worry, I’m sure someone will soon post an encouragement for you to watch BTC racing instead. Cheers Darius 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I think the collision is one of those instances where if the overtake comes off, everyone says what a good move it was (as they did for the almost identical move at the end of the race), but if it doesn't the driver is an idiot.... (I remember a similar thing happening at Monaco some years ago where Lewis pulled off a stunning move on Schumacher into Ste Devote early in the race, tried the same move later on against Maldonado, who wasn't quite so accommodating, took him out and got penalised). As to why CH gets so much airtime - as he has done for a number of years - I think it's quite simply that as the C4 team contains two ex-RB drivers they've been better able to approach him than some of the other team managers, and if it gets him more air time for the team, he isn't going to say no. 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 And another thought - should F1 cars have a hole in the top of the halo (where the central support is), that a flag can be planted into? 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2021 On 17/07/2021 at 19:01, Bulleidboy100 said: Based on the sprint, it looks like Max's race win tomorrow - by about ten seconds - give or take. You were right with the 10 seconds.......... 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 6 hours ago, rocor said: Charles Leclerc was 4th in practice, and 4th in the sprint race? Sorry, was thinking of Carlos! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERandBR Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 minute ago, RJS1977 said: And another thought - should F1 cars have a hole in the top of the halo (where the central support is), that a flag can be planted into? I was actually thinking the same thing. Maybe not a hole in the halo as that needs to withstand crashes but maybe a fip out addition to it so a flag can be located by the winning driver. Even if all it does is help the Driver hold it aloft for all the publicity pics. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Really enjoyed the whole weekend. Point No 1, yes if the crash had happened in the sprint race, ''A'' Would Lewis's penalty have been the same? ''B'' Would Red Bull have had a car for Max to drive today, assuming he was cleared by the Doctors? Point No 2, VB is being ultra compliant and speaking for the Team to keep Lewis and Toto LOVING HIM. Point No 3, I see The Vet was back on form. Point No 4, Little jack Horner, is probably the only Team Principal that will chat during the Race as he is probably not involved back stage, and is just the Gob piece for Red Bull. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Just now, newbryford said: You were right with the 10 seconds.......... If the stewards had chosen the penalty to engineer a close finish, they couldn't have done much better! No penalty, and Lewis may well have passed Charles during the pit stop phase, a harsher penalty and the race would have been a foregone conclusion. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Night Train said: Horner: You cant overtake on the inside at Copse Hamilton: Hold my beer So much so, that Hammy did it there on Lando and Charles................................ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: And another thought - should F1 cars have a hole in the top of the halo (where the central support is), that a flag can be planted into? Wouldn't that be the most soul-destroying (and a waste of time and money) for Haas and Williams to implement... 2 hours ago, Steadfast said: Mercedes are head and shoulders above the rest, albeit with Red Bull on a par. That's the spirit of Murray Walker right there... 2 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 I'm not sure why people were saying "You mustn't overtake into Copse". For most of the circuit's existence, this was the first corner (and still is for races using the National Circuit) so I would imagine it's seen more than its fair share of overtakes over the years. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friscopete Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 (edited) Max has been very near the mark for several races.You can only take youthful exuberance so far .It was due sooner rather than later .A lesson learned the hard way .At least its not Senna /Prost battles .......yet Edited July 18, 2021 by friscopete 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 18, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Gareth Collier said: We'll have to agree to disagree. The hunt was only required because of the 10 second penalty and it's not much of a hunt when one car is so much faster than the other. It wasn't will he catch and pass him but just how many laps from the end would it happen. If that was the highlight of the race then that doesn't say much for the current state of F1. Was one car so much faster? If so, why hadn't Hamilton cruised past before the pitstops? But, of course, winning the same race for the eighth time clearly indicates he found it a walk in the park. And there were plenty of duels going on further back, w Sainz harrying Ricciardo, Perez all over everyone but not managing much except fastest lap, and the Alpines and Astons scuffling. It was a lot less boring than many races. As for the penalty issue, it is the nature of the misdemeanour that should be punished, not the outcome. In a criminal court, you are tried for murder, irrespective of whether your victim was a down-and-out or a leading politician. Pirro et al concluded Lewis could have done better, and he was punished accordingly. The fact that the oleaginous Horner and ruthless Marko were upset added value for some of us. Max is a great driver, but Red Bull is a difficult team to like. 3 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERandBR Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 One thing is clear to me even if Lewis had gotten more of his car alongside, Max would have still turned in. The other drivers Lewis passed there realised that Lewis had the inside and momentum to pass. They knew he'd won the corner just by being where he was with that much momentum. Meanwhile, Max just didn't care and turned in to put the decision of to back out or not onto Lewis. Sadly, there wasn't time for any other decision to be made, Lewis was committed and as soon as it was clear he was still in the race I knew he'd get a penalty. As for Horner, if the two positions were swapped and Lewis had been on the outside and pitched into the wall he'd be saying it was a racing incident with just as much vigour. Max is his golden boy who cannot do anything wrong. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, RJS1977 said: I'm not sure why people were Christian Horner was saying "You mustn't overtake into Copse". There - fixed it for you, 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 Hamilton handed two penalty points for Verstappen collision. https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/18/hamilton-handed-two-penalty-points-for-verstappen-collision/ 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 A bit sour. Hamilton 'should be suspended' for Verstappen incident - Marko. https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67584/hamilton-should-be-suspended-for-verstappen-incident-marko/?fbclid=IwAR0ouCy4fAuPS44zhewJGatDS72qUqQt24S5rp3SNwpa7J-2KFFIIEjI4IU 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Sidecar Racer Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2021 23 minutes ago, LNERandBR said: As for Horner, if the two positions were swapped and Lewis had been on the outside and pitched into the wall he'd be saying it was a racing incident with just as much vigour. Max is his golden boy who cannot do anything wrong. Or say it was the fault of Lewis for turning in . 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 ^ FTAOD: I'm agreeing with your comment about sour grapes - not that Lewis should be suspended. 16 minutes ago, Andrew P said: A bit sour. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mudmagnet Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2021 Let's be honest, Max has / still is a very aggressive driver when racing and of course Lewis will attempt to overtake when ever possible. It does appear that Lewis was far enough alongside to Max at the corner and potentially difficult to back out, he was committed. Was Max prepared to yield, I don't think so, he was following the normal racing line and either did not expect to see Lewis there or was determined to continue on his chosen driving line - he will not answer that, at least not in public. Yes a racing incident and yes does warrant a penalty. As for Christian Horner comments, he will also blame the 'other driver', that's the role of the team principle in these situations. Whether he should get as much air time during the race is debatable. This could be a turning point in the duel between the two, either one or both will be a bit more cautious or expect more of the same. I suspect the latter. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted July 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, Andrew P said: A bit sour. Hamilton 'should be suspended' for Verstappen incident - Marko. https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/67584/hamilton-should-be-suspended-for-verstappen-incident-marko/?fbclid=IwAR0ouCy4fAuPS44zhewJGatDS72qUqQt24S5rp3SNwpa7J-2KFFIIEjI4IU Of course Herr Marko is renowned for his tolerance, compassion and empathy. Cheers Darius 1 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts