Using the easy-assembly Finetrax pointwork kits in 00 and EM (and in P4 from the S4 Society)

[martin_wynne]

16 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

Now I'm confused.

 

I thought the A and B in A5 B7 of these Turnouts and Slips referred to switch size as per this table:

 

https://85a.uk/templot/companion/real_track.php

 

If you change the Switch Size in Templot using "Template" then "Switch Settings" an A5 is extended when you change it to B5. Isn't that what The Fatadder is asking about? What am I missing here?

 

Hi,

 

That is referring to turnouts.

 

The present discussion is about slips.

 

For diamond-crossings and slips, the overall size is controlled by just 2 things -- the crossing angle and the track gauge. The type of switch used within a slip does not change its overall size. It changes the internal radius of the slip road, and the space available for the K-crossing check rails, but it does not change the overall size of the slip.

 

That becomes obvious when you remember that a slip is simply a modified diamond-crossing. A diamond-crossing does not have a switch of any type or size.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[Dominion]

Sorry Martin, Templot is a wonderful resource. 

Tom

[hayfield]

4 hours ago, Dominion said:

Big locos certainly look good and run well through the Finetrax 1:7 slips. I believe in Templot t for a double slip the blade tips start one further timber towards the centre to allow space and clearance for soldering to the tie bar arrangement and for flange clearance. Single slips could be one timber closer to the V crossings, and that maybe the default for a single in Templot. Wayne’s singles use the same spacing as the doubles. Initially I was wondering if it was worth extending the blades on the singles somehow, but the only solution would have been to do a lot of butchery or start from scratch and Wayne’s just are too good for that :-)

 

3 hours ago, Dominion said:

Sorry Martin, Templot is a wonderful resource. 

Tom

 

 

Tom

 

Its very easy to get terminology wrong, I seem to do it all the time. Likewise we are always talking about switch and crossing angles when we talk about turnouts, so its an easy mistake to include it into the conversation  about slips. Then when you get erstwhile sources talk about points, when in reality they are talking about turnouts. Lets face it when I was young turnouts purporting to be scale were classified in Radii not sizes. But I guess at times in various subjects we all fall into similar traps

 

The problem lies in RTR turnouts where the tip of the blades terminate between timbers, which is totally non prototypical. The problem is that even manufacturers at times get it wrong, I brought/was supplied a timber Diamond fret described as EM/P4. Simply it cannot be both as Martin explained. Certainly for EM gauge it was too long if you wanted both Vees supported on timbers.

 

I think sometimes the more we learn about a subject we realise the less we know.

 

Wayne has done a super job with his kits and as you say they work very well. I don't recognize Templot moving the length of switch blades, but I guess this may be something some modellers do to make life easier. Flangeway clearances are usually set by the modeller with most setting them to gauge requirements rather than to scale 

 

Thanks for contributing, that's how we learn from each other

[Captain Kernow]

On 10/04/2024 at 13:49, Nick C said:

Do you glue those on? I tried using them  on mine and found it really difficult to get them to stay in place - this might of course be down to my ham-fistedness, but I ended up breaking or losing several...

 

Alternatively can anyone recommend any other insulating fishplates that might be easier to use for code 75 Bullhead? The Peco Bullhead ones are good for conducting joints, but they don't do an insulating version...

What I do, when I sometimes find the whole process too fiddly (or have forgotten to add the Exactoscale plastic fishplates) is to cut them in half (down the inside webbing) and simply epoxy each half to the rail webbing, either side of the rail break. Best to abrade the rail webbing first, if possible. I normally use a small amount of epoxy for this and it seems to work well.

 

[woodcroft]

If the temperature changes much where your track is you may experience expansion/contraction at the joints depending on the length of rail. If so just glue the fishplates to one rail only or they may come unstuck. We found this by experience building a layout in a club room then going to exhibitions where it can get very hot!

[roythebus1]

The original MRC's 00 layout, the Longridge, Brampton Sands and Calshot Railway had an odd track system designed by a Mr. Fleetwood-Shaw (known as sheetwood floor). It was the equivalent of laser-cut plywood sleeper bases, probably punched from thin ply, with rails held on every so often with some sort of clips. It wasn't fixed down except at the ends of baseboards. At one exhibition at the Central Hall in the late 1970s the BBC turned up to do some filming. the heat of their lights made the track expand so much it rose above platform level and made train operation impossible! Luckily it was the last showing of that layout. The replacement had track fixed securely.

[St Enodoc]

4 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

The original MRC's 00 layout, the Longridge, Brampton Sands and Calshot Railway had an odd track system designed by a Mr. Fleetwood-Shaw (known as sheetwood floor). It was the equivalent of laser-cut plywood sleeper bases, probably punched from thin ply, with rails held on every so often with some sort of clips. It wasn't fixed down except at the ends of baseboards. At one exhibition at the Central Hall in the late 1970s the BBC turned up to do some filming. the heat of their lights made the track expand so much it rose above platform level and made train operation impossible! Luckily it was the last showing of that layout. The replacement had track fixed securely.

That layout is one I remember from the first Central Hall show I went to, in 1966. I'd never seen, or imagined, such a big layout before!

[n9]

Hi guys.

 

I see an N tag at the top, so hope I can post here!

 

I'm gearing up to get a few samples of Finetrax to play around with. I've been really disappointed with Peco's Code 55 frog bounce, and have shimmed one of their points and been more than surprised at the success of my ham-fisted efforts to improve running. But I suspect Finetrax will be even better, not just in performance but also in looks, as well as a lot less work to get the sort of performance I'm after.

 

Anyway, given my aversion to frog bounce, what's a good "bad" Finetrax turnout to get in to compare? Would it be a double slip? Peco's double slips seemed by far the worst train skidders and bouncers, so I figure if I'm happy with the "worst performing" Finetrax turnout, I'll be happy with them all.

 

Also, are there compatible IRJs in N? Read something earlier in this thread but I think that was for 00. Pretty sure I'll be sticking with XPS boards, and probably foam underlay replaced with something harder wherever extra strength is needed. So given these softish materials, and that generally N is less forgiving, I'm leaning towards fishplates always being a better option than no fishplates at all, even if they're weakish plastic ones. (I'm aware Finetrax turnouts prefer to sit on something hard, so happy to replace foam with cork or wood inserts in those sections - generally I'm just trying to reduce noise.)

 

Thanks!

[hayfield]

N9

 

What you call "frog bounce" is probably caused with the gauging/coarseness of the wheels

 

Whatever scale/gauge you decide on, you must match the wheel specification with the turnout standards

 

Those who model in N/2mm gauge will be much better with advice

 

I assume you model to N gauge standards, you will need to see all of your wheels comply to the track standards

[n9]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

N9

 

What you call "frog bounce" is probably caused with the gauging/coarseness of the wheels

 

Whatever scale/gauge you decide on, you must match the wheel specification with the turnout standards

 

Those who model in N/2mm gauge will be much better with advice

 

I assume you model to N gauge standards, you will need to see all of your wheels comply to the track standards

 

Thanks! But that's not the main issue I'm finding with Peco track. It's the fact that they manufacture it with very large gaps in the flangeways and crossings. It seems they do this in an effort to cater for all trains built since approximately the time of the Neanderthals 🙂 up to the present day. Most people are okay with it or ignore it, and you could argue it's quite a feat of engineering considering the lack of wheel standards, but to me the result is just dreadful - I have 4 wheel wagons (from Revolution) that will happily sit on 3 wheels when the 4th wheel (RP25 I think) falls in its entirety into the frog hole. And generally, rolling stock without bogies (from multiple manufacturers) just bounces across every single turnout. Tenders bounce too. And my 0-6-0 03 skids across Peco slips, to the point I'm reminded of what my Scalextric cars used to do on the Skid Chicane. Things with bogies tend to fare much better, but not always, Dapol's B Sets being an example.

 

Anyway, I'm reasonably certain Finetrax will cure most, if not all of my woes. I'm not really sure where best to post to get the answers. Wayne did point me to this thread a while back, but more to have a read through which I'm doing - but it's a very long read!

 

Is there a better place to post about Finetrax for N?

 

Thanks

[hayfield]

N9

 

I have been asked to build a N gauge turnout for one of Wayne's customers. Whilst I dont model in N gauge it will be interesting to compare one with he 4mm counterparts. Its in the post and I will take a few photos of the build and add a few comments.

[Wayne Kinney]

12 hours ago, n9 said:

Is there a better place to post about Finetrax for N?

 

There is an N Gauge specific thread over on the N Gauge forum:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=3280.0

 

[Donw]

One problem with N gauge is old models may have coarser wheels than modern stock.  Slight bumping at crossing can be seen in all scales where the trackwork has to accommodate a range of wheels.  The best thing would be to try a Finescale N gauge turnout and run your worst offending stock through it and see if there is an improvement and also run the oldest stuff you have through to see if it throws up problems.  I have an old Arnold diesel one of the first N gauge locos available  the wheels on that are terrible.

 

Someone mentioned painting checkrails back a page or two these are normally very rusty as are the tips of wing rails.

 

Don

[n9]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

N9

 

I have been asked to build a N gauge turnout for one of Wayne's customers. Whilst I dont model in N gauge it will be interesting to compare one with he 4mm counterparts. Its in the post and I will take a few photos of the build and add a few comments.

Would be interesting to learn how you get on!

 

2 hours ago, Donw said:

One problem with N gauge is old models may have coarser wheels than modern stock.  Slight bumping at crossing can be seen in all scales where the trackwork has to accommodate a range of wheels.  The best thing would be to try a Finescale N gauge turnout and run your worst offending stock through it and see if there is an improvement and also run the oldest stuff you have through to see if it throws up problems.  I have an old Arnold diesel one of the first N gauge locos available  the wheels on that are terrible.

 

Someone mentioned painting checkrails back a page or two these are normally very rusty as are the tips of wing rails.

 

Don

Yes, this is indeed the problem I tried to explain in my last post. No wheel standards adhered to between the manufacturers, and even within a manufacturer. Vids I've seen seem to show Finetrax N to be much much smoother than Peco code 55, and the Finetrax 2FS equivalent to be very smooth indeed. It's subjective of course, but I found that "slight bumping" on code 55 to be far too severe. Hence my questions about Finetrax N. But I'll try the forum suggested by Wayne. Shame RMWeb doesn't seem to have a dedicated spot.

[Lacathedrale]

Hopefully this is an appropriate question: I've got a couple of packs of these squirreled away from the 3mm Society. I've built a couple of turnouts using PCB in 2mmFS and with C&L components in EM and P4 - is there anything I should be aware of before starting them?

[Wayne Kinney]

11 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Hopefully this is an appropriate question: I've got a couple of packs of these squirreled away from the 3mm Society. I've built a couple of turnouts using PCB in 2mmFS and with C&L components in EM and P4 - is there anything I should be aware of before starting them?

Fully read the instructions beforehand and pay attention to where the rail positions are, the isolation gaps and more importantly, the exact location of the 'knuckle' of the crossing wing rails.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

6 minutes ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Fully read the instructions beforehand 

 

What he said!

 

I assembled mine without reference to the instructions and made the whole job harder than it should have been! 🤣

 

Saying that, I still ended up with an authentic looking and working turnout. 

 

I shall make some more once the shed is back in action.

[Lacathedrale]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

What he said!

 

I assembled mine without reference to the instructions and made the whole job harder than it should have been! 🤣

 

Saying that, I still ended up with an authentic looking and working turnout. 

 

I shall make some more once the shed is back in action.

Wait, what? You can't just stop there! Tell more - ideally in a separate thread.

[Lacathedrale]

1 hour ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Fully read the instructions beforehand and pay attention to where the rail positions are, the isolation gaps and more importantly, the exact location of the 'knuckle' of the crossing wing rails.

Thank you - so no recieved wisdom between creation and the present date? That's got to be a testament to some solid design work.

[Gilbert]

7 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

Fully read the instructions beforehand

Sorry...how does that work?

[Wayne Kinney]

1 hour ago, Gilbert said:

Sorry...how does that work?

I write them, I don't read them...😁

Edited May 19 by Wayne Kinney

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Wayne Kinney said:

Fully read the instructions beforehand and pay attention to where the rail positions are, the isolation gaps and more importantly, the exact location of the 'knuckle' of the crossing wing rails.

 

1 hour ago, Gilbert said:

Sorry...how does that work?

 

It will never catch on!

 

Mike.

[roythebus1]

This is getting silly, we can't have people reading instructions!

[KeithHC]

I thought there was just one clear instruction about instructions. Take from packaging then dispose. Whilst doing the first operation you should at no time ever read……….

 

Keith

[Jeff Smith]

The instructions that came with a laser cut 1/48th structure kit over here said - read the instructions carefully then build it any way you want to.......