Formula 1 2021

[Andrew P]

2 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I'm going to be a bit controversial here but I don't think Alonso is quite on the same level as Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton or Verstappen

He can talk the talk, and that is about it.

[Zomboid]

Alonso is (well maybe was at this point) an absolutely elite driver. He's hard to judge solely on his results because he has never had the dominant machinery in the same way that Schumacher and Lewis have had. Which is partly down to his team choices.

 

I wouldn't put him on the very top step, but if F1 was a series where everyone had the same machinery he'd probably have better results than he has - but probably not enough to be level with Lewis & Senna.

 

As far as talent goes, Max is on that top step, but he's got to convert that into a career with a few titles yet.

[Andrew P]

1 hour ago, Zomboid said:

Alonso is (well maybe was at this point) an absolutely elite driver. He's hard to judge solely on his results because he has never had the dominant machinery in the same way that Schumacher and Lewis have had. Which is partly down to his team choices.

 

I wouldn't put him on the very top step, but if F1 was a series where everyone had the same machinery he'd probably have better results than he has - but probably not enough to be level with Lewis & Senna.

 

As far as talent goes, Max is on that top step, but he's got to convert that into a career with a few titles yet.

Yes Max is into his 6th season, (First F1 Race Austria 2015) and yet his Poles and Wins are still in single figures, mainly due I would say to his many early mistakes, which now seem a distant memory, and having both Lewis and the Vet as strong title contenders for his first couple of seasons. 

He also had a less than competitive car which was a major factor.

Of all the drivers on the grid, Lewis has had a lucky start with McLaren, and then made what I thought at the time was a silly move to Merc, but his one and only move has made him consistent with the Team built around him, hence his continued success. 

Edited June 22, 2021 by Andrew P

[Zomboid]

Lewis was very lucky to make his debut in a championship calibre car (I think it's right to say that if one of the Lewis/ Alonso finishing orders had been reversed then one of them would have won the title rather than Kimi), and at a time when there wasn't a single dominant team/ driver.

 

It's a shame RB couldn't get it together fully until this year. The battles between Lewis and Max could have been Prost/ Senna levels if they had a few years of both having championship calibre cars. And then with the new rules next year it's likely that they won't both be right at the front - so this could be our only chance to see these two in an all-out evenly matched title fight.

Edited June 22, 2021 by Zomboid

[Andrew P]

8 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Lewis was very lucky to make his debut in a championship calibre car (I think it's right to say that if one of the Lewis/ Alonso finishing orders had been reversed then one of them would have won the title rather than Kimi), and at a time when there wasn't a single dominant team/ driver.

 

It's a shame RB couldn't get it together fully until this year. The battles between Lewis and Max could have been Prost/ Senna levels if they had a few years of both having championship calibre cars. And then with the new rules next year it's likely that they won't both be right at the front - so this could be our only chance to see these two in an all-out evenly matched title fight.

Lewis's greatest strength was his personal Self motivation and belief, as it was he who told Ron Dennis that he wanted to drive for McLaren one day, and that is what got him the best seat in the house at that time.

Lucky = Yes, Determined =Yes, Confident = Yes.

[Hobby]

All the attributes of a top driver: Yes.

[iak]

Well with all the dust settled after the French GP?

I'm rather enjoying the banter between Toto and Horner. 

Angry Toto is rather entertaining in a strange way, whilst Horner is just annoying. 

Mercedes need to sort the strategy out; they are being too predictable. 

RB, as ever, are daring. With the pitcrew they have, it seems they can adapt almost at will.

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, Andrew P said:

 

Of all the drivers on the grid, Lewis has had a lucky start with McLaren, and then made what I thought at the time was a silly move to Merc, but his one and only move has made him consistent with the Team built around him, hence his continued success. 

 

Hamilton's move to Mercedes seemed to be less of a surprise to those within F1 than to outsiders. The mode to hybrid engines for 2014 was a huge change, even by F1 standards & it seemed many within F1 knew that Mercedes were well in advance of others with their engine design.

 

Being successful in F1 also has a lot to do with how a driver can build a relationship within the team, even to the point of manipulation:

Prost & Senna: Prost won the title, Senna stayed.

Mansell: He was disliked by many within Lotus. He was unable to defend his title because his contract was not renewed. Senna had already signed for Williams by then but surely another team could have snapped up Mansell?
Alonso: Signed by McLaren as double world champion, but soon felt unfavoured within the team & even tried to destroy his new team from within by exposing stolen documents. (I believe this goes on a lot more within the sport but is usually impossible to prove).

Hamilton & Rosberg: Rosberg retired after winning in 2016.

 

 

[Zomboid]

30 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Hamilton's move to Mercedes seemed to be less of a surprise to those within F1 than to outsiders. The mode to hybrid engines for 2014 was a huge change, even by F1 standards & it seemed many within F1 knew that Mercedes were well in advance of others with their engine design

Obviously it all worked out for him, but wouldn't be have had Mercedes engines at McLaren at that point too? Or had they already signed up to Honda?

[Oldddudders]

Lewis spends a lot of time praising those back at the ranch. Apart from Bottas's radio outburst, there has been a conspicuous lack of grumpiness among the Mercedes drivers and crew. "Lewis, this one is on us," strategist  James Vowles told Lewis. But Rosberg has rubbished both drivers for not defending harder when the RBs were hovering with intent. Well done - we can all do that, Nico. 

 

Oh, and I assume Rosie, the lady who made the clever call that trumped RB a couple of races back, is still on her maternity leave. I hope when she becomes a mum there is a crate of champoo from Mercedes.

[rocor]

4 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Yes Max is into his 6th season, (First F1 Race Austria 2015) and yet his Poles and Wins are still in single figures, mainly due I would say to his many early mistakes, which now seem a distant memory, and having both Lewis and the Vet as strong title contenders for his first couple of seasons. 

He also had a less than competitive car which was a major factor.

Of all the drivers on the grid, Lewis has had a lucky start with McLaren, and then made what I thought at the time was a silly move to Merc, but his one and only move has made him consistent with the Team built around him, hence his continued success. 

 

Max's win in France is his 13th (that matches David Coulthard's total). He won seven races before he achieved his first pole position, that alone is a F1 record.

[Andrew P]

3 hours ago, rocor said:

 

Max's win in France is his 13th (that matches David Coulthard's total). He won seven races before he achieved his first pole position, that alone is a F1 record.

Thank you kind Sir, I stand corrected.

I hadn't realised he had had so many wins, although one can never forget his first and in a New Car and Team as well. 

[RJS1977]

6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Lewis spends a lot of time praising those back at the ranch. Apart from Bottas's radio outburst, there has been a conspicuous lack of grumpiness among the Mercedes drivers and crew. "Lewis, this one is on us," strategist  James Vowles told Lewis.

 

I don't know, Lewis does have a bit of a grumble at times when he finds he hasn't come out of the pits in the position he expected to be - although by the end of the race it's usually back to "we win and we lose together", and he does give credit to the team when everything goes well.

[LNERandBR]

At least when Lewis grumbles he's not 'effing and blinding' away like Max does. Even when he was younger and less mature Lewis still seemed to censor himself. 

 

Yes the words said over the radio are 'heat of the moment'. However when it's getting played out to a TV audience we want to be hearing it asap for the context and that cannot happen if they're having to check and stick 'beeps' over every second word.

[Pete the Elaner]

1 minute ago, LNERandBR said:

At least when Lewis grumbles he's not 'effing and blinding' away like Max does. Even when he was younger and less mature Lewis still seemed to censor himself. 

 

Yes the words said over the radio are 'heat of the moment'. However when it's getting played out to a TV audience we want to be hearing it asap for the context and that cannot happen if they're having to check and stick 'beeps' over every second word.

 

They are both tough competitors. If they were more relaxed about things not going their way, they would be unlikely to have such a competitive attitude.

 

They also need the ability to put problems out of their mind quickly & focus on the task in hand. Hamilton & Verstappen both seem good at this too.

Towards the end of the race, Hamilton pointed out that he told the team that 2 stops were necessary. Bottas was still angry & swearing about it, hinting that it may possibly have been distracting him for the 2nd half of the race.

[LNERandBR]

9 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

They are both tough competitors. If they were more relaxed about things not going their way, they would be unlikely to have such a competitive attitude.

 

They also need the ability to put problems out of their mind quickly & focus on the task in hand. Hamilton & Verstappen both seem good at this too.

Towards the end of the race, Hamilton pointed out that he told the team that 2 stops were necessary. Bottas was still angry & swearing about it, hinting that it may possibly have been distracting him for the 2nd half of the race.

 

I think you misunderstand. 

 

Showing passion and getting upset over things not going your way is fine. As I mentioned, Lewis has shown that passion in the past without resorting to swearing. However, using lots of bad language to do so sets a poor example.

 

Max's tirade in Monaco comes to mind. I agree that he has a right to be upset because he was on a good flying lap and had lost it. However, there a red flag for a reason, most likely because someone has crashed and could be hurt.

[Andrew P]

58 minutes ago, LNERandBR said:

At least when Lewis grumbles he's not 'effing and blinding' away like Max does. Even when he was younger and less mature Lewis still seemed to censor himself. 

 

Yes the words said over the radio are 'heat of the moment'. However when it's getting played out to a TV audience we want to be hearing it asap for the context and that cannot happen if they're having to check and stick 'beeps' over every second word.

I think with Lewis, it was his up bringing, he doesn't seem like the sweary sort, like his father.

[rocor]

2 hours ago, LNERandBR said:

At least when Lewis grumbles he's not 'effing and blinding' away like Max does. Even when he was younger and less mature Lewis still seemed to censor himself. 

 

Yes the words said over the radio are 'heat of the moment'. However when it's getting played out to a TV audience we want to be hearing it asap for the context and that cannot happen if they're having to check and stick 'beeps' over every second word.

 

The drivers whose first language is not English tend to use the F word more often, they have probably, from the context in which it is used in a racing team, interpreted it as a technical term to describe conditions that are suboptimal.

[Andrew P]

46 minutes ago, rocor said:

 

The drivers whose first language is not English tend to use the F word more often, they have probably, from the context in which it is used in a racing team, interpreted it as a technical term to describe conditions that are suboptimal.

Yes indeed, ask Yuki Toshiba, or whatever his name is.

[Andrew P]

So where would this leave George Russell?

 

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/66561/hamilton-calls-on-mercedes-to-retain-bottas-after-starting-talks-on-new-contract/?fbclid=IwAR3J4mMGZrRndSCkjxx_X1RQbblkvIlBNT0pxM5YJ81Z7SxShLPkQUIPgLM

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/24/hamilton-begins-mercedes-contract-talks-wants-bottas-to-remain-as-team-mate/

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/57600519

 

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/31701270/lewis-hamilton-opens-contract-talks-keen-valtteri-bottas-stay

[friscopete]

Who knows ?.Maybe Bottas is a dream test driver  that sets the car up for a greater driver .Happened lots of times before  .  .Barichello is brought to mind and David Coulthard. Both kept by teams for their abilities other than winning .They lack the final killer moment  themselves but can set a car up to get the maximum they cant themselves achieve .

I can quote a certain chief mechanic who said to me .Blah blah isnt a great race  driver but he is great test driver .The other one wins races but only only knows which end is the front as its got a point  on it .

Edited June 24, 2021 by friscopete

[PaulRhB]

3 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

So where would this leave George Russell?

Note the comment from Lewis “ When I say team-mate, it is not just about driver performance, it is about team morale,“

He’s looking at this season as he knows he needs Valterri’s support with RB being equal. He can’t afford to dump his wingman as Bottas between him and the RB’s can make the critical points difference in the long run. 
It may be that he has a ‘bigger view’ privately but he is focused on this season and frankly he’s right to keep the team tight as they need to improve after three problem races. Mercedes have cracks appearing and Lewis knows what happens when the two drivers are at war from Nico and Fernando  

[Andrew P]

5 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Note the comment from Lewis “ When I say team-mate, it is not just about driver performance, it is about team morale,“

He’s looking at this season as he knows he needs Valterri’s support with RB being equal. He can’t afford to dump his wingman as Bottas between him and the RB’s can make the critical points difference in the long run. 
It may be that he has a ‘bigger view’ privately but he is focused on this season and frankly he’s right to keep the team tight as they need to improve after three problem races. Mercedes have cracks appearing and Lewis knows what happens when the two drivers are at war from Nico and Fernando  

That makes me wonder if he has said the same privately to Toto

Edited June 24, 2021 by Andrew P

[Andrew P]

Hamilton never tells me who he wants for a team mate – Wolff.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/25/hamilton-never-tells-me-who-he-wants-for-a-team-mate-wolff/

[Andrew P]

Red Bull’s head of aerodynamics moves to Aston Martin as technical director

 

https://www.racefans.net/2021/06/25/red-bulls-head-of-aerodynamics-moves-to-aston-martin-as-technical-director/