Road Charging and Electric Vehicles...

[Nearholmer]

Well, I was kinda hoping for a brief rundown on how far you got, with what tech, in OCS and current-collector design, and/or on-the-move, non-contact battery charging.

 

With diagrams and summary calculations.

 

Please.

[Nick C]

The German idea I've seen had an HGV with a pair of pantographs on the cab roof, and a pair of conductors over lane one. When it wanted to either overtake or to leave the motorway, it switched to batteries and lowered the pans.

 

Trolleybuses in Gdynia have batteries, used for diversions etc, with motored winches on the trolley poles so the driver can raise or lower them from his seat.

 

Kraków has battery electric buses charged from overhead charging stations at key stops, where the bus waits for time or for the driver's PNB.

[Danemouth]

Cardiff Trolleybuses always had batteries - not sure how far they could move the bus but as we are talking about the 1950/60s I would imagine not very far.

We now have these

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cardiff-getting-36-electric-buses-15793774

 

Dave

[Neil]

As we've moved onto commercial vehicles this Flickr album might be of interest, I'm particularly intrigued by the bin wagon.

[BoD]

A letter in this morning's paper made me both smile and shake my head at the same time.

 

The gist of it was to suggest that the road pricing scheme could be modelled on how the railways are priced.

 

A single trip would be almost as expensive as going there and back. 

No deviation from your planned route will be allowed.

You may travel at a cheaper rate but if you miss your slot on the road you will suffer wrath,  public humiliation, a penalty charge or be made to pay the highest rate available and possibly threatened with a court appearance.  Being on the wrong road at the wrong time results in the same.

Competing companies could be set up each with their own rules, fare structures and charges meaning that there will be dozens of different charges for the same simple journey.

 

I hope that those charged with coming up with the system haven't read that letter... it might just give them ideas. 

 

[Guest]

 

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/environment/driving-a-milk-float-makes-you-impotent-a-man-who-knows-

nothing-about-electric-cars-answers-your-questions-20201119202679

[Gibbo675]

17 minutes ago, BoD said:

A letter in this morning's paper made me both smile and shake my head at the same time.

 

The gist of it was to suggest that the road pricing scheme could be modelled on how the railways are priced.

 

A single trip would be almost as expensive as going there and back. 

No deviation from your planned route will be allowed.

You may travel at a cheaper rate but if you miss your slot on the road you will suffer wrath,  public humiliation, a penalty charge or be made to pay the highest rate available and possibly threatened with a court appearance.  Being on the wrong road at the wrong time results in the same.

Competing companies could be set up each with their own rules, fare structures and charges meaning that there will be dozens of different charges for the same simple journey.

 

I hope that those charged with coming up with the system haven't read that letter... it might just give them ideas. 

 

Hi BoD,

 

All I can say to that is, be careful of what you wish for.

 

Gibbo.

[Phil Traxson]

Also, it might be worth while considering that (hopefully) Boris will not be in charge in 2030 and later governments may well apply a certain amount of common sense (another doubtful) to the problem in light of the circumstances that apply at the time.

 

[PenrithBeacon]

22 hours ago, Danemouth said:

Cardiff Trolleybuses always had batteries - not sure how far they could move the bus but as we are talking about the 1950/60s I would imagine not very far.

We now have these

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cardiff-getting-36-electric-buses-15793774

 

Dave

They would need the batteries to power the lights when the trolley wasn't connected, I would doubt if 12V would move the vehicle.

The issues with trolley buses are well documented in any number of books on them

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Phil Traxson said:

Also, it might be worth while considering that (hopefully) Boris will not be in charge in 2030 and later governments may well apply a certain amount of common sense (another doubtful) to the problem in light of the circumstances that apply at the time.

 

It may also be the case that a future government who shall we say or not so “business orientated” might well be more stringent on green issues  ........be very careful what you wish for.

[Gibbo675]

3 hours ago, Phil Traxson said:

Also, it might be worth while considering that (hopefully) Boris will not be in charge in 2030 and later governments may well apply a certain amount of common sense (another doubtful) to the problem in light of the circumstances that apply at the time.

 

Hi Phil,

 

The only thing Boris is in charge of is perception management.

 

From my observations of most of the comments upon this thread he is rather good at it.

 

Gibbo.

[PenrithBeacon]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/23/ineos-signs-hydrogen-fuel-cell-deal-for-its-off-road-vehicle?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/23/ineos-signs-hydrogen-fuel-cell-deal-for-its-off-road-vehicle?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

Posted in the wrong thread David.

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/23/ineos-signs-hydrogen-fuel-cell-deal-for-its-off-road-vehicle?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

It quotes.....”However, Ineos also plans to produce a version capable of running with zero carbon dioxide emissions to meet tightening environmental standards around the world, and it believes that battery electric power will not give it the rugged capabilities in areas with patchy electricity supply.”

 

Of course in the Australian outback or middle of the Amazon Jungle there is always a Hydrogen fuel station open 

[Grovenor]

24 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Of course in the Australian outback or middle of the Amazon Jungle there is always a Hydrogen fuel station open 

That's the plan! Ineos intends to establish its own chain of hydrogen stations, just as Tesla has done with superchargers.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Of course in the Australian outback or middle of the Amazon Jungle there is always a Hydrogen fuel station open 

 

It's fine. It's not a Toyota so you won't see them in either of those places.

[Pete the Elaner]

18 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

That's the plan! Ineos intends to establish its own chain of hydrogen stations, just as Tesla has done with superchargers.

 

But the point was that if an area has a patchy electricity supply, this is because it doesn't justify the investment to make it more robust.

If an area doesn't justify beefing up the electricity supply, it certainly won't justify a hydrogen fuel station.

[Gibbo675]

7 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

But the point was that if an area has a patchy electricity supply, this is because it doesn't justify the investment to make it more robust.

If an area doesn't justify beefing up the electricity supply, it certainly won't justify a hydrogen fuel station.

Hi Pete,

 

All this means is that should you wish to go there it is shank's pony or stay at home.

 

Gibbo.

[Nearholmer]

Is it that hydrogen is more compatible with the existing petrol/diesel supply logistics?

[Reorte]

11 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Is it that hydrogen is more compatible with the existing petrol/diesel supply logistics?

I suppose you can always lug a few tanks of hydrogen to wherever, which will be easier than bringing in power from outside. Alternatively you could go battery and have a local generator, but that would probably be less efficient than just using diesel directly.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

But the point was that if an area has a patchy electricity supply, this is because it doesn't justify the investment to make it more robust.

If an area doesn't justify beefing up the electricity supply, it certainly won't justify a hydrogen fuel station.

 

The dynamics are different if you're talking about transport. There's a company who's name I forget developing hydrogen powered EV charging stations for where there's a need but insufficient grid capacity. You tanker in some hydrogen every now and again.

It's horribly inefficient but is only intended as a stopgap. 

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

Alternatively you could go battery and have a local generator, but that would probably be less efficient than just using diesel directly.

Does beg questions about solar, wind, hydro etc, though.

 

Middle of nowhere places are often rich in potential for one or more of those.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Reorte]

14 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Does beg questions about slat, wind, hydro etc, though.

 

Middle of nowhere places are often rich in potential for one or more of those.

It'll depend upon permanence, cost, and practicality, whether it's worth setting them up or just dropping off a few tanks every now and then.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Grovenor said:

That's the plan! Ineos intends to establish its own chain of hydrogen stations, just as Tesla has done with superchargers.

In the back of beyond?    It’s taken at least 10 years to get the hotch potch of EV chargers we have now, I don’t hold much hope out for a chain of worldwide H stations around the world (let alone in these remote areas they say electricity is scarce).....in the near future, I reckon we’ll have unobtanium powered vehicles by then 

[Reorte]

Half the time I can get my car powered by absolutely free energy.

 

Just need to work out how to get it to work on the uphill half

 

Railways have managed it after all. Admittedly only in a few limited situations!