Mike1220 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Good evening everyone,  After purchasing some Liliput locomotives a few months back, I was very surprised and pleased to see that they were 8 Pin 'DCC Ready'.  I was wondering if there are any other German manufacturers whose 2-rail DC models also come as DCC Ready please?  I know that Fleischmann, Roco and Brawa make some beautiful models and it would be great to include some of their fine work into my collection, and not have to worry if they are already DCC fitted or not.  Sadly I do not have the time or patience to convert the really old ones re-soldering wires etc.  Thanking you all in advance,  Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 Hello Mike Welcome to the wonderful world of German outline modelling! Digital control was pioneered quite early on by two German firms, Lenz and Arnold - this eventually led to the NMRA (in the USA) to adopt the 'German way' of doing things, standards etc by around the early 1990s.* Subsequently, you should find that most German/European manufacturers have adopted these standards over the past 25-30 years - HOWEVER do be warned! What was once a 'standard' is barely that any longer and manufacturers hardly use the good old 8 pin decoder socket any more - on new introductions/revamps. So now, you have 6, 8 & 21 pin sockets along with NEXT 12, 18 & 22 pin sockets (I think) I can't give an exhaustive list of who fits what decoder socket but fortunately, most European manufacturers do state what type is fitted on the box, in the catalogue, online (not always accurately!). I know I have been surprised when buying the occasional quite ancient secondhand item and finding it has a socket, close coupling mechanism, correct height NEM coupling socket, etc, etc. Cheers, John.  *I'm probably wrong on minor details but I'm sure this is the gist of what happened. The Americans were working on some bespoke systems but they were somewhat unwieldy so thank goodness for the above two firms. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bernard Lamb Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 On 15/09/2020 at 19:47, Allegheny1600 said: Hello Mike Welcome to the wonderful world of German outline modelling! Digital control was pioneered quite early on by two German firms, Lenz and Arnold - this eventually led to the NMRA (in the USA) to adopt the 'German way' of doing things, standards etc by around the early 1990s.* Subsequently, you should find that most German/European manufacturers have adopted these standards over the past 25-30 years - HOWEVER do be warned! What was once a 'standard' is barely that any longer and manufacturers hardly use the good old 8 pin decoder socket any more - on new introductions/revamps. So now, you have 6, 8 & 21 pin sockets along with NEXT 12, 18 & 22 pin sockets (I think) I can't give an exhaustive list of who fits what decoder socket but fortunately, most European manufacturers do state what type is fitted on the box, in the catalogue, online (not always accurately!). I know I have been surprised when buying the occasional quite ancient secondhand item and finding it has a socket, close coupling mechanism, correct height NEM coupling socket, etc, etc. Cheers, John.  *I'm probably wrong on minor details but I'm sure this is the gist of what happened. The Americans were working on some bespoke systems but they were somewhat unwieldy so thank goodness for the above two firms. I would say pretty well spot on. Take 1992 as a base line and there should be no problems with any second hand purchases. Bernard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neils WRX Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 For Roco I would say it was a bit later than 1992, maybe 1997-98. Â Stay safe, Â Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 However a caveat. If you are using or going to use a "pure" DCC system such as NCE or Gaugemaster then be very aware that anything you buy secondhand marked "digital" (as opposed to "DCC") is likely to be one of the manufacturers' own systems that they all used before coming on board with "pure" DCC and compatability-  Arnold digital Selectrix Fleischmann FMZ  are not compatable with each other and unless specifically stated are not compatable with an NCE or Gaugemaster controller- or in some cases with a Roco Lokmaus...  The good news is that old Liliput are quite easy to hard wire, though old Roco Tender driven locos have the motor so heavily embedded in the frame there isn't really enough space for any insulation- needed as the frame is one side of the electrical connection to the motor. Most locos that are DCC compliant will have an icon on the outside of the box showing what type of interface the loco has.  guess who found out most of this the hard way....... Les  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Hi  I found this link long ago. You can find many descriptions how to digitize pre-DCC locos . Even if your model is not there, it gives you a good idea how to do it. Many pictures and some German language descriptions. Definitely worth reading.  Michael 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike1220 Posted October 4, 2020 Author Share Posted October 4, 2020 Thank you all for your replies they have been very helpful. Â I will shortly be adding some Roco and Fleischmann steam locomotives to my collection once they arrive.... They certainly look beautiful, and as much as I love my OO locos and rolling stock, the German manufacturers appear to be leaps ahead.... Â Mike. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 9, 2020 Share Posted October 9, 2020 On 04/10/2020 at 18:17, Mike1220 said: snip. . . . much as I love my OO locos and rolling stock, the German manufacturers appear to be leaps ahead....  Mike. Hi Mike, Shhh! Whisper that quietly on here as in my experience, most '00' folk don't like to hear that!!!  I will add that Roco locos can be prone to small parts falling off, never to be seen again and please - don't buy the Roco BR93.5 as it's a notoriously poor runner with a badly balanced chassis. Fleischmann steam locos are often tender drive (some folk dislike that for some reason), the more modern models have can type motors but I don't think they ever got around to fully eradicating the "ringfield" (or Round) motor but even that was still WAY better than the Hornby or Lima attempt. Back in the early/mid 2000's when I was buying a lot of Fleischman models, I was surprised to get a few brand new, digital ready, models so fitted but they're still running and will no doubt, see me out (in hopefully, 40 years or so!) If you want Tonka Toy tough, go for Trix! Metal bodies/boilers/chassis, quality motor in the boiler giving excellent performance - they'll go forever! The flanges are often on the high side but boy, are they reliable. Older models are rather agricultural and you get gear noise admittedly but they won't let you down. The newest models are sublime however expensive. Even better engineered are Gutzold with increased prices to match, I only have a couple but they are awesome. Then there's Brawa - expensive but sublime and DELICATE, Piko - some models lovely, some rather crude, Lilliput (Bachput!) - usually decent enough, newer models getting expensive. Stay away from older Rivarossi models really and avoid Kleinbahn as much as possible.  My favourite brand for steam outline was always Fleischmann but since they've gone now, I would have to say Trix is overall best. This is my experience from over 100 steam locos over the past 20+ years - what's odd is that for D/E traction, I'd say Roco wins overall! I hope this is helpful to you. Cheers, John.  2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 I have somehow acquired a Roco Br44 which is too elderly to have a socket... is there a guide to hardwiring a decoder into this machine? Â It's a lovely piece of kit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michl080 Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 check http://www.hp-pfeiffer.de/digi_umbau1/dcc/roco_br44/br44_roco.html  Michael 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted November 15, 2020 Share Posted November 15, 2020 Thank you! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pooldoc58 Posted March 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2021 Piko do a wide range of dcc ready wroth a look at Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellocoloco Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Just a short word of caution.  I have a Roco DB 211 BoBo - 43635 - from the late 90s. This is 8 pin DCC ready. I had two decoders fail in this loco and through discussions on another forum the problem was narrowed down to the bulbs drawing too much current for the decoder.  I remember Roco catalogues had mentioned that if you were converting locos then you also needed to change the bulbs from 12v to 16v. I have other Roco locos with 8 pin sockets and bulbs which have never had any problems but they are just from the other side of the millennium and a lot happened in DCC in those few years. The spare bulbs listed for my 211 are rated at 12v60mA, the spare bulbs listed for the other Roco locos I have are rated at 16v30mA. It was a little disappointing that Roco shipped this model with 12V bulbs, but hey-ho, that was years ago. I removed the lights on the loco and it now runs fine.  It would be well worth checking the bulb specifications with early models. I will certainly do so if I chip any more of the early Roco DCC ready models I have. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian Morgan Posted March 11, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 11, 2022 Funnily enough, I have just DCC fitted a couple of second hand German N gauge locos this evening, one Trix and one Roco. Both were fitted with bulbs and were sort-of DCC ready. The Roco one had a 6 pin 'blanking' plate and the Trix one had space for a decoder, and 6 solder tabs to solder the decoder to. Â Both light up the bulbs, but so dim they are almost undetectable with the bodies on. I will replace them with surface mount LEDs. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 3 hours ago, ellocoloco said: Just a short word of caution.  I have a Roco DB 211 BoBo - 43635 - from the late 90s. This is 8 pin DCC ready. I had two decoders fail in this loco and through discussions on another forum the problem was narrowed down to the bulbs drawing too much current for the decoder.  I remember Roco catalogues had mentioned that if you were converting locos then you also needed to change the bulbs from 12v to 16v. I have other Roco locos with 8 pin sockets and bulbs which have never had any problems but they are just from the other side of the millennium and a lot happened in DCC in those few years. The spare bulbs listed for my 211 are rated at 12v60mA, the spare bulbs listed for the other Roco locos I have are rated at 16v30mA. It was a little disappointing that Roco shipped this model with 12V bulbs, but hey-ho, that was years ago. I removed the lights on the loco and it now runs fine.  It would be well worth checking the bulb specifications with early models. I will certainly do so if I chip any more of the early Roco DCC ready models I have.  I have bought a few second-hand Roco and Fleischmann locos in recent years, some DCC-ready, some not. Conversion of the ones without sockets was not all that difficult because the single layer PCBs they tended to use, so it was easy to follow the tracks and cut them where necessary to then solder wires. While doing all this, I replaced bulbs with LEDs and suitable resistors. 5mm LEDs usually sit nicely in the allowed space for the old bulbs. Finding space for the decoder was the most difficult bit, I think. The rest was just procedural, following connections carefully before connecting or cutting anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maico Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 (edited) On 10/03/2022 at 20:55, ellocoloco said: Just a short word of caution.  I have a Roco DB 211 BoBo - 43635 - from the late 90s. This is 8 pin DCC ready. I had two decoders fail in this loco and through discussions on another forum the problem was narrowed down to the bulbs drawing too much current for the decoder.  I remember Roco catalogues had mentioned that if you were converting locos then you also needed to change the bulbs from 12v to 16v. I have other Roco locos with 8 pin sockets and bulbs which have never had any problems but they are just from the other side of the millennium and a lot happened in DCC in those few years. The spare bulbs listed for my 211 are rated at 12v60mA, the spare bulbs listed for the other Roco locos I have are rated at 16v30mA. It was a little disappointing that Roco shipped this model with 12V bulbs, but hey-ho, that was years ago. I removed the lights on the loco and it now runs fine.  It would be well worth checking the bulb specifications with early models. I will certainly do so if I chip any more of the early Roco DCC ready models I have.  The current instructions for the ESU Lokpilot V5 that I use says the high initial current draw on old type 12v bulbs can trip the aux outputs leading to flickering and advises 16v30mA or LED. I tried an old gaugemaster 8 pin decoder in a 1998 Brawa with 12v bulbs and it worked fine. In a 2004 Trix crocodile 19v70mA it produced a burning smell and blew! The bulbs are still ok and the main part of the decoder still works but it's clearly rubbish compared to better decoders... Edited May 6, 2022 by maico 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamThomas Posted May 13, 2022 Share Posted May 13, 2022 Best to replace any 12v bulbs with 24v bulbs anyway. (12v bulbs will be far too bright anyway, even if the decoder will handle the current). Â During my early DCC days with Fleischmann Equipment I recall that they recommended replacing bulbs & they did supply higher voltage (believed to be 24v) for this very purpose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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