Are Electric Scooters Road Legal or Not!?

[Ray Von]

I recently spent a weekend in London and was amazed at the number of electric (stand on) scooters on the roads.  I was under the impression that they were only road legal if HIRED but these were clearly not. 

It wasn't just a case of youngsters zipping around for fun, many were grown adults in suits, clearly on their way to the office etc. 

Personally, I could really make use of one, but was always put off by the fact that I thought that they were only for use on private land (and despite seeing plenty about where I live, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd be the muggins to get a fine!)

I can't see anything online that suggests that they are road legal - and yet they were ubiquitous in the capital, often with an oblivious police presence nearby! 

If anyone can clarify, I'd be very grateful.  Cheers.

[TheQ]

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users

[Ray Von]

5 minutes ago, TheQ said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users

That's astounding!  Mot, Licence and Insurance, crash helmet, high-vis?  Have to say I saw no evidence of the latter two last weekend!  

[Dagworth]

2 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

That's astounding!  Mot, Licence and Insurance, crash helmet, high-vis?  Have to say I saw no evidence of the latter two last weekend!  

No seat belt needed then? That surprises me with this lot in charge.

 

Andi

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, Ray Von said:

 Have to say I saw no evidence of the latter two last weekend!  

 

No - but thats not surprising given how easily available they are to buy.

 

Lots of folk (including two of my signaller colleagues) have bought the things and ride them to work even though the only place you can legally use them is their driveways and the depot car park.

 

 

 

 

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, Dagworth said:

No seat belt needed then? That surprises me with this lot in charge.

 

Andi

 

The point is that for blind / partially sighted people they can be lethal.

 

Hence the insistence that they should not be used on footpaths** (just as is the case with bicycles) and need to be mixing it with other traffic on the road itself. That of course brings in the need for compliance with all sorts of other laws / regulations regarding vehicle construction standards, insurance and driving licence unless exemptions are written into the laws / regulations as per bicycles*

 

 

* electric bicycles are speed limited to 15mph when powered by an electric motor - the same as the scooters being used in the trials

 

** Shared use footpaths are disliked / avoided by people with sight problems

[phil-b259]

37 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

I recently spent a weekend in London and was amazed at the number of electric (stand on) scooters on the roads.  I was under the impression that they were only road legal if HIRED but these were clearly not. 

It wasn't just a case of youngsters zipping around for fun, many were grown adults in suits, clearly on their way to the office etc. 

Personally, I could really make use of one, but was always put off by the fact that I thought that they were only for use on private land (and despite seeing plenty about where I live, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd be the muggins to get a fine!)

I can't see anything online that suggests that they are road legal - and yet they were ubiquitous in the capital, often with an oblivious police presence nearby! 

If anyone can clarify, I'd be very grateful.  Cheers.

 

They are ILLEGAL on public roads (unless you are hiring one from the operator in the cities hosting trials) and its also ILLEGAL to ride them on footpaths (INCLUDING the cities hosting the trials).

 

I suspect that what with all the other things the police have to do cracking down on e-scooters is low down the list of priorities - unfortunately it will probably take a a fatal accident or two with a pedestrian for things to change.

Edited October 6, 2020 by phil-b259

[melmerby]

Unfortunately the cat is out of the bag.

If it had been illegal to sell them right from the start, it might have been possible to suppress their use.

Unfortunately as in a number of cases if they are legal for use on private land people will buy them and use them wherever they want, probably knowing the cops don't have the manpower for dealing with such 'petty' infringements.

Stopping cycling on pavements isn't enforced, stopping people using e-scooters illegally won't be either.

[phil-b259]

8 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Unfortunately the cat is out of the bag.

If it had been illegal to sell them right from the start, it might have been possible to suppress their use.

Unfortunately as in a number of cases if they are legal for use on private land people will buy them and use them wherever they want, probably knowing the cops don't have the manpower for dealing with such 'petty' infringements.

Stopping cycling on pavements isn't enforced, stopping people using e-scooters illegally won't be either.

 

Agreed - and to some extent we have seen this before with Drones which became very popular with the public at large before the Government tried to do something about them.

 

What is needed is a Government department which becomes actively involved with inventive concepts at an early stage and can speedily get legislation through parliament to control them. Unfortunately that is seen by one political party as too much interference in "the power of the free market" (e.g. ban UK retailers from selling them / a ban on shipping them to UK addresses) so we get "bolt the stable door only after the horse has bolted" approach.

 

Also at one time there were enough Police about that stopping people cycling on pavements was enforceable. True it didn't stop it, but it was a deterrent which worked to a degree. Again politicians and voters demanding ever lower tax bills have a lot to answer for....

Edited October 6, 2020 by phil-b259

[duncan]

Adults cycling on pavements has become more of a problem here since lockdown started - all the new / returning cyclists out for a hurl.

[Ray Von]

This is article is a bit old now but quite interesting:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/samshead/2019/08/28/how-electric-scooter-startups-are-battling-the-uk-government-to-change-a-law-dating-back-to-1835/

[Ray Von]

How can this eBay seller make the claims they do?

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Ray Von

[TheQ]

2 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

How can this seller make the claims they do? :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/293351155385

because it's so low powered it's counted as an electrically assisted Bicycle you have to pedal it along it won't just use electric power

[Ray Von]

13 minutes ago, TheQ said:

because it's so low powered it's counted as an electrically assisted Bicycle you have to pedal it along it won't just use electric power

That seems a very grey area?  I'd have thought the scooter would fit into that category...

[TheQ]

I never said the laws were sensible, but that the situation at the moment. 

An electric scooter will run without human assistance, a electric bicycle to the latest regs won't, you have to keep pedalling.

I suspect after the trials there will be a wholesale revision of the laws regarding non human powered vehicles and I wouldn't be surprised if  you have to take a  test..

[Ray Von]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users

I can't see anything that says what the trials are actually for....

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

They are ILLEGAL on public roads (unless you are hiring one from the operator in the cities hosting trials) and its also ILLEGAL to ride them on footpaths (INCLUDING the cities hosting the trials).

 

I suspect that what with all the other things the police have to do cracking down on e-scooters is low down the list of priorities - unfortunately it will probably take a a fatal accident or two with a pedestrian for things to change.

There has already been one fatality in our neck of the woods and that was at least 18 months ago.  Notwithstanding that I saw one being used on a public road - a main road to be exact - here getting on for 12 months ago and the dimwit 'riding' it wasn't even wearing a crash helmet although he seemed to be wobbling about a bit.

[woodenhead]

30 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

I can't see anything that says what the trials are actually for....

To see if they are more or less lethal than Covid.

[melmerby]

I would imagine "Segway" machines would fall into the same category as e-scooters but people ride them on pavements. (illegally)

Edited October 6, 2020 by melmerby

[Ray Von]

35 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I would imagine "Segway" machines would fall into the same category as e-scooters but people ride them on pavements. (illegally)

Have to say that I've never seen one of those locally, "Hoverboards" were very popular a few years back - recently saw a neighbour of my parents, in his seventies, zooming up and down on one along the cycle track near their house!  Broken hip waiting to happen there... 

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

They are ILLEGAL on public roads (unless you are hiring one from the operator in the cities hosting trials) and its also ILLEGAL to ride them on footpaths (INCLUDING the cities hosting the trials).

 

I suspect that what with all the other things the police have to do cracking down on e-scooters is low down the list of priorities - unfortunately it will probably take a a fatal accident or two with a pedestrian for things to change.

 

Just to add confusion, things are different here in Milton Keynes, which is one of the areas trialling them.

They are legal on public roads with a speed limit no higher than 30mph. I had to scan my driving license into the app used to hire them. I have not used one yet because I am recovering from a broken leg, so jumping on & off one would not be such a good idea for me right now. I may not used one either.

Along with cycles, they are legal on redways; MK's pathways which are grade separated from roads.

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

its also ILLEGAL to ride them on footpaths (INCLUDING the cities hosting the trials).

 

It isn't quite as simple as that.

 

In Milton Keynes we have a massive network of "shared use paths", on which you can walk and cycle  and ride an electric bike and, for the duration of the trial, use an e-scooter. 

 

I think the same may apply in the other trial cities.

 

So far, the take-up of the trial seems pretty un-enthusiastic. I use the paths a lot and barely see one of the trial hire-scooters in use (lots parked, and the odd one apparently abandoned). But, I do see a lot of people riding their own e-scooters, and "hover boards", and e-bikes, and an illlegal  on these paths form of e-bike that is actually classed as a moped, and electric wheelchairs, and mobility scooters, and autonomous delivery robots.

 

All these e-things are OK when conducted by sensible people (or sensible computers in the case of the robots), but become a ruddy nuisance when conducted by thoughtless twerps, but the same is true of bicycles.

 

On a conventional city-street pavement they would be a disaster, as indeed are ordinary bikes and non-powered scooters. On a conventional busy road, suicidal, partly because the wheel are too small to ride over potholes without pitching people off.

 

All in all, I think an e-assisted-bike is a better option from a safety and practicality standpoint if you aren't up to proper pedaling, and wonder if the scooters will be a bit of a flash in the pan.

 

A key issue BTW with all e-things for use on shared paths is the power rating. IIRC e-bikes can legally provide 250W to supplement the pedaling, and that is actually a fair bit of power - an ordinarily fit person, rather than an athlete, can only sustain c175W for a long period. So, for my money, e-things need to be no more than about 200W, to avoid  "speeding".

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Ray Von]

Sad to say, but I think round my way autonomous delivery robots wouldn't last long....

[melmerby]

10 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

It isn't quite as simple as that.

 

In Milton Keynes we have a massive network of "shared use paths", on which you can walk and cycle  and ride an electric bike and, for the duration of the trial, use an e-scooter. 

 

I think the same may apply in the other trial cities.

 

 

In Birmingham they are also being trialled but there isn't much in the way of proper cycle infrastructure so they will be mainly used on roads and limited to 15mph.

They are not allowed on pavements or in pedestrianised areas but neither are cycles or mopeds but the delivery idiots (Deliveroo, Uber Eats etc.) regularly ride their motor scooters where they shouldn't be and the police just ignore them.

So I imagine the e-scooter is here to say, legal or not and will be on a pavement near you, if it isn't yet.

Yet another hazard for the blind/disabled/elderly etc who it seems aren't important in the big scheme of things.

Edited October 6, 2020 by melmerby

[Pete the Elaner]

8 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 

So far, the take-up of the trial seems pretty un-enthusiastic. I use the paths a lot and barely see one of the trial hire-scooters in use (lots parked, and the odd one apparently abandoned).

 

 

 

I have not seen many out & about either...but that is not surprising because I have not been out much lately.

A friend mentioned that he had not seen any docking stations for them, like for the hire bikes. This stirred my curiosity so I downloaded the app (called 'spin') to find out a little more about how they work:

The app tells you where they are & how much charge each one has left. You scan a code to enable it, then when you've finished, you are supposed to park it sensibly & take a photo to prove it.

 

I saw a line of about 10 ready to go near one of the large tiled underpasses in town yesterday, but not docked to anything.

The app shows there are 5 in a line all immediately south of the theatre right now. These are all fully charged, so it looks like they are collected when running low then dropped off together in a group once ready for use again.