Lockdown #2

[kevinlms]

1 minute ago, rockershovel said:

 

I agree. Problem is, HMG don’t appear to agree as well. 

Look up Michael O'Brien on the internet. It's unrealistic to expect all parties of government & all members of the public to agree on anything.

[TheQ]

2 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Probably no longer available as we have left the EU

We did then for 2.5 years. +- a few raids..

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Observations here in Middle England suggest you are correct. Much more traffic than during the first stages of  L.1.

Traffic of all kinds...from pedal cyclists to HGV. I ask myself...what lockdown?

 

Agree. Very different atmosphere from the first time. Quieter than a week ago, but by no means silent.

 

I'm also "somewhere in Middle England", so one of the cyclists you saw might have been me.

 

At risk of sparking the "confusing guidance" debate again, I'm trying to decide how to interpret  the latest guidance about exercise limits in the context of cycling. One is allowed:

 

"to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)"

 

How far is "locally"? Last time, the outdoor exercise limits were a lot tighter for the first eight weeks, once a day for an hour I think - round here everyone seemed to tacitly default to staying within our quite tiny postcode area, which drove us all scatty. BTW, I'm not asking for an answer, I've worked out one for myself, merely musing.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Nearholmer

[rocor]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Not only that but if the U.K. could us the Chinese Army to police the lockdown with the subsequent threats of beatings and jail (or worse) maybe, just maybe the morons that flout the reasonable rules might obey them......

 

Yes, Let us introduce extrajudicial beatings and executions for those that ignore the lock down, we can then extend it as a general principal of our justice system, which would make it a lot more streamlined and efficient. 

[Bernard Lamb]

1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I think that this is a very much more liberal lockdown with more businesses being permitted to open for example.

Then there is a general tiredness with the whole thing particularly with young adults who are being told that the consequences for them are much less severe than for the elderly such as myself.

Personally I've put myself into just the same regime as last March. Better to be safe than sorry

Most of the people that I know have continued to act in the same way that they first adopted in March all through the summer. The new lockdown makes no difference at all. I must have been to a shop about 6 times and have never visited a pub or a restaurant since March. I have met a small group of up to 6 people for an outdoor coffee on a few occasions. 

I did see a large film unit this morning  in an area that is freely open to the general public and is well known for such activities. How does that fit into the grand scheme of things?

Bernard

[PenrithBeacon]

My life since the middle of March has been much the same. I did start to drive to the seaside, park up, wander around wearing mask and have fish and chip lunch but that has gone by the board for the time being.

Edited November 5, 2020 by PenrithBeacon

[rocor]

34 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

How far is "locally"? Last time, the outdoor exercise limits were a lot tighter for the first eight weeks, once a day for an hour I think - round here everyone seemed to tacitly default to staying within our quite tiny postcode area, which drove us all scatty. BTW, I'm not asking for an answer, I've worked out one for myself, merely musing.

 

I have been doing a brisk just under one hour walk each morning since exercise was permitted under lock down one. I live in the outer suburbs, so see very little other pedestrian traffic, and can just cross over the road if I see another walker approaching  me. The funny thing is, I never exercised at all before covid.

[adb968008]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

I am sorry but I totally disagree with you on premium products, whilst I agree when we talk about highly advertised designer labels. Grade A produce is often far better value than the cheaper brands. in both taste and longevity. Wine is quite the same, buy a good quality wing and drink less if on a budget. But I am not saying buy the most expensive,

 

Sounds like my wife.

Products are often aimed at different tiers according to the customer. But behind the scenes theres not always a lot of difference, except the wrapping. Often its down to volume, something premium, is made is less quantity and so commands a higher price, doesnt neccessarily mean its gold plated with fairy dust, its just demand restricted... making more just devalues it.

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Agree. Very different atmosphere from the first time. Quieter than a week ago, but by no means silent.

 

I'm also "somewhere in Middle England", so one of the cyclists you saw might have been me.

 

At risk of sparking the "confusing guidance" debate again, I'm trying to decide how to interpret  the latest guidance about exercise limits in the context of cycling. One is allowed:

 

"to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)"

 

How far is "locally"? Last time, the outdoor exercise limits were a lot tighter for the first eight weeks, once a day for an hour I think - round here everyone seemed to tacitly default to staying within our quite tiny postcode area, which drove us all scatty. BTW, I'm not asking for an answer, I've worked out one for myself, merely musing.

 

In Peterborough this mostly means the Ferry Meadows Park, but the surrounding web of cycle routes and footpaths covers a triangular area roughly 5 miles on a side, from Wansford to the Showground, and in to Town Bridge. 

[Ian Hargrave]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

 

Agree. Very different atmosphere from the first time. Quieter than a week ago, but by no means silent.

 

I'm also "somewhere in Middle England", so one of the cyclists you saw might have been me.

 

At risk of sparking the "confusing guidance" debate again, I'm trying to decide how to interpret  the latest guidance about exercise limits in the context of cycling. One is allowed:

 

"to spend time or exercise outdoors - this should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)"

 

How far is "locally"? Last time, the outdoor exercise limits were a lot tighter for the first eight weeks, once a day for an hour I think - round here everyone seemed to tacitly default to staying within our quite tiny postcode area, which drove us all scatty. BTW, I'm not asking for an answer, I've worked out one for myself, merely musing.

On the evidence of what I have just observed on a visit to my local Sainsbury’s,I wouldn’t trouble myself with the niceties of observance of the “rules” ,whatever they may be. The store itself was reasonably quiet and most grocery items were readily available.But here’s the thing.....and it’s an issue that has been aired already in Wales lockdown.....the store domestic hardware and clothing sections were open. Go a couple of 100 yards or so up the road ,specialist stores selling similar items are shut for a month. I’m sure there are perfectly valid reasons for this but you have to wonder why we have a seemingly ad hoc set of regulations drawn up on the hoof which generate an unwanted sense of confusion.

 

The store itself has become an after school magnet for the adolescents from the local high school. IMHO it might have been helpful if they had been actively discouraged from going anywhere near the place under current circumstances. But no.....a large group filtered in,not wearing masks and had hurriedly to be asked to leave by staff members ( who do a good job under the most trying conditions ). Two who wore masks were allowed in

But what can you do when mums use the store car park for the school run ?  Maybe some joined up thinking is required because it seems a lot of us appear to believe the rules don’t apply to them.

 

     Enjoy your bike ride. The weather is glorious and the colours of autumn are splendid 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Bernard Lamb said:

I did see a large film unit this morning  in an area that is freely open to the general public and is well known for such activities. How does that fit into the grand scheme of things?

Bernard

They are doing a job of work which they cannot do from home, social distancing and PPE will have to be adhered to also, just the same as factory/office workers who cannot work from home.

[boxbrownie]

58 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Sounds like my wife.

Products are often aimed at different tiers according to the customer. But behind the scenes theres not always a lot of difference, except the wrapping. Often its down to volume, something premium, is made is less quantity and so commands a higher price, doesnt neccessarily mean its gold plated with fairy dust, its just demand restricted... making more just devalues it.

The Farm was having issues with (name of supermarket deleted) because the wonky potatoes weren’t wonky enough and were being rejected at the packaging firm......they said if the wonkies look too good it will damage the sales of the normal pots, the pots that were rejected were dumped by the packaging firm, waste hand over fist and nothing the Farmers can do about it, it’s a crime.

 

We supply cleaned potatoes, two supermarkets then get the packaging firm to package the pots with peat in the bags so they pots look like they have just been dug up!

 

Happens all over.

Edited November 5, 2020 by boxbrownie

[Nick C]

8 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

The Farm was having issues with (name of supermarket deleted) because the wonky potatoes weren’t wonky enough and were being rejected at the packaging firm......they said if the wonkies look too good it will damage the sales of the normal pots, the pots that were rejected were dumped by the packaging firm, waste hand over fist and nothing the Farmers can do about it, it’s a crime.

 

We supply cleaned potatoes, two supermarkets then get the packaging firm to package the pots with peat in the bags so they pots look like they have just been dug up!

 

Happens all over.

And this is how we get to the current global figures of approximately 50% food waste...

[Gwiwer]

12 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

How far is "locally"?

As long as your piece of string.  

 

Only Wales and parts of Scotland have specified actual limits and even those have been unworkable in certain contexts.  Otherwise we are left to self-police and have regard for something called Common Sense.  It's nice to go for a rural bike ride but living in and around a major city makes that difficult but a hop on the train or a lift by car to get to and from the country is not prohibited.  

[coastalview]

Well that was rather painless, went shopping to Sainsbury's and M&S no queues and everything we wanted other than the key item M&S apple turnovers which had all gone .

 

We had to settle for Sainsbury's ones........

[Nearholmer]

15 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

As long as your piece of string.  

 

I did say I wasn't actually looking for an answer, basically because that is the answer.

 

During Lockdown 1 our cycling club issued a very good piece of advice about playing it mega-safe  not only from a covid perspective but from a crashing and injuring yourself perspective, because the last thing the ambulance service and hospital needed was wounded cyclists to fix back together.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Sounds like my wife.

Products are often aimed at different tiers according to the customer. But behind the scenes theres not always a lot of difference, except the wrapping. Often its down to volume, something premium, is made is less quantity and so commands a higher price, doesnt neccessarily mean its gold plated with fairy dust, its just demand restricted... making more just devalues it.

 

Try the difference between ready to eat peaches and ripen at home. Whilst having the same name that's where the comparison ends, two totally different products.

 

Likewise from the same retailer the difference between a £5 bottle of red wine and a £10 the dearer one is worlds apart.

 

I found out the hard wad the difference between a budget file and a Vallorbe file, whilst only a couple of £'s different, quality certainly shines out.

 

Granted some own brand items are the same as decent branded items but much cheaper. But on the whole I have found that by spending a bit more on quality pays

 

I have to admit, my old boss was right when he said dont buy the cheapest product on offer

[rocor]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

And this is how we get to the current global figures of approximately 50% food waste...

 

Maybe food shortages and strict rationing come January would not be a totally bad thing. It would concentrate the populaces attention to the sources and value of their daily sustenance, and I for one could certainly benefit from the discarding of some body bulk.

[hayfield]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

 

My wife used to work for a wine merchants - I can assure you that when it comes to decent wine, there's very little correlation between cost and quality - a decent mid-range bottle will beat a top 'name' hands down. There's huge snobbery when it comes to wine, so people will turn their nose up at a fantastic Portuguese/Eastern European/New World one and instead pay more for a poorer French/Italian/Spanish wine just because it's a "vintage"

 

Much the same with many other products - frequently the only difference between the branded version and the supermarket own brand is the label; made on the same production line in the same factory...

 

Nick

 

As I said buy good quality, not necessarily the dearest. For me once past £15 I probably will not tell the difference. Or fully appreciate it. 

 

As for own brands, the packaging can often point to its origin and as you say same product sold much cheaper

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

Is that documented anywhere?

 

As a resident of the London Borough of Rich-person Upon Thames I haven't heard that version.  We have St. Mary's University, which is relatively small, and which has admitted to having had "a few" (but an undisclosed) number of infections within its halls of residence.  Probably 2/3 of their students live out, some of them in our block, and behave like typical students.  Close the Student Union bar and they gather in their own homes to drink.  They are at least more respectful than the students of some other universities I have lived among.  

 

St. Mary's is significantly a sports university so around half of their students will actively play sport as a part of their studies.  That cannot be done online and musts be done competitively.  Those students might then bring to their university accommodation anything they may have been exposed to and that poses a real risk when they share common hallways and grounds with others including some extremely vulnerable tenants.  

 

But we know of no case among our numbers nor has there been any suggestion that any student in our community has tested positive.  

 

There have been other theories promulgated as to why the local rate in Richmond shot up at the start of October, which more or less coincided with the start of the university term, and is now stable and beginning to fall.  The Borough is home to a large number of quite affluent and senior citizens who are not averse to travel and who in other years might have been off on cruises.  It has been said - with as much documentable evidence as any other claim (i.e. none) that some of these people returned from overseas, were of course not tested upon arrival in the UK and were not required to quarantine either.  Lo and behold the virus escaped into the community.  

 

Looking at other areas with university populations nearby the same October spike is evident.  But in some other areas the downturn has also been sharper.  Richmond hasn't seen a sharp downturn yet but numbers are declining slowly.  Which suggests to me there is still a modest level of transmission through the community at large.  

 

Just offering a local perspective.  As I mentioned there is nothing published to support any of this either for or against.  

 

 

It was on the BBC saying the spike in Richmond's Covid infections was not being seen in the area but highly likely down to the children of Richmond's residents going away to uni (as you say its an affluent area where children are more likely to both go to uni and stay away from home) , catching Covid there but giving their home address rather than their uni address.  Its was surmised at being the fault in the Covid data capture where students gave their home rather than uni address 

[Gwiwer]

13 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

It was on the BBC saying the spike in Richmond's Covid infections was not being seen in the area but highly likely down to the children of Richmond's residents going away to uni (as you say its an affluent area where children are more likely to both go to uni and stay away from home) , catching Covid there but giving their home address rather than their uni address.  Its was surmised at being the fault in the Covid data capture where students gave their home rather than uni address 

It is apparent when the gov.co.uk interactive map is perused that the immediate vicinity of Richmond has remained one of low infection until October when it suddenly spiked.  What is more interesting in that regard is the breakdown by postcode which shows a more pronounced spike from almost zero infections locally in the postcode of St. Mary's University which suggests they might have had 100-200 cases.  If that is so then the rate in their halls is quite significant and they have kept it rather quiet.  The rate has recently begun to decline once more. Other areas of the Borough show their own unique patterns with some postcodes being consistently low-rate and one or two spiking quite high but only in the past 4-6 weeks.  Prior to which there was very little recorded infection at all.  

[rockershovel]

 

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

The Farm was having issues with (name of supermarket deleted) because the wonky potatoes weren’t wonky enough and were being rejected at the packaging firm......they said if the wonkies look too good it will damage the sales of the normal pots, the pots that were rejected were dumped by the packaging firm, waste hand over fist and nothing the Farmers can do about it, it’s a crime.

 

We supply cleaned potatoes, two supermarkets then get the packaging firm to package the pots with peat in the bags so they pots look like they have just been dug up!

 

Happens all over.

 

... these are known locally as “brownies”, the dried composting peat used for the purpose being quite unlike anything found out in the fens! 

 

Most of the East Anglian potato crop is bought by big processors like McCains and Findus. There are also huge, starchy cannon-balls grown for the “crisps and snacks” trade, primarily Walkers. Peterborough has a serious, regular problem with unpaid gang workers, this time of year.. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by rockershovel

[hayfield]

2 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

It is apparent when the gov.co.uk interactive map is perused that the immediate vicinity of Richmond has remained one of low infection until October when it suddenly spiked.  What is more interesting in that regard is the breakdown by postcode which shows a more pronounced spike from almost zero infections locally in the postcode of St. Mary's University which suggests they might have had 100-200 cases.  If that is so then the rate in their halls is quite significant and they have kept it rather quiet.  The rate has recently begun to decline once more. Other areas of the Borough show their own unique patterns with some postcodes being consistently low-rate and one or two spiking quite high but only in the past 4-6 weeks.  Prior to which there was very little recorded infection at all.  

 

I bet most in Richmond more or less follow the code and as you say stay relatively safe. They do have the benefit of good quality housing and space to roam, but even with these benefits you still need to be careful and be mindful of others

[LBRJ]

Talking of "premium products" and price differentials I have it on the very best authority that the tea bags offered by the patron saint of the High St and those from a well known supermarket chain's "own brand gold" are (or at least were) almost exactly the same.

 

The difference was that M&S insisted on their product having its own bespoke production line.

Edited November 5, 2020 by LBRJ

[melmerby]

The problem with a lot of the action over Covid is it's a blunt instrument but there probably isn't any other way.

I come under Bromsgrove which was in tier one and with a 200 case rate but Bromsgrove town was the nucleus of the cases.

We live about 12 miles away from the town and much nearer to Birmingham which was tier 2 with a 300+ case rate but AFAIK we are relatively low.