WR ‘15XX’ 0-6-0PT - 00 Gauge

[Silver Sidelines]

17 hours ago, OnTheBranchline said:

Not going to lie, I was kind of holding my breath that the loco would go around the curves and not derail and fall to its demise... 

Cheers - it is a concern.  Definitley don't leave the railway unattended.   The older lengths of track 'behind the scenes' have cardboard upstands on the outside of the curves.  I am not sure where I am going scenery wise on this latest section and whether to add upstands or some scenery.

 

Regards  Ray

[gpplumy]

3rd time not lucky. 

 

Once again my 15xx has returned. The body has been repaired but the form stated the chassis was within expected parameters. 

 

Yet at slow speed it still tends to lock up and click. I've found it's part of the motion catching itself , and its two plastic parts which seriously makes me one might snap. I've also found the cab still rides up and down as it travels along. 

 

(The two parts in red catching as they pass over eachother in motion and clicking ) 

 

I love the 15xx. But I'm seriously considering cutting my losses and returning the model. Although I doubt the model shop would refund me by this time. 

 

I should add. I know corbs and consider him a good friend. And I can't fault other models that I have had from rapido and consider some of them flawless , even the hunslet that had to be returned as the second was excellent. Its just a shame that this model has been a bit of a miss. At least in my case . 

Edited December 5, 2023 by gpplumy
Additional supporting comment

[Mark C]

On 24/11/2023 at 18:28, OnTheBranchline said:

Not going to lie, I was kind of holding my breath that the loco would go around the curves and not derail and fall to its demise... 

There is one doing just that (going round the curves bit, not falling to its' demise...) at Holkham Hall's Christmas by candlelight event, where there is a Christmas tree ringed by four circuits of track - one of which has a 15xx merrily towing three Gresley coaches...

 

Mark

[RapidoCorbs]

2 hours ago, gpplumy said:

3rd time not lucky. 

 

Once again my 15xx has returned. The body has been repaired but the form stated the chassis was within expected parameters. 

 

Yet at slow speed it still tends to lock up and click. I've found it's part of the motion catching itself , and its two plastic parts which seriously makes me one might snap. I've also found the cab still rides up and down as it travels along. 

 

(The two parts in red catching as they pass over eachother in motion and clicking ) 

 

 

I love the 15xx. But I'm seriously considering cutting my losses and returning the model. Although I doubt the model shop would refund me by this time. 

 

 

I should add. I know corbs and consider him a good friend. And I can't fault other models that I have had from rapido and consider some of them flawless , even the hunslet that had to be returned as the second was excellent. Its just a shame that this model has been a bit of a miss. At least in my case . 

 

Is the crankpin catching on the back of the crosshead, Andrew?

[tlm]

Sorry Corbs but I have agree with gpplumy, although I hasten to add that I too have never had an issue with any of the otherwise simply stunning UK or North American Rapido product - that is until the 15xx.

While I suspect I was simply unlucky in ordering mine directly from Rapido at full price and presumably getting one of the early ones that seem to have been more beset with problems, I have to say that the absolute refusal to supply either a replacement chassis or even a spare wheelset so that I could carry out remedial repairs myself surprised me considerably. When the Rapido US Turbo Train original gearboxes were found to be, choosing my words carefully, not up to scratch, Rapido manufactured replacement much improved gearboxes and these were made available to customers to deal with the replacement themselves. I asked for and received mine without question. What was wrong with doing this to deal with the chassis issues on the 15xx ?

I have had some frankly abysmal results in warranty responses and repairs from other manufacturers, although not I hasten to add from Rapido for whom I've always had great admiration and from whom until now have always received great customer service, but I simply don't want a warranty repair as I'm not convinced after the experiences of others. I'm a sufficiently competent modeller that I'm more than happy to do the work myself. To add insult to injury, I even offered to pay for the replacement parts, but was still refused.

 

The fact is that my loco will never run properly without new wheels, and gpplumy's experiences, mindful of the fact that his has been back more than once, essentially tells me that I made the right decision.

 

Come on guys, great customer service is what brings the customer back again and leads to future orders. There are a lot of happy 15xx customers who were fortunate enough to receive better locos, but for the minority of us who plainly didn't, what we are left with sours the customer experience, and frankly isn't likely to prompt a rush of pre orders from us for the latest batch of otherwise exciting announcements, unless and/or until our after sales experience is much improved.

[gpplumy]

8 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Is the crankpin catching on the back of the crosshead, Andrew?

No, it's the plastic bracket that comes over the front of the Cross head that's catching , i assume it's part of the valve gear. Only catched at slow speed but of course thats My main speed. Sometimes it fully jams. And I'm rather concerned that it might snap one of the parts in half. 

[RapidoCorbs]

10 hours ago, tlm said:

Sorry Corbs but I have agree with gpplumy, although I hasten to add that I too have never had an issue with any of the otherwise simply stunning UK or North American Rapido product - that is until the 15xx.

While I suspect I was simply unlucky in ordering mine directly from Rapido at full price and presumably getting one of the early ones that seem to have been more beset with problems, I have to say that the absolute refusal to supply either a replacement chassis or even a spare wheelset so that I could carry out remedial repairs myself surprised me considerably. When the Rapido US Turbo Train original gearboxes were found to be, choosing my words carefully, not up to scratch, Rapido manufactured replacement much improved gearboxes and these were made available to customers to deal with the replacement themselves. I asked for and received mine without question. What was wrong with doing this to deal with the chassis issues on the 15xx ?

I have had some frankly abysmal results in warranty responses and repairs from other manufacturers, although not I hasten to add from Rapido for whom I've always had great admiration and from whom until now have always received great customer service, but I simply don't want a warranty repair as I'm not convinced after the experiences of others. I'm a sufficiently competent modeller that I'm more than happy to do the work myself. To add insult to injury, I even offered to pay for the replacement parts, but was still refused.

 

The fact is that my loco will never run properly without new wheels, and gpplumy's experiences, mindful of the fact that his has been back more than once, essentially tells me that I made the right decision.

 

Come on guys, great customer service is what brings the customer back again and leads to future orders. There are a lot of happy 15xx customers who were fortunate enough to receive better locos, but for the minority of us who plainly didn't, what we are left with sours the customer experience, and frankly isn't likely to prompt a rush of pre orders from us for the latest batch of otherwise exciting announcements, unless and/or until our after sales experience is much improved.

 

Hi tlm, I understand that you would prefer to fix it yourself, I am a tinkerer as well and generally like to get stuck in even on brand new models.

I would like to explain our policy on sending out parts and why we are firm on the models being sent back.

We have a limited stock of spare parts, if we send them out to people, there is no guarantee that the repair will be carried out. All our models are sold with a limited lifetime guarantee, so if that model isn’t repaired and then is sold to a new owner, we may end up doubling our problem because the new owner may need the repair done, but we will have ‘lost’ the parts we sent.

There is also no guarantee that the repair will work, or there may be a mistake made (these things happen) which results in the loss of the spare parts and then further damage to the model which would then need to be sent back to fix, again doubling the problem.

We can’t make an exception to this because if we did and the word got out, then more and more people would be asking for the exception and increasing the risk of there being an issue.

I know it’s not ideal but I hope this explains things from our point of view.

 

 

2 hours ago, gpplumy said:

No, it's the plastic bracket that comes over the front of the Cross head that's catching , i assume it's part of the valve gear. Only catched at slow speed but of course thats My main speed. Sometimes it fully jams. And I'm rather concerned that it might snap one of the parts in half. 

Hello Andrew,

I experimented with my own model on the rollers last night and I couldn’t replicate the issue in the manner you describe, but if I pushed on the crosshead it would catch on the crankpin.

I spoke to another customer about a tight spot where it would lock up, they told me that extra running-in (circa 2 hours in each direction) helped a lot and cured the problem. If you want to try this, I strongly recommend this on a circuit of track rather than on rollers.

Of course I do also understand if at this stage you want to ask the retailer for a refund rather than sending it back to us again.

[gpplumy]

3 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Hi tlm, I understand that you would prefer to fix it yourself, I am a tinkerer as well and generally like to get stuck in even on brand new models.

I would like to explain our policy on sending out parts and why we are firm on the models being sent back.

We have a limited stock of spare parts, if we send them out to people, there is no guarantee that the repair will be carried out. All our models are sold with a limited lifetime guarantee, so if that model isn’t repaired and then is sold to a new owner, we may end up doubling our problem because the new owner may need the repair done, but we will have ‘lost’ the parts we sent.

There is also no guarantee that the repair will work, or there may be a mistake made (these things happen) which results in the loss of the spare parts and then further damage to the model which would then need to be sent back to fix, again doubling the problem.

We can’t make an exception to this because if we did and the word got out, then more and more people would be asking for the exception and increasing the risk of there being an issue.

I know it’s not ideal but I hope this explains things from our point of view.

 

 

Hello Andrew,

I experimented with my own model on the rollers last night and I couldn’t replicate the issue in the manner you describe, but if I pushed on the crosshead it would catch on the crankpin.

I spoke to another customer about a tight spot where it would lock up, they told me that extra running-in (circa 2 hours in each direction) helped a lot and cured the problem. If you want to try this, I strongly recommend this on a circuit of track rather than on rollers.

Of course I do also understand if at this stage you want to ask the retailer for a refund rather than sending it back to us again.

Slightly problem there as I don't have a circle of track to run in on , so I'm restricted to rollers. I have run this chassis in before it went back to rapido for repair. And it's come back with the same chassis so not sure what to do 

[Miss Prism]

3 hours ago, gpplumy said:

No, it's the plastic bracket that comes over the front of the Cross head that's catching ,

 

Catching on what?

 

[gpplumy]

1 minute ago, Miss Prism said:

 

Catching on what?

 

What I can only assume is the valve gear catches on the piston Crosshead that is behind it 

Edited December 6, 2023 by gpplumy

[NHY 581]

5 hours ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Hi tlm, I understand that you would prefer to fix it yourself, I am a tinkerer as well and generally like to get stuck in even on brand new models.

I would like to explain our policy on sending out parts and why we are firm on the models being sent back.

We have a limited stock of spare parts, if we send them out to people, there is no guarantee that the repair will be carried out. All our models are sold with a limited lifetime guarantee, so if that model isn’t repaired and then is sold to a new owner, we may end up doubling our problem because the new owner may need the repair done, but we will have ‘lost’ the parts we sent.

There is also no guarantee that the repair will work, or there may be a mistake made (these things happen) which results in the loss of the spare parts and then further damage to the model which would then need to be sent back to fix, again doubling the problem.

We can’t make an exception to this because if we did and the word got out, then more and more people would be asking for the exception and increasing the risk of there being an issue.

I know it’s not ideal but I hope this explains things from our point of view.

 

 

Afternoon Corbs, 

 

There is nothing wrong with your policy and your response above explains the rational behind it in a measured and reasonable manner. 

 

If people wish to ignore/avoid/ refuse this policy then frankly that's their lookout, something you cannot be held responsible for.

 

At no time are you saying we will not resolve this 

 

It's not difficult. You buy something that's faulty. The manufacturer operates a warranty scheme which requires the purchaser to return it for assessment and remedy before being returned to them. Free. 

 

Pretty simple if you ask me. 

 

You can only do so much and your presence/responses on here indicate that you/Rapido are going above and beyond that which could be reasonably expected. 

 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

32 minutes ago, NHY 581 said:

 

 

Afternoon Corbs, 

 

There is nothing wrong with your policy and your response above explains the rational behind it in a measured and reasonable manner. 

 

If people wish to ignore/avoid/ refuse this policy then frankly that's their lookout, something you cannot be held responsible for.

 

At no time are you saying we will not resolve this 

 

It's not difficult. You buy something that's faulty. The manufacturer operates a warranty scheme which requires the purchaser to return it for assessment and remedy before being returned to them. Free. 

 

Pretty simple if you ask me. 

 

You can only do so much and your presence/responses on here indicate that you/Rapido are going above and beyond that which could be reasonably expected. 

 

Rob. 

Yup.

Phil

[Captain Kernow]

I also completely understand Corwin's point of view and have much sympathy with it.

 

I also understand where Tim is coming from. I am also another tinkerer, although my solution for an RTR loco that doesn't run as I'd like it is perhaps a bit more drastic, in that I prefer to completely replace the chassis and drive train.

 

There is a loco from another manufacturer that is giving me problems in terms of the flange thickness, when trying to negotiate the OO-SF point clearances that I oh-so-foolishly installed on my layout. Not only are the back-to-backs of variable distance (some 14.5mm, some 15mm, but even where the b2b is to specification (ie. 14.5mm), the thickness of the flanges causes the wheels to bind on the track, where the gauge is reduced to 16.2mm, in accordance with OO-SF specifications.

 

My solution is to replace the driving wheels with Markits ones, ostensibly to the same RP25-110 specification, but I know for a fact that Markits wheels do not cause a problem, due to the flanges being slightly thinner.

 

So, perhaps one thing that Rapido (and other RTR companies) could do, to make things easier for those of us who'd prefer to rectify problems ourselves, is to ensure that the design of their models makes them easier to take apart, work on and perhaps modify?

 

[Mallard60022]

9 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I also completely understand Corwin's point of view and have much sympathy with it.

 

I also understand where Tim is coming from. I am also another tinkerer, although my solution for an RTR loco that doesn't run as I'd like it is perhaps a bit more drastic, in that I prefer to completely replace the chassis and drive train.

 

There is a loco from another manufacturer that is giving me problems in terms of the flange thickness, when trying to negotiate the OO-SF point clearances that I oh-so-foolishly installed on my layout. Not only are the back-to-backs of variable distance (some 14.5mm, some 15mm, but even where the b2b is to specification (ie. 14.5mm), the thickness of the flanges causes the wheels to bind on the track, where the gauge is reduced to 16.2mm, in accordance with OO-SF specifications.

 

My solution is to replace the driving wheels with Markits ones, ostensibly to the same RP25-110 specification, but I know for a fact that Markits wheels do not cause a problem, due to the flanges being slightly thinner.

 

So, perhaps one thing that Rapido (and other RTR companies) could do, to make things easier for those of us who'd prefer to rectify problems ourselves, is to ensure that the design of their models makes them easier to take apart, work on and perhaps modify?

 

Agreed CK.

Have a laugh on me. The first time I ever saw a model with replacement FS wheels, was around 1972 when I collected some items from a dear old lady near Reigate who was disposing of some of her late husband's MR stuff. It was a Triang 3F with Romford Wheels! I think I might have that somewhere?

The difference was absolutely amazing.

Sadly, as I were just a very new employee at that time, with a Mortgage and two very small kids, I couldn't afford the other things on display, which included a Scratch built Station which was absolutely superb. 1972! Grief!

The local Model Shop (part of a PROPER TOY SHOP), also had a pre owned Triang Two car SR Electric Unit. I went and looked at that a few times...never bought it.

Apologies. It was a while before I became aware of the fact that 'scale replacement things' could be used, in the very way you are describing here!

Happy days...or not?

Phil

[No Decorum]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

 

So, perhaps one thing that Rapido (and other RTR companies) could do, to make things easier for those of us who'd prefer to rectify problems ourselves, is to ensure that the design of their models makes them easier to take apart, work on and perhaps modify?

 

Absolutely. New entrants to the manufacture of RTR models often neglect to make models easy to get into*. I have some very old models which have been transformed with some careful internal lubrication. Such models are long out of guarantee. With new models, naturally we take the risk of invalidating the guarantee if we mess things up. That’s our fault.

 

A case in point is the Stirling Single. It won’t start as smoothly as I’d like. I’d like to try removing the gear between the driving and trailing axles to see if that helps and if that compromises haulage capacity. Close up, the driving spokes flickering past the slots in the splashers is a stunning effect but rather spoilt by two bright red wires where there should be solid boiler. If I could get inside, I could at least paint them black or substitiute black wires. We are given dire warnings not to attempt to get into the innards. As a result, I am rather less enchanted than most owners seem to be. On the other hand, I do understand Rapido’s point of view. It must be frustrating to receive for repair a model which has been half wrecked by someone ham-fisted. In such cases, Rapido would be quite right to charge heftily for a repair.

 

*In fairness, not only new entrants but it seems more common with them.

[jjb1970]

I am with Rapido here, and their policy is consistent with many suppliers across all categories of goods. There's a  very good reason that opening something to work on it will generally invalidate a warranty, the supplier no longer knows what the original condition was, and cannot be responsible for attempted repairs by others. We all like to think modellers are fine upstanding paragons of excellentness but it only takes someone to create a mess and then demands Rapido save them while quoting consumer rights law (no matter how wrong headed it might be) to become a nightmare Rapido don't need.

[247 Developments]

Just to let you Know we have back in stock the Full range of 15xx & 16xx cab side plates  £6.00

 

Lets see how long this batch stays in Stock

[MikeParkin65]

Credit where credit is due, just testing my 15xx for its intended use as a station pilot. It has just shifted a 14 coach rake (7 new style Hornby Mk'1s, 4 Hornby Gresleys and 3 Bachmann Thompsons) on my very far from perfect p-way and never with the whole rake on straight track with ease.  To recap, mine came with just one small bunker step detached and has the slightest roll in its movement. Very happy with it and reassured that if anything does go awry Rapido are very open to warranty claims. 

 

Remarkable little model - well done Rapido 👏

[Mallard60022]

5 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Credit where credit is due, just testing my 15xx for its intended use as a station pilot. It has just shifted a 14 coach rake (7 new style Hornby Mk'1s, 4 Hornby Gresleys and 3 Bachmann Thompsons) on my very far from perfect p-way and never with the whole rake on straight track with ease.  To recap, mine came with just one small bunker step detached and has the slightest roll in its movement. Very happy with it and reassured that if anything does go awry Rapido are very open to warranty claims. 

 

Remarkable little model - well done Rapido 👏

Excellent. Exactly as mine was bar the Bunker Step. Slight roll, which is prototypical anyway.

Phil

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon folks,

 

Thanks to the tip from MikeParkin65 previously on this thread, a copy of British Industrial Steam in the 1960s is now on its way to Derby for Xmas.

 

Thanks Mike, I am really looking forward to ploughing into this book over the Xmas/New Year holiday (and more).

Especially the 15xx photos at Keresley!

 

Edit: A quick look at the book to check condition before Mrs Xmas wraps it - Wow, what a fantastic set of photos, not just the Warwickshire coalfield ones.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

Edited December 20, 2023 by GMKAT7
Added info.

[GernBlanstonShow]

I have been eager to make this post for awhile now. I finally got my pre-ordered 1505 here in Los Angeles on a second attempt and have had time to run it in and give it a good once-over. For context I am building a compact OO/009 with first-radius OO curves, so I am seeking stock that is appropriate on tighter curves.

As I said this one was the second attempt, I was a victim of QC issues. The first model I received from Hattons had stripped paint on one of the front buffers and the manual missing. It'd be a great candidate for weathering, but wanting a new unweathered model this was unacceptable for me. Thankfully Hattons fully accepted the return and even covered consumer rate shipping back to the UK! (and sold it preowned, as I said great candidate for weathering). Unfortunately I didn't even run it before return.

 

The second Model arrived in much better shape. Overall good finish with the worst issue being a potentially loose smokebox drain cock that fell off, although that is acceptable to me (I may have done it myself not realizing it while handling, but the point stands). The finish is excellent, the lined BR finish looks wonderful and the full-metal body is proud and noticeable. I am just struck by the looks and sheer amount of attention to every aspect of this model. When I posted photos on Instagram the best way I can describe this locomotive is photogenic.

 

Running was the best part of the model. Predictably this model handled the layout's first radius curves well and I can see this model having lots of running on my new layout. Absolutely no pickup issues, even over the insulfrog points on the layout. Motor pulling less than a tenth of an amp straight out of the box and got better with running in. The firebox glow is especially impressive even at lower speeds. There is the slightest clicking from the valvegear, but my J70 had the same thing and both have been flawless so far (the first radius curves obviously don't help that).

 

I am smitten with the second model I received, and hope to run it on my new layout a lot in the future! However, I do have to say the QC issues are noticeable and need to be addressed. I pre-ordered the model eagerly and have been soured of doing so in the future due to this. I know that conversations between Rapido and your production facilities are happening, but I feel it should go deeper than that within the company.

I think this is the maximum detail you should ever expect from a large-production OO gauge model, it has gotten to a point where I feel excessive ambitious detail hurt this model, and modelers can clearly see that. I want the creative director or head of design to look at this scenario and be told, "This is the most detail we can do with current production techniques, anymore and it hurts the final model and consumers perception of the company". Work is getting harder for people across the globe and I am more sympathizing with the craftsmen in China that build these exquisite models and are probably getting negative experience from not reaching such sky high, even unreasonable, expectations.

 

I want to make sure to say the model itself is excellent. Apologies if that comment cut a bit deep, but it reflects how I feel the entire industry has gotten into a battle over finest detail that hurts both the models and consumers. And lastly, @RapidoCorbs, you're doing a hell of a great job. This model is a PR nightmare but you've handled the situation very well and I have deep respect for you and Rapido as a whole despite the situation.

 

[GWR-fan]

Cosmetic detail was only part of the issues with this model.  More attention needed to be paid to the drivetrain production , assembly and quality control,  with driving wheels running eccentrically and power plunger pickup problems.  Personally,  while happy with the Hunslet and the 15XX received from Rapido,  I am now wary of any new Rapido release.  That is a shame as I considered the company to be at the top of their game when it came to quality products.

[Eddie the dog]

Unfortunately I feel the same re: quality and future ordering and would like Rapido to be more vocal in

this respect assuring us customers of the steps being taken to insure this doesn’t happen again.

As a steam modeller, Rapido are planning some superb models and I wish them every success.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Eddie the dog

[Les1952]

The safety valve assembly on mine has broken off- rather too fragile.  Talking to them at Warley they said it was an issue and they offered a replacement.  As mine is the NCB one i've done what the NCB would do and substituted Ross Pops from a Triang loco in the scrap box.

 

On QC- I've had QC issues with Heljan (buffer beams and steps that fall off (two models), a railcar where the top and bottom halves don't meet all the way round)  Also with  Accurascale- door bangers on wagons that aren't glued on very well and get lost on the layout and a Deltic that lost its bogie safety chains and other small details round the layout - on a 24 by 12 foot club layout things that fall off are usually never seen again.  And with KR Models- I gave up on the Fell, plus Planet Industrials where the valve gear jammed straight out of the box- another one where the repaired loco was no better than before the repair, plus Bachmann locos that have gone back.  In TT:120 my Hornby Blink Bonny arrived without any wheels under the cab.  In N gauge I've had stripped gears, a non-functioning Deltic and A2 from Graham Farish - plus the saga of incorrectly milled wheels on their WD, where one in three (including mine)  couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding because their traction tyres didn't actually touch the rails,  dead-on-arrival locos from Fleischmann and Liliput, and rejected every Dapol Terrier a local dealer had in stock before eventually finding one that ran well enough.  Not to mention US outline locos from three different manufacturers where handrails were visibly broken and where the locos went back without even being removed from their boxes.

 

Rapido are a lot more up front about issues than many- the Farish traction tyres issue wasn't admitted for over two years and then only in conversation during which time I'd received a lot of stick from those who had good ones.

 

Yet people reckon I'm less picky than most.....

 

My take on all of this is that we have long passed the point where the detail we demand is going to survive.  We pay more and more for details that can't be seen when the loco is running and which are so fragile they break without being touched.  Is the hobby being driven by the wrong people?

 

Les

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Les1952
typos as usual

[Eddie the dog]

I appreciate that detail is getting delicate and this is largely customer driven.

The biggest problem for me with the 15xx has been running quality despite several repairs &/or replacements.

There have been issues with assembly too, glue marks mainly and Rapido have been very good from a customer

service point of view.

I just hope that these issues don’t continue with future projects.