Zomboid Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 20 hours ago, Gareth Collier said: Testing didn't really reveal anything other than the Alpine's livery looks very dull and Williams looked a mess. I quite like Alpine's blue colour. Not sure it's enough to make up for the loss of bright pink cars elsewhere though. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Collier Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 9 hours ago, black and decker boy said: I find this whole “Russian flags cannot take part in sport but this non-denomination athlete that was born in Russia is OK to compete” completely bizarre and PC if they are banned then ban them. If not then let them compete. We all know they are Russian. The Russians know they are Russian. The sponsors (Russian) know they are Russian. only WADA think that a Russian wearing a plain white uniform isn’t a Russian. the car isn’t displaying a flag. It’s got stripes. The fact the stripes are the same colour & order as a certain flag don’t make it a flag. As such, it isn’t banned, only the flag is banned. Yes it’s a loophole but F1 (and professional sport) exists on loopholes. I completely agree with you over the ban but can't agree over "the car isn’t displaying a flag. It's got stripes". It is quite clearly the Russian flag, especially where it is on the engine cowling unless it is the biggest coincidence ever! They know the rules and like all things F1 are seeing how far they can push things except this time it's not a FIA rule they're testing. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, Gareth Collier said: I completely agree with you over the ban but can't agree over "the car isn’t displaying a flag. It's got stripes". It is quite clearly the Russian flag, especially where it is on the engine cowling unless it is the biggest coincidence ever! They know the rules and like all things F1 are seeing how far they can push things except this time it's not a FIA rule they're testing. The front wing is also very prominent and looks more like a flag. But they say the design was done before the ban and are claiming it a coincidence. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, 57xx said: NO other country uses the horizontal tricolour in THAT order. Anyone trying to muddy the waters by saying other flags use the same colours is being very disingenuous. Did anyone bother to follow the link on my first post several pages ago?!!! If they had they would see that two other countries use the colours in that order, but the difference is that both of them (Slovakia and Slovenia) have a symbol or coat of arms on the flag, Russia is the only one that uses the colours without any embellishment. Here's the link again: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_flags_with_blue,_red,_and_white_stripes I have to agree with WADA on this, they are trying to be clever and circumnavigate the ban, that is beyond doubt, but they've been caught out. In answer to an earlier post, yes, F1 does rely on designers and engineers pushing the rules as far as they can, and if' they are caught and it's proven they've broken them they have to take off the changes. This is no different. Edited March 13, 2021 by Hobby 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2021 Ultimately only WADA cares It’s use is as clearly a flag representation as flag body suits and athletics gear worn my most Lycra clad athletes and Coulthards Saltaire helmets Whether they hold any sway on the F1 money machine we will have to wait and see. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Hobby said: they had they would see that two other countries use the colours in that order, but the difference is that both of them (Slovakia and Slovenia) have a symbol or coat of arms on the flag, Russia is the only one that uses the colours without any embellishment Maybe it's unfamiliarity with the others on my part, but the shade of blue in particular is very distinctive on the Russian flag. Unmistakable, I'd say. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Zomboid said: Maybe it's unfamiliarity with the others on my part, but the shade of blue in particular is very distinctive on the Russian flag. Unmistakable, I'd say. Even the WHITE is the same shade. Edited March 13, 2021 by Andrew P 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted March 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, Andrew P said: The front wing is also very prominent and looks more like a flag. But they say the design was done before the ban and are claiming it a coincidence. As I said, there are people being extremely disingenuous (not looking at you Gunter... much...). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 48 minutes ago, PaulRhB said: Ultimately only WADA cares Not strictly true, the FIA agreed to follow the ban so ultimately they do as well.. The reason for the colour change was supposed to be because of the sponsorship by Uralkali, one of Daddy M's many business interests, strangely up until the announcement of this sponsorship deal their corporate colours have been green and another colour... However since the sponsorship they've started using the white/red/blue colours... Though their web page doesn't... If the FIA don't act then Putin et all will be laughing their silly heads off. https://www.uralkali.com/ 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, Hobby said: Not strictly true, the FIA agreed to follow the ban so ultimately they do as well.. I meant only WADA will pursue this, it’s not relevant to fans and social media pressure. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 If the FIA are doing their job they should as well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 11 hours ago, black and decker boy said: I find this whole “Russian flags cannot take part in sport but this non-denomination athlete that was born in Russia is OK to compete” completely bizarre and PC if they are banned then ban them. If not then let them compete. We all know they are Russian. The Russians know they are Russian. The sponsors (Russian) know they are Russian. only WADA think that a Russian wearing a plain white uniform isn’t a Russian. the car isn’t displaying a flag. It’s got stripes. The fact the stripes are the same colour & order as a certain flag don’t make it a flag. As such, it isn’t banned, only the flag is banned. Yes it’s a loophole but F1 (and professional sport) exists on loopholes. I think to ban all Russian athletes from all sports from competing would punish those who haven't cheated as well as those who have. Particularly in professional sports, that would be to deny those athletes their source of income. We know that some athletes in some sports cheated, and indeed that the authorities in those sports were behind the cheating. Those athletes who were caught cheating will have received substantial or at least long-term bans from their sports. Why do the Russian sporting authorities encourage cheating? Because of the prestige victory brings to their country. Having a athlete stand on a podium underneath their flag to receive a medal or a trophy while their national anthem plays is a moment of national pride. Having someone stand under a 'neutral' flag with a neutral anthem is not - in fact in those circumstances it's almost preferable to the athlete's home country for them not to win, as it's a reminder that their country is in disgrace! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Its only testing and doesn't really mean anything much, but as someone who finds it easy to get behind both McLaren and Danny R, it's nice to see that the orange cars are doing pretty well so far. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold kipford Posted March 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2021 Quote I think Bombardier sponsored Racing Point last season, or maybe Stroll in particular. Seem to remember commenting on seeing it. My thought at the time was the Canadian connection. You are quite correct should have done a more thorough check. This is the complete list of Racing Points 2020 sponsors. Bombardier, Breast Cancer Care, BWT, Canadalife, Claro, Infinitum, JCB, Magnesium, NEC, SpScore.com, Sport Pesa, Telcel, Telmex, Acronis, Adaptavist, Alpinestars, IFS, OrangeBus, Ravenol, Univa, 3D Systems, Condeco, EBB3, GTECHNIQ, Hackett, Macauley, RNT Rausch, SAS, Schuberth, STL, UPS Direct, Voip Unlimited and Pirelli. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 2 hours ago, RJS1977 said: I think to ban all Russian athletes from all sports from competing would punish those who haven't cheated as well as those who have. Particularly in professional sports, that would be to deny those athletes their source of income. We know that some athletes in some sports cheated, and indeed that the authorities in those sports were behind the cheating. Those athletes who were caught cheating will have received substantial or at least long-term bans from their sports. Why do the Russian sporting authorities encourage cheating? Because of the prestige victory brings to their country. Having a athlete stand on a podium underneath their flag to receive a medal or a trophy while their national anthem plays is a moment of national pride. Having someone stand under a 'neutral' flag with a neutral anthem is not - in fact in those circumstances it's almost preferable to the athlete's home country for them not to win, as it's a reminder that their country is in disgrace! I doubt the Russians care. Their athletes are still competing and some will still win. As I said, everyone knows they are Russian, the sponsors will still offer deals and the Russian public will still cheer (and buy the sponsors products). The Russian public are likely to just see it as a western conspiracy to stop them winning. Are you seriously suggesting that U.K. would not see Lewis Hamilton, Jimmy Anderson, Anthony Joshua, Ben Ainslie etc as a hero if they had to compete & win under a white flag? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 4 hours ago, RJS1977 said: I think to ban all Russian athletes from all sports from competing would punish those who haven't cheated as well as those who have. Which is why they haven't!! https://www.skysports.com/olympics/news/15234/12165525/russias-olympic-ban-upheld-but-reduced-to-two-years-from-four-by-court-of-arbitration-for-sport 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, Hobby said: Which is why they haven't!! https://www.skysports.com/olympics/news/15234/12165525/russias-olympic-ban-upheld-but-reduced-to-two-years-from-four-by-court-of-arbitration-for-sport I know they haven't - which is what I was trying to explain to the previous poster :-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, black and decker boy said: I doubt the Russians care. Their athletes are still competing and some will still win. As I said, everyone knows they are Russian, the sponsors will still offer deals and the Russian public will still cheer (and buy the sponsors products). The Russian public are likely to just see it as a western conspiracy to stop them winning. Are you seriously suggesting that U.K. would not see Lewis Hamilton, Jimmy Anderson, Anthony Joshua, Ben Ainslie etc as a hero if they had to compete & win under a white flag? I'm not saying that the competitors wouldn't be seen as heroes - however there is definitely an emotional reaction to seeing a compatriot receiving a prize underneath their own flag and with their own national anthem playing which isn't there if they receive it under a neutral flag. The neutral flag also reminds the world that "we caught this country cheating" (even if not in the same sport) which I don't think is something any country wants to see above their athletes. I think the punishment handed out by WADA is whilst not perfect, probably the best compromise that can be achieved between drawing attention to what the Russian sporting authorities have done without potentially punishing innocent competitors. (I'm sure that if the GB Olympics team were found to have cheated and WADA decided to bar all British competitors from competing we would say it was unfair that Lewis and George had been banned from competing for something that wasn't their fault). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 I thought this thread was about F1? After all the weeks about who will be doing what, they are actually driving cars around the track In Bahrain right now. After Hamilton's first lap yesterday, he put out a radio message for the crew to get his old pedals ready. This sounded a bit unusual. He explained in an interview today that he had made some changes to his driving position which felt good in the simulator but instantly felt wrong once he got out on the track. It is still windy on day 2, but nothing like the sandstorm they had yesterday, so the teams should be able to get some more useful data. I know the times are not indicative of where teams will be but Ricciardo looks like he has settled into the McLaren quite quickly. It will be interesting to see how he compares to Norris once they get racing. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Mercedes make F1 testing progress despite Lewis Hamilton spin. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56387626 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 28 minutes ago, Andrew P said: Mercedes make F1 testing progress despite Lewis Hamilton spin. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/56387626 If you don't overdo it once in a while, do you really know where the limit is? If you don't break the rules once in a while, do you really know how much the stewards/referee will tolerate? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
didcot Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Such a shame. Murray was the voice of my childhood. Still laugh hard when I think of him poking Mansell's bump and shared a tear when Hill became World Champion. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted March 13, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 13, 2021 Day two went a little better for Mercedes and Ferrari, but only a little. Neither car looks 'planted' and they each have a lot of progress to make to secure leading positions in F1 this season. Red Bull had another fine day - until Perez pulled out from behind another car and his engine cover blew off in a lot of pieces. Some re-design needed, as I expect both drivers to do a lot of overtaking this season! Aston Martin had a gearbox issue - just as gearbox manufacturer Merc did yesterday. The alfa teams - Tauri and Romeo, are both showing great pace and reliability, so that is most promising for the midfield. McLaren were stellar - Norris and Ricci are a great team. Alpine are difficult to rate, and Williams and Haas do not inspire so far. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 RIP Murray, A true gent and great ambassador to British Motor Sport. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 27 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: Day two went a little better for Mercedes and Ferrari, but only a little. Neither car looks 'planted' and they each have a lot of progress to make to secure leading positions in F1 this season. Red Bull had another fine day - until Perez pulled out from behind another car and his engine cover blew off in a lot of pieces. Some re-design needed, as I expect both drivers to do a lot of overtaking this season! Aston Martin had a gearbox issue - just as gearbox manufacturer Merc did yesterday. The alfa teams - Tauri and Romeo, are both showing great pace and reliability, so that is most promising for the midfield. McLaren were stellar - Norris and Ricci are a great team. Alpine are difficult to rate, and Williams and Haas do not inspire so far. I think we might see more from Williams tomorrow in the hands of George Russell, and then I think Lewis might just get it together as well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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