Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[Jeff Smith]

I believe rail is produced by drawing through dies.  Dies do wear so there will likely be some slight variation in batches.

[Donw]

When I first tried EM I think the rail came from the EM gauge society and the  rail was easier to curve than the Peco rail. When the len Newman chairs first became available I bought some sold by Alan Gibson. These later became the C+L range The Peco rail  was not suitable for those chairs.

Don

 

[Gilbert]

1 minute ago, Donw said:

When I first tried EM I think the rail came from the EM gauge society and the  rail was easier to curve than the Peco rail. When the len Newman chairs first became available I bought some sold by Alan Gibson. These later became the C+L range The Peco rail  was not suitable for those chairs.

Don

 

Can anyone confirm if the C&L will fit comfortably in the Finetrax chairs?

TIA

Chris

[Captain Kernow]

3 hours ago, Gilbert said:

Can anyone confirm if the C&L will fit comfortably in the Finetrax chairs?

TIA

Chris

I'll have a look tomorrow, Chris, but I'm too knackered tonight after going abroad to Kernow for the day...

 

An alternative might be to respectfully ask @Wayne Kinney where his Code 75 bullhead rail is sourced. If it's from C&L, the question is answered!

 

[Gilbert]

4 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I'll have a look tomorrow, Chris, but I'm too knackered tonight after going abroad to Kernow for the day...

 

An alternative might be to respectfully ask @Wayne Kinney where his Code 75 bullhead rail is sourced. If it's from C&L, the question is answered!

 

Thank you Captain - I had hoped it was sufficient to pose the question here but no doubt he's a busy man.....I shall re-ask nearer to Scaleforum when I hope C&L will be present with 4mm supplies..

Chris

[Wayne Kinney]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

An alternative might be to respectfully ask @Wayne Kinney where his Code 75 bullhead rail is sourced. If it's from C&L, the question is answered!

 

The EMGS, I'm very sure that C&L uses the same rail profile...

Edited August 29 by Wayne Kinney

[hayfield]

During the Templot developments, rail sizes has been discussed without too much of a conclusion

 

I have over time whilst helping out Phil on the C&L stand discussed rail. From memory both code 75 and 125 rail was brought from a suppler using the suppliers tools to draw the rail. Phil now owns the tool to draw code 131 rail for his own use, I don't believe Phil owns a tool for code 75

 

Code 75 is a standard which has specifications allowing for maximum and minimum sizes, the question is. is there only 1 suppler or more, secondly as the tools are used they wear out and need replacing (my farther was a wire drawer and he constantly had to monitor the actual finished sizes of wire being drawn) in short a new tool will produce a thinner section of rail, at the end of the tools life the rail will be fractionally bigger.

 

Now providing the rail keeps within specification code 75 should all be the same size and modern * stock should be compatible, though we have seen Peco describe their code 75 bullhead rail alter the foot of the rails profile slightly and still call it code 75 bullhead !!

 

* I have some very old rail from the 60's/70's where the quality of the wire drawing not up to todays standards 

 

In 7 mm scale we have found code 125 to be over scale in some areas. Scale and gauge specifications may not be the same. 

 

 

[Dominion]

I have been working with British Finescale OO kits and C&L rail with Exactoscale chairs and C&L flex track, and Peco bullhead turnouts and flex track all simultaneously.

I keep the 3 rail types separate from each other, to be sure.  The Peco rail is definitely different. I think there may be a bit of small variability between my groups of C&L rail and the BFS rail when I measure them, but it may not be anymore than the variability within the 2 groups. I haven’t done enough measurements to know a pattern for sure. 

However I often use Exactoscale chairs on Wayne’s provided rail when I am extending his kits by an inch or so where appropriate. These have always worked together fine. 
 

I have also used exactoscale chairs on Peco turnout rail when replacing the last 1 or 2 timbers on the Peco turn outs. This also works fine. 

I have not recently tried the C&L rail in the BFS track base to know for sure. My C&L rail stock is about 10 years old.

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, Dominion said:

 

I have not recently tried the C&L rail in the BFS track base to know for sure. My C&L rail stock is about 10 years old.

 

Should be fine

[Captain Kernow]

On 29/08/2024 at 20:00, Gilbert said:

Thank you Captain - I had hoped it was sufficient to pose the question here but no doubt he's a busy man.....I shall re-ask nearer to Scaleforum when I hope C&L will be present with 4mm supplies..

Chris

Chris - just tested some recent C&L Code 75 bullhead rail into a recent purchase British Finetrax point base - the rail goes in very easily.

 

[n9]

Wiring/soldering/mechanical double slip question:

 

I'm pretty sure there is minor rotation on the tie-bar pins relative to the tie-bar when the blades are thrown.

 

If I solder the two middle pin-heads together, is that going to stress the pins so much it will lead to breakage as a consequence of throwing the point over time?

 

 

 

 

I'm just looking at ways of avoiding ugly wires being visible, as well as minimising the number of them needed. An electrical join there would be perfect for this purpose.

 

 

Edited September 4 by n9

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, n9 said:

If I solder the two middle pin-heads together, is that going to stress the pins so much it will lead to breakage as a consequence of throwing the point over time?

Probably not but you might find that the switches don't fit up properly.

[Dominion]

I solder the relevant rails together in the gaps Wayne provides either side of there in your picture.

 

For track feeds sometimes I use the same spots but I also often have the rail extend beyond the printed base with an extra sleeper or 2 and solder the the feeds to the extra rail there 

[n9]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Probably not but you might find that the switches don't fit up properly.

Thank you. I will take it as "a bad idea" to impede any movement of the pins.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dominion said:

I solder the relevant rails together in the gaps Wayne provides either side of there in your picture.

 

For track feeds sometimes I use the same spots but I also often have the rail extend beyond the printed base with an extra sleeper or 2 and solder the the feeds to the extra rail there 

 

Thank you, but I was trying to come up with ways to avoid ending up with lots of visible wires.

 

To that end, elsewhere on the slip, I opted for 1x0.2mm brass strip. But I soldered it at 90 degrees:

 

 

Which leads me to...

 

Wiring/soldering/mechanical double slip question #2:

 

I noticed there was lengthwise movement in the two middle switch blades as the point is thrown. Something like a 0.2mm opposite swing on each blade:

 

 

How important is it not to impede that movement? (Neither outer switch blade moves, because there is no insulation gap to allow movement.)

 

What I'm getting at is, will it cause problems if I use the same 90 degree brass strip technique at the point shown here? I've chosen this location because it's the first place that has fixed (not slide-) chairs either side of it:

 

If the movement is important, and the soldered brass strip will be too rigid, I'll resign myself to thicker wire.

 

Thank you.

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

8 minutes ago, n9 said:

I'll resign myself to thicker wire.

 

You don't need thicker wire, 7/02 or equivalent will be more than adequate.

 

Mike.

[Dominion]

No problem preventing the length ways movement you refer to in my experience.

I normally solder a bridging wire from those rails to others for electrical continuity and that definitely stops them moving laterally and there has been no problem doing that.

Good luck. Tom

[n9]

11 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

You don't need thicker wire, 7/02 or equivalent will be more than adequate.

 

Mike.

Yes it will, but I think that's 0.4mm dia, which is twice the profile of the 0.2mm strip at 90 degrees. Unfortunately, that's how retentively I'm thinking about all of this! 😁

 

Any other opinions on my brass strip solution? Is it too stiff for the movement in those two middle switch blades? And if it prevents that movement, is it a problem?

[n9]

1 minute ago, Dominion said:

No problem preventing the length ways movement you refer to in my experience.

I normally solder a bridging wire from those rails to others for electrical continuity and that definitely stops them moving laterally and there has been no problem doing that.

Good luck. Tom

Just saw your reply. Thank you!

[Dominion]

I am modelling in 4mm incidentally. Suggest you keep your rigid connection as close to the centre as you can so that the blades can still move without too much resistance.

In 4mm my rigid links are towards the centre side of the gaps left under in the printed base. 

Certainly no problem on a single slip. On a double it does add a bit of physical resistance, and I have had to change a couple of my slow acting point motor actuator wires up to 1mm diameter instead of the normal 0.8mm supplied with the motors.

 

I did try using thin wire with a  z bend or omega loop for the electrical continuity wires underneath and ended up adopting the rigid connection as it was simpler to solder quickly, without adding too much heat. I actually use redundant resistors with thin pre tinned legs placed across the space on the underside which sits nicely during soldering and then I nip the middle and ends out  !

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, n9 said:

Yes it will, but I think that's 0.4mm dia, which is twice the profile of the 0.2mm strip at 90 degrees. Unfortunately, that's how retentively I'm thinking about all of this! 😁

 

Any other opinions on my brass strip solution? Is it too stiff for the movement in those two middle switch blades? And if it prevents that movement, is it a problem?

 

7/02 is 0.2mm cross section, so considerably smaller than 0.2 by 0.2 strip.

 

Mike,

[n9]

1 hour ago, Dominion said:

I am modelling in 4mm incidentally. Suggest you keep your rigid connection as close to the centre as you can so that the blades can still move without too much resistance.

In 4mm my rigid links are towards the centre side of the gaps left under in the printed base. 

Certainly no problem on a single slip. On a double it does add a bit of physical resistance, and I have had to change a couple of my slow acting point motor actuator wires up to 1mm diameter instead of the normal 0.8mm supplied with the motors.

 

I did try using thin wire with a  z bend or omega loop for the electrical continuity wires underneath and ended up adopting the rigid connection as it was simpler to solder quickly, without adding too much heat. I actually use redundant resistors with thin pre tinned legs placed across the space on the underside which sits nicely during soldering and then I nip the middle and ends out  !

 

Gah, the point of using 0.2mm strip, is that when it's up against the sleeper and painted it's so thin that it would look like part of the sleeper. But if it needs to span the rails equidistant (or thereabouts) between sleepers, then that's only marginally better than putting a flexible wire across.

 

Think it might have to end up being be a dropper on each blade going down vertically through the board.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

7/02 is 0.2mm cross section, so considerably smaller than 0.2 by 0.2 strip.

 

Mike,

 

Sorry, I'm more used to AWG. By 7/02 do you mean 7/0.2? If so, I understand that to be 7 strands, with each individual strand being 0.2mm across. But all strands taken together, that's considerably thicker, isn't it?

 

Are you suggesting a single strand is sufficient? Or have I completely misunderstood? (Very likely the latter!)
 

(Btw, the strip is 1x0.2mm, but it's that 0.2mm edge that I wanted to be visible when looking down at the turnout.)

[Dominion]

I meant close to the centre of the diamond within that open space, not centre of the space between the timbers. That sounds like it would suit your plan ?

[Grovenor]

On 29/08/2024 at 16:49, Donw said:

When I first tried EM I think the rail came from the EM gauge society and the  rail was easier to curve than the Peco rail. When the len Newman chairs first became available I bought some sold by Alan Gibson. These later became the C+L range The Peco rail  was not suitable for those chairs.

Don

 

Don, Given the dates when Len Newman chairs became available were long before Peco produced any code 75 bullhead. I think you must be referring to the original Peco individuallay bull head that was quite a bit larger.

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, n9 said:

 

Gah, the point of using 0.2mm strip, is that when it's up against the sleeper and painted it's so thin that it would look like part of the sleeper. But if it needs to span the rails equidistant (or thereabouts) between sleepers, then that's only marginally better than putting a flexible wire across.

 

Think it might have to end up being be a dropper on each blade going down vertically through the board.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm more used to AWG. By 7/02 do you mean 7/0.2? If so, I understand that to be 7 strands, with each individual strand being 0.2mm across. But all strands taken together, that's considerably thicker, isn't it?

 

Are you suggesting a single strand is sufficient? Or have I completely misunderstood? (Very likely the latter!)
 

(Btw, the strip is 1x0.2mm, but it's that 0.2mm edge that I wanted to be visible when looking down at the turnout.)

 

Yes, only ever called strand/diameter wire without the point, laziness?!!

I don't know about a single strand, but I've used 3 or 4 strands when in a really tight corner.

DCC loco wire is even thinner I think?

 

Mike.

Edited September 4 by Enterprisingwestern
Afterthought.

[The Evil Bus Driver]

Hmm. I might have to go and raid the Scalefour stand at either Not Warley or GETS.