Planet Industrials - Kerr Stuart Victory RTR in OO...

[SteveyDee68]

23 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

I think a number of people (myself included) who have the EFE Austerity do think it's a waste of money, can't pull a lot even with added weight, mechanism is mostly unchanged from DJM days, and it's just generally not a nice model; and as such I would fail to recommend it to anyone.

Now that is news to me! Both* my EFE Austerity 0-6-0s run smoothly and quietly, and I was under the impression that nothing remained of the DJM chassis! 
 

Having said that, I have only test run them and not subjected them to haulage tests! I’m a bit worried now from what you’ve said in your post that they might disappoint “in the wild” so to speak!

 

Steve S

 

* How did I end up with two identical models? Well, there was this special offer too good to refuse for a brand new model from Rails of Sheffield, so I got myself one - forgetting that I had already bought an “as new” version off eBay for a very similar amount! Doh!

 

[NHY 581]

23 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

Whilst I think there is a market for a high quality 18" Hunslet range, I would more look at the Hunslet 48150s, not the Austerity type. I think a number of people (myself included) who have the EFE Austerity do think it's a waste of money, can't pull a lot even with added weight, mechanism is mostly unchanged from DJM days, and it's just generally not a nice model; and as such I would fail to recommend it to anyone.

Though I do think it would be better to see something like the 14" 0-6-0ST Barclays, mostly because they're lovely little locos irl, obviously I have mentioned my desire to see a 16" Bagnall 0-6-0ST, and then of course there are the Hudswell Clarke PLA type things (more thinking like HC1857), all of which are decent sized locos, never produced RTR in 00, and would make decent light railway locos.

Victory really is the standard for a decent 0-6-0 industrial locomotive.

 

I have to say the EFE badged Austerities I've come across are pretty good and much improved on the earlier versions but that said, my DJM/Hattons Mountain Ash No.8 is a lovely runner. 

 

Replace the chunky injectors and that's them pretty much sorted. 

 

Rob. 

Edited May 22 by NHY 581

[NHY 581]

46 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said:

Now that is news to me! Both* my EFE Austerity 0-6-0s run smoothly and quietly, and I was under the impression that nothing remained of the DJM chassis! 
 

Having said that, I have only test run them and not subjected them to haulage tests! I’m a bit worried now from what you’ve said in your post that they might disappoint “in the wild” so to speak!

 

Steve S

 

* How did I end up with two identical models? Well, there was this special offer too good to refuse for a brand new model from Rails of Sheffield, so I got myself one - forgetting that I had already bought an “as new” version off eBay for a very similar amount! Doh!

 

 

I think the main change Steve, was to the motor. Gears etc remain unchanged as far as I'm aware. But I agree, they run and perform well as per my preceding post. 

 

Rob. 

 

 

[BVMR21]

As I say, from my own experience, and from the experience of people I have spoken to, the general consensus is that it is just not worth the money, really is too light of a model, compared with say the PI Victory, and whilst the motor is by far much nicer than on the DJM verions, the rest of the model is quite frankly substandard.

 

Is there a market for the full 18" Hunslet family in 00 to at least the same standard as Victory? I would say so. Not to mention, most people cannot do without an Austerity in 00, it's the bread and butter sort of loco that for whomever takes it on, and does it well, sell again and again.

[adb968008]

+4 votes for the MSC tanks from me too.

[NHY 581]

2 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

As I say, from my own experience, and from the experience of people I have spoken to, the general consensus is that it is just not worth the money, really is too light of a model, compared with say the PI Victory, and whilst the motor is by far much nicer than on the DJM verions, the rest of the model is quite frankly substandard.

 

RRP of the EFE Austerities, even with the usual discounts, ( forget anout recent offers ) has always been salty so yes, arguably poor value for money when first released. As for the weight, yes but totally different ( and in many ways quite obscure ) manner of construction. 

 

But in what way(s)  are you saying these are sub-standard ? 

 

It certainly looks like an Austerity. 

 

Rob. 

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

really is too light of a model,

How much do you want it to pull? On various videos I’ve watched them pulling, and struggling in the wet with 12 wagons on 1in50. Mine will pull that fine empty or with loose coal loads but slips, fairly realistically, with heavy resin loads. I’ve put a decoder and speaker in the boiler and yes it’s still much lighter than the Victory but that walks away with loads well over scale capacity. 

[BVMR21]

I believe problem was on a train of 15 wagons plus brakevan, on some level track, again that was a friend's issue, my own issues are mostly due to the layout they run on (3 MK1s being hauled).

Though to take it back to industrials that would be nice to see from PI, anything large and beastly is most welcome.

[JSpencer]

10 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

RRP of the EFE Austerities, even with the usual discounts, ( forget anout recent offers ) has always been salty so yes, arguably poor value for money when first released. As for the weight, yes but totally different ( and in many ways quite obscure ) manner of construction. 

 

But in what way(s)  are you saying these are sub-standard ? 

 

It certainly looks like an Austerity. 

 

Rob. 

 

The DJM austerity has poor weight distribution tipping towards the cab end. Any slight decline and the front wheels lift off. It is hard to get an industrial feel to a layout if the track is flatter than the mainline. Also it is very hard model to get into. The Victory tank is simple and straight forwards to take apart. The DJM austerity is a fight.

My feeling is that people doing industrials tend to like to tinker with their models. It is a more a "make do" type layout just like real life.

While the DJM austerity looks better than the ex-Dapol/Hornby one, the latter has more grunt and a sprung axle allowing it to run anywhere without stalling. I was expecting DJM to match or surpass that, but it fell well short.

 

Edit: Looking at the Bachmann EFE spare, it seems to be the same motor (at best a tad bigger) in a new mounting. The DJM just clipped into place.

Edited May 22 by JSpencer

[PaulRhB]

On 22/05/2024 at 08:25, BVMR21 said:

of people I have spoken to, the general consensus is that it is just not worth the money, really is too light of a model,

Ok as I was popping round to @Hampshire Hog ‘s this afternoon we decided to test a selection 😁

 

The layout is roughly 19x9 ft and level-ish with undulations 😉

The results from a standing start across the pointwork of the yard onto a 3ft radius curve. The train was a mix of Dapol and weighted Parkside four wheel wagons. 
 
The results:
 

Hornby 08 48 wagons

 

PI Victory 47 wagons 

 

Oxford Janus 38 wagons 

 

Bachmann USA tank 38 wagons 

 

Heljan 07 37 wagons

 

Rapido 16” Hunslet 34 wagons 

 

EFE Austerity 31 wagons 

 

B/mann (new) 03 29 wagons

 

Dapol Hawthorne Leslie 27 wagons

 

Hattons Andrew Barclay 040 26 wagons

 

Hornby Sentinel 040 26 wagons

 

Dapol B4 040 16 wagons

 

 

 

Edited August 1 by PaulRhB

[Ruston]

All this talk of having another version of the Hunslet Austerity. Why? They are so dull. Such an uninteresting design.

 

Someone mentioned inland waterways?

Manning Wardle 16-inch Special 1929 of 1917.

 

Or how about this?

The big beast on the left is Hudswell Clarke 1867, one of three 18-inch 0-6-0ST supplied to the Manchester Ship Canal in 1954.

[Captain Kernow]

How about a big Bagnall 0-6-0 saddle tank with nice gesticulating valve gear?

 

[Halvarras]

9 hours ago, NHY 581 said:

 

RRP of the EFE Austerities, even with the usual discounts, ( forget anout recent offers ) has always been salty so yes, arguably poor value for money when first released. As for the weight, yes but totally different ( and in many ways quite obscure ) manner of construction. 

 

But in what way(s)  are you saying these are sub-standard ? 

 

It certainly looks like an Austerity. 

 

Rob. 

 

I knew this one was destined to be a shelf queen as soon as I saw it....

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/68457/E85003-WSL-EFE-Rail-Class-J94-0-6-0-Steam-Locomotive-number-19

 

Next model numerically (E85004) is 'Amazon' in lined green livery with what looks like a decent weathered finish - not surprisingly Kernow only have 2 of those left in stock. No doubt the real NCB No 19 looked this gaudy for a day or two, but a heavily weathered finish to this model would probably have loosened the glue on the shelf. Looking like this I just can't take it seriously, and I'm genuinely surprised EFE bothered with it!

[PaulRhB]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

PI Victory 47 wagons 

 

Rapido 16” Hunslet 34 wagons 

 

EFE Austerity 31 wagons 

From known loads in various videos and books I came up with an average to very roughly calculate what load various tractive efforts would equate to. 
 

TE divided by 495 was the figure for on the level. The chart below shows literal Victory for Planet industrials with the model managing 6 more than the real one 😉

 

Rapido hit the nail on the head with 34. 
 

EFE only managed 65% of the calculated load but for most layouts that’s still a respectable train of 31 wagons! 
 
A 1in100 gradient significantly drops the figures to roughly a third from my fairly crude calculations based on the small sample of articles and videos that mention it. 

(Note I averaged available info to get a TE / Load figure and I know Rapido quoted 15 wagons for the Bagnall 0-4-0’s on the level)

[Nova Scotian]

4 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

The results from a standing start across the pointwork of the yard onto a 3ft radius curve. The train was a mix of Dapol and weighted Parkside four wheel wagons. 
 
The results:
 

• Hornby 08 48 wagons
• PI Victory 47 wagons 
• Oxford Janus 38 wagons 
• Bachmann USA tank 38 wagons 
• Heljan 07 37 wagons
• Rapido 16” Hunslet 34 wagons 
• EFE Austerity 31 wagons 
• B/mann (new) 03 29 wagons
• Hattons Andrew Barclay 040 26 wagons
• Hornby Sentinel 040 26 wagons
• Dapol B4 040 16 wagons

 

So the Austerity is a bit of a disappointment. Diesel will still always be easier, you're not worried about the gap under the boiler, but compared to the Rapido Hunslet it should have done better.

The Hattons Andrew Barclay and the B4 aren't too surprisingly given the tiny size of the models.

 

If you've not already, please leave those trucks together, order a Dapol Hawthorn Leslie and let me know how it compares when it arrives :). With diecast in the construction one would hope for more than 16-26, but can't hope for too much more than that.

 

Perhaps we need a power/torque/weight competition - first company to introduce an 0-8-0 like Katherine or the SR Z class (big, beefy, lots of room for weight) with the right weight distribution and sprung axles. Something capable of shifting heavy wagon loads on industrial inclines and curves. Honestly, PI making the SR Z class may not be their "industrials" background, but I'd trust them to do it well (outside motion, long diecast boiler, giving the impression of mass through smart material choice).

Edited May 22 by Nova Scotian

[PaulRhB]

16 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

So the Austerity is a bit of a disappointment.

Is it though for the majority, how many pull 30+ wagons on their layout?
Ok this would drop significantly if you used resin loads but the vans represent the equivalent to a 16t mineral with coal on a foam or card base. I’m going to try and simulate the 1in50 and 1in100 loads too but as 30 wagons is 8’ 4” I’m going to need some long timbers to try that test on the Victory. 
 

In this topic they show 5-9 wagons per loco on the 1in19 Foxfield bank, but I suspect most are empty?

 

 

On my colliery layout I’m looking at 8-12 wagon trains so well within the capability of any of the tested locos including the Austerity. 
I’ll continue the tests later in my ‘Black Diamonds’ modules thread. 
 

29 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

If you've not already, please leave those trucks together, order a Dapol Hawthorn Leslie

One on order and it would be interesting to repeat the test. 

[SteveyDee68]

A big thank you to @PaulRhB for both the physical tests on @Hampshire Hog’s layout (more pics of which I hope might be seen in due course) but also for the excellent and useful table of various locos and the number of wagons you’ve calculated they should be able to pull - I’ve saved that for future reference* so I can plan fictitious train lengths prototypically (if you understand my meaning).

 

I should also say that I feel the urge to steal be inspired by @Hampshire Hog’s loco shed/servicing area for his fleet of dock locos - don’t know if it is intended but somehow it makes me think of the MSC loco facilities. 🤔🙄😆
 

Steve S

 

* Future, because I’ve just realised that those figures make a mockery of my most recent plan for Blackford Wharf! 🫢😆

Edited May 23 by SteveyDee68
Grammar!

[adb968008]

15 hours ago, Ruston said:

All this talk of having another version of the Hunslet Austerity. Why? They are so dull. Such an uninteresting design.

 

Someone mentioned inland waterways?

 

Or how about this?

The big beast on the left is Hudswell Clarke 1867, one of three 18-inch 0-6-0ST supplied to the Manchester Ship Canal in 1954.

No no no, enough saddle tanks… its the one on the right… lots of em.

Edited May 23 by adb968008

[BVMR21]

Always this as an option...

[PaulRhB]

6 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

Always this as an option...

Rather too similar to the Victory though? 😉

 

How about a nice little Avonside?

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/avonside-engine-co-works-no-1680-sir-john-0-6-0st/
 

Photo ©️ Tom Derrington from the site linked above. 

 

Theres even an option for a Colonial sun shade version! 😆

©️ Mick Cottam

[BVMR21]

Nah, even better would be this gal, nice size, and it's a Barclay.

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/works-no-2074-ncb-no-1-llantarnam-abbey-0-6-0st/

[Captain Kernow]

15 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

Nah, even better would be this gal, nice size, and it's a Barclay.

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/works-no-2074-ncb-no-1-llantarnam-abbey-0-6-0st/

With the correctly spelled name?

 

[Captain Kernow]

15 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Rather too similar to the Victory though? 😉

 

How about a nice little Avonside?

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/avonside-engine-co-works-no-1680-sir-john-0-6-0st/
 

Photo ©️ Tom Derrington from the site linked above. 

 

Now you're talking!

 

[PenrithBeacon]

16 hours ago, BVMR21 said:

Nah, even better would be this gal, nice size, and it's a Barclay.

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/works-no-2074-ncb-no-1-llantarnam-abbey-0-6-0st/

I've made a number of suggestions on this thread but PI haven't responded at all. I'm wondering just how active this company is.

[PaulRhB]

36 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I've made a number of suggestions on this thread but PI haven't responded at all. I'm wondering just how active this company is.

PI is a part time offshoot collaboration of Light Railway Stores and James Hilton Models. Steve and James are both busy with those primary ventures and PI currently is funded by the success of the victory which has done ok, but not enough that they are both driving Ferrari’s yet, so they are currently musing next moves. 

Bear in mind the plethora of other industrials announced and they need to be careful they don’t duplicate as they don’t have the reserves to beat the bigger established makers to market.