The Night Mail

[AndyID]

Gordon Effing Bennett! (kindly pardon my French.)

 

The USA is pretty messed up but anything along the lines of the crepe that Tony is having to deal with would meet with the immediate transfer of funds to another bank. I think we actually have three checking accounts (that's USspeak for a current account) but we only really use one of them. (There's also a Royal Bank of Scotland account but we better not go into that.)

 

AndyID

[iL Dottore]

There have been some interesting comments about British Banking. At one time, British Bankers were the very model of probity, common sense and fiscal prudence. Not any longer, or so it would seem. My banking experiences, here in Switzerland, have been pretty straightforward with no problems in moving pension money around or opening or closing accounts.

 

As for “money laundering”, there are very many ways (apparently some of which may actually be legal) to make your ill gotten gains squeaky clean. A very good wheeze is to use cash-only businesses (such as takeaways) to turn dirty money into squeakyclean currency. Although from what very little I have read about such matters, the police and tax authorities generally do tend to get a bit suspicious when something like a small hole-in-the-wall fried chicken shop has £100,000 a month turnover. But the best way of all, again from what little I’ve read about the subject, is to bounce the money around the world from one bank to another and from one tax haven to another using various shell companies. 
 

Perhaps next time Aditi is interrogated about her pension from the Teachers Pension Fund, perhaps she should ask her interrogator “are you accusing the Teachers Pension Fund of being a money laundering organisation? You do know that is a slanderous insinuation“

 

Interestingly, I have read in some newspaper articles that London is now considered/claimed to be one of the money-laundering centres of the world.

 

The Swiss banking system, although accused of much malfeasance, is pretty much straightforward and above the board – although it does take advantage of every financial loophole other countries happen to (foolishly) leave open. I think the real problem various governments (such as the US government) have had with the Swiss banking system was/is Swiss Banking Secrecy.

 

I happen to think that the Swiss are absolutely spot-on: if Swiss law is being met, the origin of, and the identity of, the money/money owners is totally irrelevant to the Swiss bank and nobody’s else’s business. If (say) the Essex Mafia are earning money from dodgy O Gauge, laundering it through cash-only model shops then depositing it in Swiss bank accounts, it is a problem for the UK authorities to deal with in the UK and is not a problem for the Swiss Banks to manage.

 

There is, of course, the moral aspect to the above. But as we have seen in banking worldwide, morality and financial institutions very rarely go hand in hand: money (and I mean really serious money) tends to make its own rules and regulations and lives a very different life to that of the “spare change” (by banking standards) found in most peoples accounts.

 

One final thought: it is said that if you owe a bank £100,000 you are in trouble, but if you owe the bank £100 million – the bank is in trouble!

[pH]

In our back yard, or in the grounds of the school behind us, we’ve seen bears, deer, raccoons, coyotes, squirrels and moles. In the area there are also known to be cougars and bobcats, though we’ve not seen any of them.

[polybear]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I keep telling them I track the various funds available and they're all losing money and then ask why they are recommending that I invest in a fund which is declining in value? 

 

Bear is a great believer that Financial Institutions (or individuals) managing Stocks and Shares investments should ONLY be able to charge commission if the particular stock/share is making a profit - anything else is just taking the p1ss.  And no, they can't jack their fees up to compensate.

 

4 hours ago, BR60103 said:

We had our fifth Covid shots on Saturday. When we told nurse that we had not had any previous problems, she said to sit for five minutes, but not to drive for fifteen.

 

 

Bear had No.4 yesterday (Moderna Bivalent flavour this time) - in, out, Bear gone; no mention of driving etc. (maybe the growl I let out when she stuck the arrow in was off-putting - clumsy C0w).  I even got a card with the details on it to add to my collection.

[Happy Hippo]

Keeping with the current animal theme I am warning you all in good time.

 

The next World Hippo Day  is  Wednesday 15 February 2023.

 

In our house I have to keep quiet about it, as it's also someone elses birthday!

[AndyID]

1 minute ago, Happy Hippo said:

Keeping with the current animal theme I am warning you all in good time.

 

The next World Hippo Day  is  Wednesday 15 February 2023.

 

In our house I have to keep quiet about it, as it's also someone elses birthday!

 

Fear not! More than likely I'll be skiing down a hill in Colorado (assuming the old pins have not completely conked out.)

[TheQ]

Greenway, Smith and Greenways bank (of Warwick) went bust in 1887, this discussion reminds me of the Strawhead song of the event, sadly I can't find the lyrics nor an online version of the song..

 

I've only been questioned about money in the account once , which was when the endowment hit it.. They were actually more interested in me " investing " with them than anything else..

 

I've been investing in matters narrow gauge, and  trying to see what couplings they used on the real thing on a real short lived railway (14 years) from a couple of very poor photos.. it looks like Narrow gauge real railways had more different couplings than there are in OO!!!

[Happy Hippo]

Every so often I am given permission to post pictures in TNM from the RiSW Facebook group.

 

Here is the last of the Barry Ten, courtesy of Ian Hulatt.

 

The Barry Ten were the last ten locomotives left in the famous Barry scrapyard.

 

Shown here is the chassis and cab of 92245.

 

She was the only loco not to find a home and will remain like this to depict a loco in 'scrapyard condition'.

 

The boiler from '45', went to Crewe and is now used by fellow class member 92212.

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[Compound2632]

10 hours ago, Tony_S said:

Using the cat flap isn’t really “breaking in” though. 

 

10 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

It fit's Section 9 of the Theft Act quite well though, entering a building or part of a building with intent to steal .  However it could always claim legal immunity as it is a protected species.

 

But it is stated that the cat flap was damaged by the badger forcing its way through - surely that alters the case to breaking and entering?

[New Haven Neil]

For reasons I now forget, 'my' 9F is 92245, maybe she was on the S&D as I had a layout of that at one time many moons ago.  I actually thought she had been cut up, as IIRC one 9F was late in the life of the scrapyard.

[jjb1970]

I don't like the term loophole as it is a word legislators use to try and shift responsibility and opprobrium for their own decision making. Something is legally permitted or it is not legally permitted. If it is legally permitted it is because legislators have decided it to be so and people exercising their right to do whatever is under discussion are doing nothing wrong, legally (whether they are doing anything wrong morally/ethically could be a different matter). If legislators don't like it then they are empowered to propose and secure support to enact legislative amendments to make it legally non-permissible. Rather than do that they indulge in a deceitful charade in which they turn a blind eye to stuff they know is not particularly good but then whinge about the same, it is having their cake and eating it. I also think at a certain point complexity becomes a form of dishonesty, in most countries things like the tax code and government accounts are dreadful.

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, New Haven Neil said:

For reasons I now forget, 'my' 9F is 92245, maybe she was on the S&D as I had a layout of that at one time many moons ago.  I actually thought she had been cut up, as IIRC one 9F was late in the life of the scrapyard.

92085 (single chimney) was cut in 1980, along with 4156 and two (unique) diesels.  92232 was cut in about 1973 I think.  How do I memorise this stuff?

 

9 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I don't like the term loophole as it is a word legislators use to try and shift responsibility and opprobrium for their own decision making. Something is legally permitted or it is not legally permitted. If it is legally permitted it is because legislators have decided it to be so and people exercising their right to do whatever is under discussion are doing nothing wrong, legally (whether they are doing anything wrong morally/ethically could be a different matter). If legislators don't like it then they are empowered to propose and secure support to enact legislative amendments to make it legally non-permissible. Rather than do that they indulge in a deceitful charade in which they turn a blind eye to stuff they know is not particularly good but then whinge about the same, it is having their cake and eating it. I also think at a certain point complexity becomes a form of dishonesty, in most countries things like the tax code and government accounts are dreadful.

I understand the UK tax code is one of the longest and most complex in the world; IIRC about 1600 pages, or about four times the length of Germany's, which is probably why so much money (licit and otherwise) is sheltered here. 

 

I see the tax code as like the number line we were taught numbers with in childhood.  The code covers 1-100, but there are gaps between say, 8-13 and 27-44.  A new section to address the loophole fills 8-13 but the second only fills 29-36, so a further piece of legislation is passed to fill the remainder, but which actually only covers 38-43.  Instead of one tax rule with two known gaps, you now have four sections of tax code and four gaps.  The complexity makes it worth avoiding if you have serious wealth and hence the thriving UK industry of wealth and tax management.  No UK government is going to seriously simplify our tax code when there are so many earning a very good living from working round it.

[jjb1970]

I find it lives in the same pit of dislike in my mind as the obsession with politicians and governments to dream up more laws rather than implement the ones we already have. The overwhelming majority of accidents I am familiar with had causal factors already fully addressed by existing laws if those laws had been properly implemented yet in almost every case the apparent solution is to enact new laws. If government isn't going to apply the laws they already have why is making even more laws the answer?

[pH]

1 hour ago, New Haven Neil said:

For reasons I now forget, 'my' 9F is 92245, maybe she was on the S&D as I had a layout of that at one time many moons ago. 

Allocated to Bath for four months over the summer of 1962.

[iL Dottore]

44 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I don't like the term loophole as it is a word legislators use to try and shift responsibility and opprobrium for their own decision making. Something is legally permitted or it is not legally permitted. If it is legally permitted it is because legislators have decided it to be so and people exercising their right to do whatever is under discussion are doing nothing wrong, legally (whether they are doing anything wrong morally/ethically could be a different matter).....

I quite agree. In fact in a way, I pity those unfortunate actors/comedians/footballers/media personality who are accused of "Tax Avoidance" (and get pilloried for it). But, if truth be told, they aren't "avoiding" anything - they are just using legislation that states (in simplistic terms) "if you do X, then you don't have to pay Y tax"

 

Tax "evasion" is another matter entirely - the law states "on X you must pay Y tax" and the individual finds a way to not pay that tax - often using methods of questionable legality - if not outright illegality.

 

Actually, come to think of it, I've got the perfect wheeze to avoid paying taxes: you pay @Happy Hippo Inc. a sum of money to purchase and store cake for later resale, "unfortunately" to avoid spoilage HH has to consume said cake stocks - which are then valued (by HH) as being worth £2.50 on the Pound. You then claim losses of £250 on every £100 invested - which you get to write off against other taxes. Which would mean that for every £100 invested you get "tax relief" of £250....

[iL Dottore]

32 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

I find it lives in the same pit of dislike in my mind as the obsession with politicians and governments to dream up more laws rather than implement the ones we already have....

But, my dear Singaporean friend, what would politicians and governments do, if they couldn't spend their time making up ever more byzantine, baroque, labyrinthine and Kafkaesque laws to make our lives even more difficult (and keep themselves in Cream Buns at the same time)?

[Happy Hippo]

34 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

 

 

Actually, come to think of it, I've got the perfect wheeze to avoid paying taxes: you pay @Happy Hippo Inc. a sum of money to purchase and store cake for later resale, "unfortunately" to avoid spoilage HH has to consume said cake stocks - which are then valued (by HH) as being worth £2.50 on the Pound. You then claim losses of £250 on every £100 invested - which you get to write off against other taxes. Which would mean that for every £100 invested you get "tax relief" of £250....

And I get more rotund into the bagain.  A fat cat has nothing on me!

 

Of course I'd have to share consumption duties with PB  (Because he'd do the same for me).

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

And I get more rotund into the bagain.  A fat cat has nothing on me!

 

Of course I'd have to share consumption duties with PB  (Because he'd do the same for me).

 

Naturally I would, my fellow cake scoffin' buddy.  Any cake that Bear is incapable of scoffin' - or considered unworthy of a Bear's attention - will be despatched to The Muddy Hollow as a matter of urgency......

 

 

 

 

[Tony_S]

7 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

or “are you accusing the Teachers Pension Fund of being a money laundering organisation? Y

I did mention this when they responded to my Twitter complaint with the usual guff about needing to be aware of the source of deposits.

[simontaylor484]

Recently some of the shops on Oxford Street have been investigated by Westminster Council and The Met in particular those selling American sweets they found a lot of money laundering and counterfeit sweets.

 

The guy who worked for Tony's bank probably didn't even realize that until relatively recently you could only get a Mortgage from a Building Society and not a bank.

[simontaylor484]

5 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

I did mention this when they responded to my Twitter complaint with the usual guff about needing to be aware of the source of deposits.

They would have been able to see the originator of the deposits via the BACS payment system 

 

[bbishop]

I closed my bank account some 40 years ago, a combination of charges for every conseivable transaction (the attitude was that I was using their money) and disinterested staff.   My current account is with the Nationwide building society. 

 

Many years ago I opened an account with the National & Provincial building society, taken over by Abbey National and then Santander.  Both appalling organisations, except that I have a Santander ISA that has always done very well.  Bill

[woodenhead]

18 hours ago, Tony_S said:

It basically irritates me that people,like,us who have been on PAYE from local government or state organisations with no second jobs or mysterious income get grilled about our legitimate income from pensions while real money launderers and tax avoiders seem to manage. 
At first we couldn’t remember where the money for a savings account opened about 20 years ago had come from.It only has £110 in it at present (poor interest) but once it had more.  Then I remembered it was where the money from an endowment policy for house purchase had gone. We had paid off the mortgage as the endowment certainly wouldn’t have. The chap as I mentioned earlier didn’t know what an endowment mortgage was. 
 

When we last moved house we pooled our savings ready for paying stuff, we moved the funds to a joint savings account.  The wife had opened the account a week earlier but I couldn't attend that day so it was in her name only.  We felt it wise to make it joint for access so we popped into the bank to make it happen the following week.  I was made to feel like a criminal, was I putting the wife under duress to add my name and who was I - I had been with that bank since I was a nipper, I had actually worked for the bank for 20 years and all my salary was paid into the current account.

 

Needless to say, we moved to another bank the same week, better rates and better customer service (at the time!!!!!!).

 

The banks are very quick to jump on people for potential laundering, like grandma paying cash into a grandson's account as they are near the bank - oh no you cannot do that anymore.  However, a gold dealer paid in 266 Million pounds cash via holdalls and bags at a daily rate of 1.7m Pounds, no problem it seems.

[Winslow Boy]

I'm afraid it's the age old excuse of covering ones back***e. If the bank asks you and you lie them the bank can say well we asked and Mr & Mrs &£#"*: said it was the Teachers Benefit Fund. They don't have know if there is a TBF  or if it's an illegal front for an evil villain from Switzerland they just have to say they have asked. I believe it's called box ticking in more polite circumstances.

[simontaylor484]

I recall the Halifax caused a stir a few years ago when someone left a whiteboard out after a training session where it stated they didn't want change related businesses like taxi drivers and others opening accounts