Jeff Smith Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I believe rail is produced by drawing through dies. Dies do wear so there will likely be some slight variation in batches. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted August 29 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29 When I first tried EM I think the rail came from the EM gauge society and the rail was easier to curve than the Peco rail. When the len Newman chairs first became available I bought some sold by Alan Gibson. These later became the C+L range The Peco rail was not suitable for those chairs. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 29 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29 1 minute ago, Donw said: When I first tried EM I think the rail came from the EM gauge society and the rail was easier to curve than the Peco rail. When the len Newman chairs first became available I bought some sold by Alan Gibson. These later became the C+L range The Peco rail was not suitable for those chairs. Don Can anyone confirm if the C&L will fit comfortably in the Finetrax chairs? TIA Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 29 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29 3 hours ago, Gilbert said: Can anyone confirm if the C&L will fit comfortably in the Finetrax chairs? TIA Chris I'll have a look tomorrow, Chris, but I'm too knackered tonight after going abroad to Kernow for the day... An alternative might be to respectfully ask @Wayne Kinney where his Code 75 bullhead rail is sourced. If it's from C&L, the question is answered! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 29 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 29 4 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said: I'll have a look tomorrow, Chris, but I'm too knackered tonight after going abroad to Kernow for the day... An alternative might be to respectfully ask @Wayne Kinney where his Code 75 bullhead rail is sourced. If it's from C&L, the question is answered! Thank you Captain - I had hoped it was sufficient to pose the question here but no doubt he's a busy man.....I shall re-ask nearer to Scaleforum when I hope C&L will be present with 4mm supplies.. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Kinney Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said: An alternative might be to respectfully ask @Wayne Kinney where his Code 75 bullhead rail is sourced. If it's from C&L, the question is answered! The EMGS, I'm very sure that C&L uses the same rail profile... Edited August 29 by Wayne Kinney 2 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 During the Templot developments, rail sizes has been discussed without too much of a conclusion I have over time whilst helping out Phil on the C&L stand discussed rail. From memory both code 75 and 125 rail was brought from a suppler using the suppliers tools to draw the rail. Phil now owns the tool to draw code 131 rail for his own use, I don't believe Phil owns a tool for code 75 Code 75 is a standard which has specifications allowing for maximum and minimum sizes, the question is. is there only 1 suppler or more, secondly as the tools are used they wear out and need replacing (my farther was a wire drawer and he constantly had to monitor the actual finished sizes of wire being drawn) in short a new tool will produce a thinner section of rail, at the end of the tools life the rail will be fractionally bigger. Now providing the rail keeps within specification code 75 should all be the same size and modern * stock should be compatible, though we have seen Peco describe their code 75 bullhead rail alter the foot of the rails profile slightly and still call it code 75 bullhead !! * I have some very old rail from the 60's/70's where the quality of the wire drawing not up to todays standards In 7 mm scale we have found code 125 to be over scale in some areas. Scale and gauge specifications may not be the same. 1 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted August 30 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 30 I have been working with British Finescale OO kits and C&L rail with Exactoscale chairs and C&L flex track, and Peco bullhead turnouts and flex track all simultaneously. I keep the 3 rail types separate from each other, to be sure. The Peco rail is definitely different. I think there may be a bit of small variability between my groups of C&L rail and the BFS rail when I measure them, but it may not be anymore than the variability within the 2 groups. I haven’t done enough measurements to know a pattern for sure. However I often use Exactoscale chairs on Wayne’s provided rail when I am extending his kits by an inch or so where appropriate. These have always worked together fine. I have also used exactoscale chairs on Peco turnout rail when replacing the last 1 or 2 timbers on the Peco turn outs. This also works fine. I have not recently tried the C&L rail in the BFS track base to know for sure. My C&L rail stock is about 10 years old. 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted August 30 Share Posted August 30 2 minutes ago, Dominion said: I have not recently tried the C&L rail in the BFS track base to know for sure. My C&L rail stock is about 10 years old. Should be fine 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 31 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31 On 29/08/2024 at 20:00, Gilbert said: Thank you Captain - I had hoped it was sufficient to pose the question here but no doubt he's a busy man.....I shall re-ask nearer to Scaleforum when I hope C&L will be present with 4mm supplies.. Chris Chris - just tested some recent C&L Code 75 bullhead rail into a recent purchase British Finetrax point base - the rail goes in very easily. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n9 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 (edited) Wiring/soldering/mechanical double slip question: I'm pretty sure there is minor rotation on the tie-bar pins relative to the tie-bar when the blades are thrown. If I solder the two middle pin-heads together, is that going to stress the pins so much it will lead to breakage as a consequence of throwing the point over time? I'm just looking at ways of avoiding ugly wires being visible, as well as minimising the number of them needed. An electrical join there would be perfect for this purpose. Edited September 4 by n9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4 4 minutes ago, n9 said: If I solder the two middle pin-heads together, is that going to stress the pins so much it will lead to breakage as a consequence of throwing the point over time? Probably not but you might find that the switches don't fit up properly. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted September 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4 I solder the relevant rails together in the gaps Wayne provides either side of there in your picture. For track feeds sometimes I use the same spots but I also often have the rail extend beyond the printed base with an extra sleeper or 2 and solder the the feeds to the extra rail there 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n9 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: Probably not but you might find that the switches don't fit up properly. Thank you. I will take it as "a bad idea" to impede any movement of the pins. 1 hour ago, Dominion said: I solder the relevant rails together in the gaps Wayne provides either side of there in your picture. For track feeds sometimes I use the same spots but I also often have the rail extend beyond the printed base with an extra sleeper or 2 and solder the the feeds to the extra rail there Thank you, but I was trying to come up with ways to avoid ending up with lots of visible wires. To that end, elsewhere on the slip, I opted for 1x0.2mm brass strip. But I soldered it at 90 degrees: Which leads me to... Wiring/soldering/mechanical double slip question #2: I noticed there was lengthwise movement in the two middle switch blades as the point is thrown. Something like a 0.2mm opposite swing on each blade: How important is it not to impede that movement? (Neither outer switch blade moves, because there is no insulation gap to allow movement.) What I'm getting at is, will it cause problems if I use the same 90 degree brass strip technique at the point shown here? I've chosen this location because it's the first place that has fixed (not slide-) chairs either side of it: If the movement is important, and the soldered brass strip will be too rigid, I'll resign myself to thicker wire. Thank you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted September 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4 8 minutes ago, n9 said: I'll resign myself to thicker wire. You don't need thicker wire, 7/02 or equivalent will be more than adequate. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted September 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4 No problem preventing the length ways movement you refer to in my experience. I normally solder a bridging wire from those rails to others for electrical continuity and that definitely stops them moving laterally and there has been no problem doing that. Good luck. Tom 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n9 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 11 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: You don't need thicker wire, 7/02 or equivalent will be more than adequate. Mike. Yes it will, but I think that's 0.4mm dia, which is twice the profile of the 0.2mm strip at 90 degrees. Unfortunately, that's how retentively I'm thinking about all of this! 😁 Any other opinions on my brass strip solution? Is it too stiff for the movement in those two middle switch blades? And if it prevents that movement, is it a problem? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n9 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 minute ago, Dominion said: No problem preventing the length ways movement you refer to in my experience. I normally solder a bridging wire from those rails to others for electrical continuity and that definitely stops them moving laterally and there has been no problem doing that. Good luck. Tom Just saw your reply. Thank you! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted September 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4 I am modelling in 4mm incidentally. Suggest you keep your rigid connection as close to the centre as you can so that the blades can still move without too much resistance. In 4mm my rigid links are towards the centre side of the gaps left under in the printed base. Certainly no problem on a single slip. On a double it does add a bit of physical resistance, and I have had to change a couple of my slow acting point motor actuator wires up to 1mm diameter instead of the normal 0.8mm supplied with the motors. I did try using thin wire with a z bend or omega loop for the electrical continuity wires underneath and ended up adopting the rigid connection as it was simpler to solder quickly, without adding too much heat. I actually use redundant resistors with thin pre tinned legs placed across the space on the underside which sits nicely during soldering and then I nip the middle and ends out ! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted September 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, n9 said: Yes it will, but I think that's 0.4mm dia, which is twice the profile of the 0.2mm strip at 90 degrees. Unfortunately, that's how retentively I'm thinking about all of this! 😁 Any other opinions on my brass strip solution? Is it too stiff for the movement in those two middle switch blades? And if it prevents that movement, is it a problem? 7/02 is 0.2mm cross section, so considerably smaller than 0.2 by 0.2 strip. Mike, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
n9 Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 1 hour ago, Dominion said: I am modelling in 4mm incidentally. Suggest you keep your rigid connection as close to the centre as you can so that the blades can still move without too much resistance. In 4mm my rigid links are towards the centre side of the gaps left under in the printed base. Certainly no problem on a single slip. On a double it does add a bit of physical resistance, and I have had to change a couple of my slow acting point motor actuator wires up to 1mm diameter instead of the normal 0.8mm supplied with the motors. I did try using thin wire with a z bend or omega loop for the electrical continuity wires underneath and ended up adopting the rigid connection as it was simpler to solder quickly, without adding too much heat. I actually use redundant resistors with thin pre tinned legs placed across the space on the underside which sits nicely during soldering and then I nip the middle and ends out ! Gah, the point of using 0.2mm strip, is that when it's up against the sleeper and painted it's so thin that it would look like part of the sleeper. But if it needs to span the rails equidistant (or thereabouts) between sleepers, then that's only marginally better than putting a flexible wire across. Think it might have to end up being be a dropper on each blade going down vertically through the board. 4 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: 7/02 is 0.2mm cross section, so considerably smaller than 0.2 by 0.2 strip. Mike, Sorry, I'm more used to AWG. By 7/02 do you mean 7/0.2? If so, I understand that to be 7 strands, with each individual strand being 0.2mm across. But all strands taken together, that's considerably thicker, isn't it? Are you suggesting a single strand is sufficient? Or have I completely misunderstood? (Very likely the latter!) (Btw, the strip is 1x0.2mm, but it's that 0.2mm edge that I wanted to be visible when looking down at the turnout.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted September 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4 I meant close to the centre of the diamond within that open space, not centre of the space between the timbers. That sounds like it would suit your plan ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grovenor Posted September 4 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 4 On 29/08/2024 at 16:49, Donw said: When I first tried EM I think the rail came from the EM gauge society and the rail was easier to curve than the Peco rail. When the len Newman chairs first became available I bought some sold by Alan Gibson. These later became the C+L range The Peco rail was not suitable for those chairs. Don Don, Given the dates when Len Newman chairs became available were long before Peco produced any code 75 bullhead. I think you must be referring to the original Peco individuallay bull head that was quite a bit larger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted September 4 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, n9 said: Gah, the point of using 0.2mm strip, is that when it's up against the sleeper and painted it's so thin that it would look like part of the sleeper. But if it needs to span the rails equidistant (or thereabouts) between sleepers, then that's only marginally better than putting a flexible wire across. Think it might have to end up being be a dropper on each blade going down vertically through the board. Sorry, I'm more used to AWG. By 7/02 do you mean 7/0.2? If so, I understand that to be 7 strands, with each individual strand being 0.2mm across. But all strands taken together, that's considerably thicker, isn't it? Are you suggesting a single strand is sufficient? Or have I completely misunderstood? (Very likely the latter!) (Btw, the strip is 1x0.2mm, but it's that 0.2mm edge that I wanted to be visible when looking down at the turnout.) Yes, only ever called strand/diameter wire without the point, laziness?!! I don't know about a single strand, but I've used 3 or 4 strands when in a really tight corner. DCC loco wire is even thinner I think? Mike. Edited September 4 by Enterprisingwestern Afterthought. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Bus Driver Posted September 4 Share Posted September 4 Hmm. I might have to go and raid the Scalefour stand at either Not Warley or GETS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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