Shiney Sheff Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I have an old Triang Hornby Jinty with the Triang smoke generator, unfortunately the original element is missing, so I am looking for ideas to make a new one from scratch. I've looked on the Hornby forum and someone has repaired an existing one with 5amp fuse wire which will hopefully work, the thing is what could I use to form core, assuming the fuse wire will work. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I think they used to use a bit of cotton wool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted October 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, roythebus said: I think they used to use a bit of cotton wool. I've a feeling that the wadding used in the cast smoke oil reservoir was white fibrous asbestos! John Isherwood. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 (edited) The X.549 Synchrosmoke Element has a ceramic core, with brass, or plated brass, end caps. The wire is resistance wire. New old stock elements are sometimes available on eBay. You could also look for a used element, to get the core and end caps. Also, a complete loco, to use for parts? The element is common to all Synchrosmoke units, in both sizes of units, X.392 and the larger X.391, from 1964 to 1974. From 1961 to 1963, Tri-ang Railways used a brass, funnel like, Seuthe type smoke unit, R.520, later RT.520, that does not have a replaceable element. The Synchrosmoke wadding S.7599 and S.6905 is not asbestos...it’s more like (EDIT: NOT Gun cotton) a fireproof fabric. Sorry... my error entirely. I had heard that it was a type of fire resistant wadding, used with guns. 2 plus 2, in this case, made 6! It has also been suggested that it may be similar to the filling used in the old “petrol” ( lighter fluid) lighters? One thing I have noticed is that it can char or scorch if not kept oiled... Edited May 12, 2022 by Ruffnut Thorston Added wadding reference and service sheets 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted October 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2020 4 minutes ago, Sarahagain said: The wadding is not asbestos...it’s more like gun cotton. Thank you for the correction. What I do know - for a fact - is that the loco oil inspection flare lamp that I was given, by an ex-engineman, had a wick of stranded white asbestos. John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Sarahagain said: ...it’s more like gun cotton. I think not... Gun cotton, otherwise known as Nitrocellulose, is very highly inflammable and was used as a propellant in naval guns. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 The X.549 element was one of those common spares that eventually ran out making original spare fuses quite pricey. Depending on how desperate the buyer is the going rate is somewhere between £10-£25 each. Given the fact the the Synchrosmoke unit is really just an entertaining gimmick, and that unless it is kept charged with smoke oil the element really needs to be removed to stop the element burning out, canny people with no intention of using it can sometimes get much of the purchase price of an old Triang loco back by just removing and selling it. I was lucky myself to source a supply around a decade back from a model shop closing down. They had a box of 'crap' found in the storeroom. Rooting through it I found a plastic bag with around a hundred elements in it - when I asked them what they wanted for it they asked for a pound..... Before everyone piles in, I did over the subsequent years offload the majority, keeping just enough to last me hopefully for the remainder of my train-playing days. It would indeed be handy if someone with suitable skills engineered a replacement, there is a market for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Some time ago I purchased a Tri-ang Britannia (the price was right!). On getting her home and test running I was surprised to see smoke (well fumes really) come from the chimney, as I didn't realise I'd acquired a 'smoking' one. The unit was speedily disconnected. The idea of selling the smoke pipe is good, but I suspect the item has been lost over the years. They fall out quite easily. Quote: "Rooting through it I found a plastic bag with around a hundred elements in it - when I asked them what they wanted for it they asked for a pound...." They probably thought they'd got the better side of the deal! Asbestos used to be considered a wonder material up to about the mid seventies, though I seem to recall reading an article warning about its downside dated about 1910. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 (edited) On 25/10/2020 at 08:35, goldfish said: I think not... Gun cotton, otherwise known as Nitrocellulose, is very highly inflammable and was used as a propellant in naval guns. Sorry... my error entirely. I had heard that it was a type of fire resistant wadding, used with guns. 2 plus 2, in this case, made 6! It has also been suggested that it may be similar to the filling used in the old “petrol” ( lighter fluid) lighters? One thing I have noticed is that it can char or scorch if not kept oiled... Edited October 27, 2020 by Sarahagain Typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted October 27, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 25/10/2020 at 22:18, Il Grifone said: Quote: "Rooting through it I found a plastic bag with around a hundred elements in it - when I asked them what they wanted for it they asked for a pound...." They probably thought they'd got the better side of the deal! They probably did think they did well, as they'd had them sitting on the shelf for many years. So anything they got for it was a bonus! How many small detail parts got tossed, whereas these days eBay would clear the stock easily. Fact is it used to be difficult to make the wider world aware, that you had such items for sale. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiney Sheff Posted October 27, 2020 Author Share Posted October 27, 2020 Well I tried the fuse wire method and no, it doesn't work, all it did was short everything out. Back to the drawing board. Bob 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Original X.549 element. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamsRadial Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 25/10/2020 at 21:39, Sarahagain said: It has also been suggested that it may be similar to the filling used in the old “petrol” ( lighter fluid) lighters? I think that was cotton wool? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I should have one somewhere, taken from a Pannier that was being 'scaled'. I'll have to have a look for it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiney Sheff Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 18 hours ago, Sarahagain said: Original X.549 element. I've seen the add for this one but still £23 including postage 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 They haven’t been made new since around 1975 I think. Peter’s Spares may possibly be thinking of remaking some? There is some demand it seems... They have done many parts for the X.04/ 03 motors... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 I seem to remember that the element was made from very fine Nichrome wire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Resistance wire is what you need. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ramrig Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 Nichrome wire coils are what are used in a lot of Vape machines at low voltages. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 On 28/10/2020 at 23:38, Ramrig said: Nichrome wire coils are what are used in a lot of Vape machines at low voltages. Well it makes sense given that we are trying to get the loco to 'vape' 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I wonder if they do Welsh Steam Coal scented 'vape oil'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 There are all sorts of scented oils available, aimed at railway smoke units. One brand, is Mega Steam, from the USA. http://www.megasteam.com/ Also available from places including... https://www.petersspares.com/index.jsp?searchStr=Mega+steam 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted November 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Ruffnut Thorston said: There are all sorts of scented oils available, aimed at railway smoke units. One brand, is Mega Steam, from the USA. http://www.megasteam.com/ Also available from places including... https://www.petersspares.com/index.jsp?searchStr=Mega+steam Unwashed visitors at an exhibition? So you can give them a taste of their own medicine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 So, the element has the following: - Brass Ends - Ceramic Core - Restistance Wire Wrapping A few questions if someone knows please: 1. I presume the wire is wrapped in a spiral, linking the two brass caps? 2. How many turns does the wire have? 3. Please can someone with an original element measure the resistance between the two brass caps please? 4. Also, can somone provide the dimensions please? Length, Cap Diameter and Ceramic Diameter 5. Lastly, do we know if the ceramic core is hollow? If it is, does it contain anything? Just trying to figure out the technology with a view to designing a home brew alternative Thanks all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
33C Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Ordinary Johnson's baby oil is a very effective smoke oil ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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