Lockdown’s Last Lingerings - (Covid since L2 ended)

[simontaylor484]

I have decided to ignore this topic cos it's getting too political sniping we are where we are and have to put up with carp from all sides on this. 

[Reorte]

16 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

It's only academic if people follow the rules and if the rules are rigorously enforced - big mistake with Cummings IMHO.

 

The problem is that every person (yourself included) who publicly questions why, if it is really effective and so on actually seeds doubt in  the minds of the populace so that they do not believe (for them it is black and white) and they then do not follow the rules - either by crass and brute disobedience (raves etc.) or as described by the minister for Wales as small acts of selfishness.

I said it's academic because regardless of what's been done the current situation is that I can't see any realistic alternative to another lockdown. Cummings was an idiot for sure, people in his position need to be absolutely squeaky clean in every detail, both to the spirit and the letter of the rules, and even beyond that if possible. And people holding raves really are just sticking two fingers up at everyone else, and I get the impression have often been treated far more leniently than they deserve.

 

But questioning whilst still obeying? That cuts both ways, including questioning to say why more isn't being done. I have never said "ignore the rules." But I do think some thought is necessary. It also leads to "just because I can doesn't mean I should."

Edited January 4, 2021 by Reorte

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, simontaylor484 said:

I have decided to ignore this topic cos it's getting too political sniping we are where we are and have to put up with carp from all sides on this. 

 

Its not political to say that this Government have royally screwed up their response this winter. It wouldn't matter which 'colour' was in charge - if the prime minister was Starmer and he had behaved as Boris has then I would be just as scornfull

 

Too little too late is the pattern - which is going to cost people more in the long run.

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

It's only academic if people follow the rules and if the rules are rigorously enforced - big mistake with Cummings IMHO.

Significantly, the Scots MP who travelled by train after knowingly testing positive in September has been arrested. 

[phil-b259]

2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Significantly, the Scots MP who travelled by train after knowingly testing positive in September has been arrested. 

 

Good. We need to get tough on rule breakers.

 

Lets hope the same is true when the morons decide they need some fresh air and drive halfway across England to go for a walk!

[Hroth]

A person I know of through a friend, who was in a vulnerable group, came into contact with the virus over the Christmas period, tested positive mid last week and was admitted to a covid ward, and died this evening, a little before the PM appeared on the telly.

 

All I can say is that the threat is very real and that ALL precautions should be followed rigorously.

 

Good luck to you all!

 

[birdseyecircus]

Just looked on flight radar 24 site to see plenty of flights still landing in the UK...

 

Paul

[Andy Hayter]

But how many passengers?

 

|Mail and freight are still major users of air travel and delays on deliveries are still a major issue - I await the delivery of several packages from the UK and some of them could have been delivered on foot faster had the postman had the necessary C19 test.

[Reorte]

New rules (for England) are here:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by Reorte

[monkeysarefun]

 

 

12 minutes ago, Reorte said:

New rules (for England) are here:

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

 

 

 

 

22 pages?  Victoria had a tougher lockdown in July and they managed to fit it all in 9 dot points:

 

- You can only leave home for four reasons: shopping for food and supplies, outdoor exercise and recreation, medical care and caregiving, and study or work – if you can’t do it from home.

- You cannot have visitors to your home except for caregiving or compassionate reasons or receiving services.

- You cannot visit friends and family outside your home, except to see your intimate partner, for shared care arrangements, for caregiving or compassionate reasons, or providing services.

- You should only exercise with the members of your household or one other person, and you should stay as close to home as possible.

- When leaving home for one of the four reasons, people 12 years and older must wear a face covering, unless an exemption applies.

- If you are in the car alone or with someone from your household, you do not need to wear a face covering. You should put your face covering on before you leave your car.

- If you are doing strenuous physical exercise you do not need to wear a face covering but you must carry one with you. Strenuous exercise includes activities like jogging, running or cycling but not walking.

- People who live in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire must not attend a wedding outside these areas, unless they are working as the celebrant. The celebrant must wear a mask.

- People who live in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire cannot hold a wedding outside these areas, even if a booking has already been made.

 

 

 

 

 

[BoD]

45 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Significantly, the Scots MP who travelled by train after knowingly testing positive in September has been arrested. 

Strange that that should happen today of all days.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Is insinuating personal attacks now acceptable here?

 

My apologies, open goal, cheap shot.

[BoD]

1 minute ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

 

 

 

22 pages?  Victoria had a tougher lockdown in July and they managed to fit it all in 9 dot points:

 

- You can only leave home for four reasons: shopping for food and supplies, outdoor exercise and recreation, medical care and caregiving, and study or work – if you can’t do it from home.

- You cannot have visitors to your home except for caregiving or compassionate reasons or receiving services.

- You cannot visit friends and family outside your home, except to see your intimate partner, for shared care arrangements, for caregiving or compassionate reasons, or providing services.

- You should only exercise with the members of your household or one other person, and you should stay as close to home as possible.

- When leaving home for one of the four reasons, people 12 years and older must wear a face covering, unless an exemption applies.

- If you are in the car alone or with someone from your household, you do not need to wear a face covering. You should put your face covering on before you leave your car.

- If you are doing strenuous physical exercise you do not need to wear a face covering but you must carry one with you. Strenuous exercise includes activities like jogging, running or cycling but not walking.

- People who live in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire must not attend a wedding outside these areas, unless they are working as the celebrant. The celebrant must wear a mask.

- People who live in metropolitan Melbourne and Mitchell Shire cannot hold a wedding outside these areas, even if a booking has already been made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah, but you don’t have our civil service.

Why use one word when two hundred and sixty five,  section iv, subclause c, will do.

[John M Upton]

So now do I send my child who would still be permitted to attend due to SEN needs to school tomorrow or not?

 

I can't ring the school at this time of night!  What incompetent imbecile makes an announcement like this at this time of night leaving so many unanswered questions?

 

This could have been announced this afternoon when there was still time to actually do something!

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

This could have been announced this afternoon when there was still time to actually do something!

 

Or at the Weekend, or between Christmas and new year.... its not as though the trends / data were going to magically reverse itself in hours.

 

If its any conciliation you can be sure teaching staff will be just as pissed off - they now face a set of late night phone calls to try and put together a plan for first thing in the morning when many parents will understandably be besieging them and schools with questions.

 

There is trying to keep some sense of normality...  ... and there is plain pig headed stupidity. What we have seen from Boris and co in the past few days is most definitely the latter.

Edited January 4, 2021 by phil-b259

[monkeysarefun]

15 minutes ago, BoD said:

 

Ah, but you don’t have our civil service.

Why use one word when two hundred and sixty five,  section iv, subclause c, will do.

One thing I've noticed there compared to here is that here the rule will be "You must wear a mask mate" whereas there it'll be "You must wear a mask unless the following exemptions apply [ list of 20 exemptions], for clarification and  more exemptions and exceptional circumstances download this 23MB 60 page pdf file".

 

Edited January 4, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Nearholmer]

The report that they seem to be basing their decisions on is in the public domain, and is dated 23 December, so the logic of what has gone on at least since then, and possibly what has gone on since the third week of Lockdown 2, when case rates started to rise in London and several other places, despite the fact that lockdown was in force, is open to question.

 

In cynical moments, I do wonder whether there is a deliberate strategy of holding-off on measures until there is a widespread clamour for them to be imposed, as a way of avoiding any possibility of being accused of "depriving people of their liberty for no purpose", which seems to be something the PM is very sensitised to.

 

Not that deciding what to do for the best right now can be an easy task ......... one of the most difficult imaginable, I should think.

 

 

[rockershovel]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

The report that they seem to be basing their decisions on is in the public domain, and is dated 23 December, so the logic of what has gone on at least since then, and possibly what has gone on since the third week of Lockdown 2, when case rates started to rise in London and several other places, despite the fact that lockdown was in force, is open to question.

 

In cynical moments, I do wonder whether there is a deliberate strategy of holding-off on measures until there is a widespread clamour for them to be imposed, as a way of avoiding any possibility of being accused of "depriving people of their liberty for no purpose", which seems to be something the PM is very sensitised to.

 

Not that deciding what to do for the best right now can be an easy task ......... one of the most difficult imaginable, I should think.

 

 

 

Steady on... .. and here we are. 

 

The present administration have been criticised in various quarters, for quite some time, for treating the situation as, in large part, an exercise in politics, rather than national leadership. 

 

 

There will be an interesting situation developing in the foreseeable future. Free Movement of People from the EU is now at an end; Office of National Statistics website informs us that by their best estimate,  numbers of incoming passengers to U.K. arriving by air, from all sources, were approximately 1% of the figure recorded to March 2020. There can be no doubt, at this point, that we will be entering a period of long-term, mass unemployment. There is a general shortage of housing and high inflation in house prices. 

 

We are further informed, in effect, that no level of economic destruction is too high to suffer, and that we are in a race to inoculate the population; the great public health campaigns of the past were staged against the background of a largely homogenous population, with immigration figures which were trivial by modern standards. HMG are assiduously encouraging the belief that the new “points based immigration system” will reduce immigration, although no targets can be identified. It will be most interesting to see what actually transpires. 

[APOLLO]

Soon we will wish it was 2020 again !!!!!!!!!

 

Brit15

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

Just had this from one of my former staff via Facebook

[Nearholmer]

"There will be an interesting situation developing in the foreseeable future. Free Movement of People from the EU is now at an end; Office of National Statistics website informs us that by their best estimate,  numbers of incoming passengers to U.K. arriving by air, from all sources, were approximately 1% of the figure recorded to March 2020. There can be no doubt, at this point, that we will be entering a period of long-term, mass unemployment. There is a general shortage of housing and high inflation in house prices. 

 

We are further informed, in effect, that no level of economic destruction is too high to suffer, and that we are in a race to inoculate the population; the great public health campaigns of the past were staged against the background of a largely homogenous population, with immigration figures which were trivial by modern standards. HMG are assiduously encouraging the belief that the new “points based immigration system” will reduce immigration, although no targets can be identified. It will be most interesting to see what actually transpires."

 

Rocker - if, as it seems, what bothers you most of all is, well, I think many of us have worked out what bothers you most of all, why don't you just start a thread to discuss it?

 

 

 

 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

The report that they seem to be basing their decisions on is in the public domain, and is dated 23 December, so the logic of what has gone on at least since then, and possibly what has gone on since the third week of Lockdown 2, when case rates started to rise in London and several other places, despite the fact that lockdown was in force, is open to question.

 

In cynical moments, I do wonder whether there is a deliberate strategy of holding-off on measures until there is a widespread clamour for them to be imposed, as a way of avoiding any possibility of being accused of "depriving people of their liberty for no purpose", which seems to be something the PM is very sensitised to.

 

Not that deciding what to do for the best right now can be an easy task ......... one of the most difficult imaginable, I should think.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure thats EXACTLY the strategy - in PR terms it means Boris can play the 'good cop' against the 'bad cop' scientists who quite logically have always favoured the most draconian measures possible which are said to have threatened the entire hospitality industry with extinction by certain business leaders.

 

Now in some sense this is a good idea because anyone who is in the business of studying human behaviours knows that people eventually get fed up with massive restrictions on what they can do and as time goes on you get more and more kickback. Thus to gain maximum compliance, the strictest restrictions need to be used sparingly and thus I can sort of understand the way he played things for most of 2020.

 

However there comes a time when someone who likes to compare himself to Churchill (more in the sense of not your 'usual' Tory than wining wars of course) has to stop playing politics and start leading from the front - however unpopular that may be with certain factions of his party or business leaders. That point was reached at Christmas and based on the report the Government received on the 23rd, it should have been a no-brainer decision to go into a hard lockdown from the start of 2021.

 

Yes I know there were other distractions (Brexit, chaos in Kent with the French border shut) but it would hardly have been rocket science to make a commitment to stick the entire country in Tier 4 plus delay the return to school by a couple of weeks to buy the Government time to formulate a more considered response.

Edited January 5, 2021 by phil-b259

[John M Upton]

Five minutes to midnight and the headmaster of my boy's school is sending out emails!!!  Thankfully my little one is going in as normal although explaining where half his classmates have disappeared to (including his apparent girlfriend!! - He's only four and a half!!) may be tricky.

 

I have replied to the headmaster wishing him good luck and not envying him having to work through the night to sort out the mess.

 

If it was 'normal' times, heads in Westminster would have rolled by now and resignations would have been tabled.  There will be a reckoning when all this is over though.

[woodenhead]

9 hours ago, John M Upton said:

If it was 'normal' times, heads in Westminster would have rolled by now and resignations would have been tabled.  There will be a reckoning when all this is over though.

Sadly politicians across the world have cottoned on to the fact, actually there are no consequences, they don't resign and they don't apologise any more - none of them.

 

There is one though who may yet see consequences and we can only hope it is coming soon.

[Bernard Lamb]

11 hours ago, John M Upton said:

So now do I send my child who would still be permitted to attend due to SEN needs to school tomorrow or not?

 

I can't ring the school at this time of night!  What incompetent imbecile makes an announcement like this at this time of night leaving so many unanswered questions?

 

This could have been announced this afternoon when there was still time to actually do something!

It could and probably should have been announced on Dec 23rd which appears to be when those at the top were made aware of the situation.

My daughter and seven colleagues had a meeting late last night to sort out who would need to actually be in the school to look after real children, who would be in school for on line teaching and who could do on line classes from home. Of course having just worked out a rota for the term it was back to square one. 

Having one five year old with very individual needs and my daughter and other staff having spent half of last term sorting out a plan with the child's parents I fear for what will happen to him. Of course any upset to his routine will become a set of dominos affecting the teachers and the kids when they eventually do return.

I shall avoid any further political comments as I seem to have upset a few people.

However I must say a big THANK YOU to all those who made positive comments in respect of my frustrated rants.

Bernard