simmo009 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 In respect of these, do they become less feasible as the scale/gauge gets smaller? I have been told they are 'impossible ' in N gauge. Can anyone tell me of functional instances of hinged lifting sections in this size, and what (if any) additional precautions or works are necessary to ensure a successful outcome. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 I've got a 4 track, N Gauge, hinged, lifting section on my layout and it works fine. I chose to use Vero board to solder the track to rather than screws as I found it easier to work with. Other than that it's what you would expect, hinges mounted on blocks above the baseboard to ensure that the tracks swing up and away when lifting. The only issue that I had was with the one track that didn't have a join in the middle of the hinged section, because it is soldered at both ends a ended up with a nice hump back bridge when the temperature went up. I fixed that by cutting the track and inserting some rail joiners so that there was some room for expansion. Pretty simple really. Regards, John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo009 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 Thank you John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 9 hours ago, jpendle said: I've got a 4 track, N Gauge, hinged, lifting section on my layout and it works fine. I chose to use Vero board to solder the track to rather than screws as I found it easier to work with. Other than that it's what you would expect, hinges mounted on blocks above the baseboard to ensure that the tracks swing up and away when lifting. The only issue that I had was with the one track that didn't have a join in the middle of the hinged section, because it is soldered at both ends a ended up with a nice hump back bridge when the temperature went up. I fixed that by cutting the track and inserting some rail joiners so that there was some room for expansion. Pretty simple really. Regards, John P John, Any chance of some pictures, I'm about to add some 9mm track to a larger layout, and all the 'experts' are saying it can't be done, but I believe it can. So pictures might help convince them (and shut them up!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo009 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 Any more examples, preferably with pictures, would be most welcome. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) Here are some pictures. Regards, John P Edited July 27, 2020 by jpendle 6 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo009 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 Fabulous John, much appreciated. Nice layout in progress there too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AndyB Posted July 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2020 12 hours ago, jpendle said: Here are some pictures. Regards, John P John. Can I ask if you used dowels - or similar - to align the tracks at the lifting end? I'm imaging some potential play in the hinges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted July 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2020 2 hours ago, AndyB said: John. Can I ask if you used dowels - or similar - to align the tracks at the lifting end? I'm imaging some potential play in the hinges. My lifting section has been made the same as John's. I don't use any alignment system except for feeling the tops of the rails to ensure they are lined up. Every now and then I will get a coach jump off at the fly end of the bridge where it has started to drift. Rerail, realign and carry on having fun. I do think about a means of holding the alignment but still haven't got round to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Hi, For now I'm just using a screw to align the whole thing. So I have to unscrew it to lift it and then screw it down again. When I get round to the scenics I'll have to use some other way to align the tracks. Regards, John P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted July 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 28, 2020 I’ve got one edge of my hinged section secured at the moment, might try and get the other secure this week if I get a chance, I’ve done something a bit different and used clear resin to secure the tracks at the join, obviously it’s tracked down but I made a little moat and filled the gap between the boards with cling film covered card then filled the resin up to the rail top In the outside and sleeper top in the 4ft, let it harden for a few days (could have checked it after an hour to be honest) then got a dremel across the rails on the join seems to have stayed secure so far And with the rail cut and open go to do similar in the opposite side too 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 N gauge is a different kettle of Haddock to OO gauge re lifting sections, in that my favoured method of soldering rail ends to long brass screws screwed right through the baseboard surface and deep into the framing doesn't really work with screws only 9mm apart. Given that the verobond method makes a lot of sense. What I find essential is to ensure the non hinge end of the lifting section sits down absolutely flat on the far baseboard, if it doesn't the board will flex and your track will not stay aligned. If the far end is absolutely solid the lifting section will twist to sit down flat. If its doesn't land flat adjust the hinges. I use car bonnet hinges, like oversize wallpaper table hinges. Mine are about 1" wide some are less than 9mm wide. screwed to the side of the lifting section and baseboard with a number of screws and baseboard with the pivot around 13 to 25mm above track level they don't come loose the way domestic door hinges do and don't need to be aligned as accurately as the domestic hinges. If the domestic hinge pivots are not accurately aligned in all 3 planes the Hinge supports flex, The car bonnet / wall papering table ones are tighter fitting and yet can cope with some misalignment. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo009 Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 Big Jim, I must say that your use of resin is quite ingenious, we never even considered that. David, yes, levelling and solidity are key, more so as the scale gets smaller. We are looking to build a large multi-gauge layout, and the N group have raised concerns. We did some quick and dirty track laying on the existing O/OO bridge last night with just standard track pins, and it worked well. The current bridge was designed with O gauge in mind, and OO has recently been added. Our builder really did a fantastic job on them, especially when you consider they had to be repaired twice due to incorrect operation (the mind boggles). So the new bridges will have much tighter tolerances to cater for the N. Luckily, we own our clubhouse, so we are able to cast steel supports for the bridges into the floor to limit movement in this critical area. Thanks all of you so far, keep them coming. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 I had two lift out sections across a doorway on my layout I used some two part bolt together plastic corner blocks without the bolt to ensure that the ends stayed in alignment. I also fed one rail electrically on either side of the bridge section across the bridge so that if the bridge was out there was automatically an unpowered section of track leading up to the abyss. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 31/07/2020 at 18:32, Trog said: I had two lift out sections across a doorway on my layout I used some two part bolt together plastic corner blocks without the bolt to ensure that the ends stayed in alignment. I also fed one rail electrically on either side of the bridge section across the bridge so that if the bridge was out there was automatically an unpowered section of track leading up to the abyss. That system works well until you have a train with the loco or power bogie at the back. I built a hinged flap which swings up automatically when the lifting section is raised to block off the end of the main line tracks where you can't see trains approaching from the usual control positions. Hitting the floor can cause damaged couplings on 60 year old die cast locos and total destruction of current Hornby etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmo009 Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 We use micro switches to kill a goodly length of the bridge approach track when it is lifted. Currently I have not looked at this bit of electrickery, but it works well. Our club has several people who do this stuff for a living, so I defer to them. Our bridge builder extraordinaire is cooking up a hybrid from these suggestions, I think the resin method is looking favourite, combined with some bonnet hinges, and a male/female cone system for alignment. Maybe a metal frame too. I will post pictures once we make a start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted August 6, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) I like that resin method, like others, I'd not thought of it, and I have large quantities of resin for 304mm to the foot boat repair . It will be deployed, probably not just on lifting sections, but all board joints. The three lifting sections on the home layout will have power cut off built in, having seen the results of a show layout I was watching, not having a cassette in place for the incoming train, there being no ply base to the fiddle yard, just a diagonal braced space... Edited August 6, 2020 by TheQ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 6 hours ago, simmo009 said: We use micro switches to kill a goodly length of the bridge approach track when it is lifted. Currently I have not looked at this bit of electrickery, but it works well. Our club has several people who do this stuff for a living, so I defer to them. Our bridge builder extraordinaire is cooking up a hybrid from these suggestions, I think the resin method is looking favourite, combined with some bonnet hinges, and a male/female cone system for alignment. Maybe a metal frame too. I will post pictures once we make a start. The micro-switches* actually trigger relays, due to the number of running lines being protected. Unfortunately, it's looking likely that the hybrid bridge will need to be multi-level, as well as multi-gauge! *The micro-switches are mains rated, salvaged out of motorised valves from heating systems. These m/switches are very robust, being designed for multiple, daily switching over many years. PS, don't 'big me up' too much, I haven't built them yet! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Does anyone have a simple design, please, where lifting the lift section would kill the power, both for the lift section and a foot or so either side? I think I can work out how the wiring would need to be arranged but I am struggling to visualise a simple way to make/break the electrical connections. Best wishes Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted October 26, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 26, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, burgundy said: Does anyone have a simple design, please, where lifting the lift section would kill the power, both for the lift section and a foot or so either side? I think I can work out how the wiring would need to be arranged but I am struggling to visualise a simple way to make/break the electrical connections. Best wishes Eric my layout is DCC, and has a reversing loop across a lift-out bridge, which crosses the operating well. I remove it when working on the layout for easier access to whole layout. The power is taken from the main track bus at one side of where the bridge connects to the layout, through the auto reversing loop module (Although of course if not required that could be omitted) and then connects to the bridge track through inline phono plugs/sockets which hang below the baseboard adjacent to the bridge. There are then similar connections (again phonos) running from each end of the bridge track back to the isolated track section (approx 15”) either side of the bridge All connections to track on bridge are via droppers with wire stuck to underside of bridge. Obviously when bridge is removed, phonos are not connected - hence no power to track either side. Edited October 26, 2020 by ITG 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 48 minutes ago, ITG said: ..... connects to the bridge track through inline phono plugs/sockets which hang below the baseboard adjacent to the bridge. There are then similar connections (again phonos) running from each end of the bridge track back to the isolated track section (approx 15”) either side of the bridge Thanks ITG. I had been trying to think of a way to connect the power without separate plugs. Plugging in is not the problem; it is the possibility of forgetting to unplug when you lift the bridge! Best wishes Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcm@gwr Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 You need the connections as part of the bridge, so either use micro-switches, or have contact points (eg, drawing pins against brass sheet) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Isherwood Posted October 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2020 On 31/07/2020 at 18:32, Trog said: I had two lift out sections across a doorway on my layout I used some two part bolt together plastic corner blocks without the bolt to ensure that the ends stayed in alignment. I also fed one rail electrically on either side of the bridge section across the bridge so that if the bridge was out there was automatically an unpowered section of track leading up to the abyss. My proposal is to have a couple of brass slide bolts at the opposite end of the lifting section from the hinges. One of these slide bolts will carry the common return wiring for all the sections of track either side side of the lifting section. So, if the lifting section is not lowered and secured by the bolt, nothing will move within the track sections either side of the lifting section. This pre-supposes that the sections of track either side of the lifting section will be isolated from the common return elsewhere on the layout. John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, cctransuk said: My proposal is to have a couple of brass slide bolts at the opposite end of the lifting section from the hinges. One of these slide bolts will carry the common return wiring for all the sections of track either side side of the lifting section. So, if the lifting section is not lowered and secured by the bolt, nothing will move within the track sections either side of the lifting section. This pre-supposes that the sections of track either side of the lifting section will be isolated from the common return elsewhere on the layout. John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Yes, good way of doing it. If it's not all on one common return, use the bolt to operate a relay, and use as many sets of contacts as necessary, wiring it via Normally Open contacts for fail-safe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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