The Night Mail

[iL Dottore]

8 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Flavio, you obviously weren't a schoolboy in Liverpool in the late 1950s/early 1960s. 

 

Nope, I was a skoolboy in London in the early 60s (and I don’t think I actually ventured north of Watford until I was well into my 30s).

 

What I do remember about the early 60s was how dire the food in Britain was at the time. Even the classic, much loved, British dishes like steak and kidney pudding, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding and so on were often badly cooked and/or were made of rather poor quality ingredients. I remember that when my maternal grandmother cooked roast beef for my grandfather it was very, VERY well done (and the long cooking time of the beef meant that she could boil the vegetables to death). Other than my mother’s cooking (more on that below), the one dish I do remember with great affection – and one I have sadly been unable to reproduce – was my Great Aunt’s bacon and onion suet pudding.

 

My mother (English-Irish) met my father (Italian, raised in Germany) in Italy, got married there and learned to cook from her Italian girlfriends when my parents were newlyweds in Rome. This meant that, back in Blighty, my mother would cook for my father all the dishes that he loved which in turn meant that my childhood foods Included such things as spaghetti alla carbonara, agnello “scotta-dito” wurstchen mit senf  and so on – all dishes that would not percolate into the general British public’s awareness until much much later (80s?)

 

An abiding memory is that of going up to London with my father to visit the various delicatessens in Soho to purchase food stuffs – such as Parmesan cheese, prosciutto di parma and olive oil – that were not readily available in the wilderness outside of London (where we lived back then). Depending on finances (I am now assuming) we would sometimes eat at a restaurant – often Topo Gigio – or have some German sausages with German mustard at Schmitd’s delicatessen. And my day out in London was nearly always completed by a visit to one of the small cinemas in London that showed back to back Warner Brother’s Looney Tunes cartoons (unfiltered and uncensored!).

 

Ironically, because at the time my father was at the very beginning of his career, money was very tight, so my mother couldn’t afford to buy tinned or packet food and so made everything from scratch using fresh ingredients; something now seen as very middle-class!

 

One final thought about the food of that period: it was about then that you started to have the first Chinese and Indian restaurants appear outside the major urban areas. I had an eccentric uncle (every child should have an eccentric uncle – a major psychological and financial resource!) who had disappeared to Hong Kong in 1965 for a year and a half; got himself a Chinese girlfriend and learnt Cantonese.

 

Back from his sojourn  in Hong Kong, my eccentric uncle decided to take my sister and I to the newly opened Chinese restaurant in our town. We go in, we sit down, the waiter comes over and my uncle proceeds to address him in (what to me appeared to be at the time) flawless Cantonese. It was, I have to say, one of the best Chinese meals I’ve ever had. I have no idea what he said to the waiter – probably something along the lines of “we would like some proper Cantonese food, not the rubbish you palm off on the locals”.

 

My, hasn’t the British culinary landscape changed since then? I suppose nowadays Liverpudlian skoolboys will be stuffing their barmcakes with jerk chicken or vegan bean patties or the like - not just chips…

[iL Dottore]

8 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Down 'ere the chippies flog chip rolls (small = round, or large = long) ready-buttered.  I guess us southern lot are way ahead in the culture stakes.

I nearly choked on my breakfast croissant and cappuccino when I read that!.

Thank you, my dear bear, for such an amusing start to the week

[iL Dottore]

5 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Food is possible the biggest part of Singaporean culture, people here are obsessed with food and arguments over the best hawker stalls for a particular dish can get quite animated.

The region is rich in food heritage and food from the region is justly famous. Interestingly most Singaporean people will tell you that the food is better either side in Malaysia and Indonesia. Malay, Indonesian and Peranakan food really is worth trying for those not familiar with it. One of the funny things is to tell a Malaysian how great Indonesian food is and wait for the reaction (ditto if you tell an Indonesian how great Malaysian food is). Both countries are always fighting over ownership of some of the famous dishes. There have been diplomatic incidents when one of them will enshrine something as a national dish. Singapore tends to just sit it out and enjoy the show, and because of the local politics Malaysia and Indonesia aren't bothered about fighting over ownership of a lot of the Peranakan food (it's too Chinese).

Whenever I have been in either Singapore or Malaysia, I have always eaten incredibly well. Your comment about searching out the best hawker stalls for any particular dish reminds me of when a Singaporean colleague took me out to lunch: it took about three hours as we went from this hawker stall to that hawker stall to obtain the best of this and the best of that.

Singapore was also the place where I first ate sea urchin and was introduced to Nonya cuisine.

 

(whilst on the topic of the famous dishes of Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia I am still trying to find the perfect Beef Rendang recipe. None of the recipes I have tried so far I’ve come anywhere near what I have eaten with great delight in Malaysia and Singapore)

[jjb1970]

9 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Whenever I have been in either Singapore or Malaysia, I have always eaten incredibly well. Your comment about searching out the best hawker stalls for any particular dish reminds me of when a Singaporean colleague took me out to lunch: it took about three hours as we went from this hawker stall to that hawker stall to obtain the best of this and the best of that.

Singapore was also the place where I first ate sea urchin and was introduced to Nonya cuisine.

 

(whilst on the topic of the famous dishes of Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia I am still trying to find the perfect Beef Rendang recipe. None of the recipes I have tried so far I’ve come anywhere near what I have eaten with great delight in Malaysia and Singapore)

 

Good rendang is to die for, if you are in Singapore again I recommend a restaurant in Tanjong Pagar called Blue Ginger. It's a peranakan restaurant and does good rendang among other dishes. I disagree with my wife on this one, she likes the Sumatran style in which it is a dry dish, it is like a thick coating around the beef but not a sauce, whereas I prefer the Malaysian style which is more like a conventional curry type dish with a rich gravy. Singapore tends to align with Malaysia but you can also get the Indonesian Sumatran style. Another famous dish from the area is laksa, for those not familiar laksa is a noodle dish usually but not always with shrimps or prawns served in a rich coconut based curry soup, done well it is tremendous. 

A dish which is hugely popular here is chicken rice, it looks bland as it is just chicken served on rice, but the rice is cooked in chicken stock and has a lovely delicate flavour if done well (locally the rice part is often described as greasy rice because it does have a sort of greasy feel from the stock).

[polybear]

6 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

That one came from:

 

https://smileyshack.wordpress.com/

 

 

 

Bear just had to try it....I wonder if the animation will work?

 

 

53 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

My, hasn’t the British culinary landscape changed since then? I suppose nowadays Liverpudlian skoolboys will be stuffing their barmcakes with jerk chicken or vegan bean patties or the like - not just chips…

 

Liverpool?  Let's not get too ambitious.  It'll be curry sauce on the chips.

[polybear]

Just now, polybear said:

 

Bear just had to try it....I wonder if the animation will work?

 

 

 

 

No....

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

Nope, I was a skoolboy in London in the early 60s (and I don’t think I actually ventured north of Watford until I was well into my 30s).

Yet no mention of that staple of a Londoner's diet at the time, going to the whelk stall or devouring jellied eels🤣

[iL Dottore]

25 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Yet no mention of that staple of a Londoner's diet at the time, going to the whelk stall or devouring jellied eels🤣

Now that you remind me, we did have the occasional treat of cockles, winkles, whelks, estuary shrimp (the little grey ones) and buttered brown bread. Never eels - not sure why, probably because one (or more) of the grown ups buying the seafood didn't like eels...

[PhilJ W]

42 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Now that you remind me, we did have the occasional treat of cockles, winkles, whelks, estuary shrimp (the little grey ones) and buttered brown bread. Never eels - not sure why, probably because one (or more) of the grown ups buying the seafood didn't like eels...

Mentioning seafood reminds me of when I was on holiday in Athens 45 years ago. There was a crowd of us exploring the back streets of the city when we came upon a Greek version of the greasy spoon cafe. It was in a semi basement and to enter we had to go down about 6 rather steep steps. In front of us was a row of containers bubbling away, fortunately the proprietor spoke some English and was able to describe what each pot contained. One of them was squid, which I tried and found it delicious. It was served up with some very fresh Greek bread.  The sauce contained tomatoes and olives amongst other ingredients.

[PhilJ W]

12 hours ago, polybear said:

Do we have some new emoji's?

 

8 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

That one came from:

https://smileyshack.wordpress.com/

If you scroll down the emoji's box a long way down to the bottom there you will find the emoji's. However they are inactive at the moment and display thus:- for example. Hopefully @Andy Y will be able when he is less busy to bring them into action.

 

[Dave Hunt]

I'm currently trying to deal with various utility companies about Dad's house being empty. I say trying because none of them appears to employ enough people to answer phone calls - "We are experiencing higher than usual........." A rough translation I suppose would be, "We can't be ar*ed to employ enough people as we are a bunch of money grabbing, tight fisted barstewards so you'll have to wait ages while we play this cr*p music.

 

Is this a rant?

 

Yes

 

Dave 

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

Is this a rant?

It is Monday morning, on a day when heat forecasts are encouraging people to stay home. Many more than usual, therefore, have time indoors to chase up utilities for poor service or whatever. 

[Northmoor]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Nope, I was a skoolboy in London in the early 60s (and I don’t think I actually ventured north of Watford until I was well into my 30s).

 

What I do remember about the early 60s was how dire the food in Britain was at the time. Even the classic, much loved, British dishes like steak and kidney pudding, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding and so on were often badly cooked and/or were made of rather poor quality ingredients. I remember that when my maternal grandmother cooked roast beef for my grandfather it was very, VERY well done (and the long cooking time of the beef meant that she could boil the vegetables to death). Other than my mother’s cooking (more on that below), the one dish I do remember with great affection – and one I have sadly been unable to reproduce – was my Great Aunt’s bacon and onion suet pudding.

 

My mother (English-Irish) met my father (Italian, raised in Germany) in Italy, got married there and learned to cook from her Italian girlfriends when my parents were newlyweds in Rome. This meant that, back in Blighty, my mother would cook for my father all the dishes that he loved which in turn meant that my childhood foods Included such things as spaghetti alla carbonara, agnello “scotta-dito” wurstchen mit senf  and so on – all dishes that would not percolate into the general British public’s awareness until much much later (80s?)

 

An abiding memory is that of going up to London with my father to visit the various delicatessens in Soho to purchase food stuffs – such as Parmesan cheese, prosciutto di parma and olive oil – that were not readily available in the wilderness outside of London (where we lived back then). Depending on finances (I am now assuming) we would sometimes eat at a restaurant – often Topo Gigio – or have some German sausages with German mustard at Schmitd’s delicatessen. And my day out in London was nearly always completed by a visit to one of the small cinemas in London that showed back to back Warner Brother’s Looney Tunes cartoons (unfiltered and uncensored!).

 

Ironically, because at the time my father was at the very beginning of his career, money was very tight, so my mother couldn’t afford to buy tinned or packet food and so made everything from scratch using fresh ingredients; something now seen as very middle-class!

 

One final thought about the food of that period: it was about then that you started to have the first Chinese and Indian restaurants appear outside the major urban areas. I had an eccentric uncle (every child should have an eccentric uncle – a major psychological and financial resource!) who had disappeared to Hong Kong in 1965 for a year and a half; got himself a Chinese girlfriend and learnt Cantonese.

 

Back from his sojourn  in Hong Kong, my eccentric uncle decided to take my sister and I to the newly opened Chinese restaurant in our town. We go in, we sit down, the waiter comes over and my uncle proceeds to address him in (what to me appeared to be at the time) flawless Cantonese. It was, I have to say, one of the best Chinese meals I’ve ever had. I have no idea what he said to the waiter – probably something along the lines of “we would like some proper Cantonese food, not the rubbish you palm off on the locals”.

 

My, hasn’t the British culinary landscape changed since then? I suppose nowadays Liverpudlian skoolboys will be stuffing their barmcakes with jerk chicken or vegan bean patties or the like - not just chips…

British cuisine long had a poor reputation and for good reason; there was some truly dreadful food being served in pubs and restaurants in the 1970s and 80s.  Remember when going to a Berni Inn was considered a bit of a luxury?  Pembrokeshire in the 70s/80s was a catering desert so we had nothing like that.  One of our local pubs became better known for its food but looking back it was pretty meagre and I remember our party waiting 45 minutes for the first course one evening; this wasn't unusual.  By the early 90s when I moved away there were some new places (mostly opened by incomers) who really raised the bar and some are now well-known outside Wales.

 

@Happy Hippomay find the "Dragon & Pearl" Chinese restaurant in Haverfordwest, which was the height of sophistication 40 years ago but which I've just discovered is still open after about 40 years, which considering the operating life of most restaurants, must say something. 

 

Re: "eating as the locals do"; we found visiting Hong Kong in the late 90s the local equivalent of McDonalds (can't remember the name), all plastic tables and disposable everything.  Menus in English and Chinese so you could just point and smile to order but you got freshly cooked Chinese food as good as any UK takeaway and it was cheap; not surprisingly they were busy with the young locals.

[br2975]

19 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

I quite agree whereas the English, especially with Itoje and Genge in the pack.........

 

Ah, sorry, I thought you were writing about rugby.

 

.

Sorry Dave, 

.

You're barking up the wrong tree there; not an egg-chaser (since a cruciate injury in 1974), wrong shaped ball.

.

Wouldn't wish to rub shoulders with the face painted, daffodil hat wearing, leak waving, beer fuelled event goers that part with £75+, just  to boo anthems, boo penalties, jeer at conversions , bob up and down to trot back and forth between their Princuipality Stadium seat and the bogs, missing most of the 80 minutes of torture; and who have priced the 'real' rugby fans out of the game.

.

In short, the WRU have sold out, are  not worthy of my recognition, and could learn much about marketing their 'product' from the FAW

.

"Our problems will start, when the English take rugby seriously" - the late, great, Carwyn James.

.

Rant over, soap box stowed.

Edited July 18, 2022 by br2975

[TheQ]

trying to work out when I first even saw a Chinese or Indan takeaway.. certainly not before 1975..

Edited July 18, 2022 by TheQ

[Gwiwer]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

What I do remember about the early 60s was how dire the food in Britain was at the time

 

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Whenever I have been in either Singapore or Malaysia, I have always eaten incredibly well

I agree with both the above statements whole-heartedly. 
 

Mother, who if she learned anything at all had learned it from her own mother, was no cook. Bacon wasn’t done until it was cremated; eggs had to be absolutely solid. Vegetables were raw until they had been boiled for at least twenty minutes. Even the humble slice of toast was done to a crisp frazzle and shattered if anything were spread upon it.  Her mother had been every bit as bad and disinterested in the kitchen.  Who else could possibly have opened a tin of Fray Bentos steak and kidney pie and cooked it until bone dry with blackened puff pastry???
 

Father later assumed most of the cooking duties after he was retired from the workforce by a redundancy at age 62. 
 

The impecuniosity enforced by student life saw me seek out some sort of respite from the takeaway food culture and the “chip roll” (as it was in London - butter was 5p extra as well) which was when I discovered the delights of Indian takeaway food. Working on the basis of where the community eats it must be good enough I quickly found more satisfaction in sag aloo than cod and chips. 

 

We haven’t ventured out of the airport in Singapore but when in transit have foubd its offerings to be quite superb. A humble-looking curry bar, of the sort you might pass by in search of well-known brand names, fed us both so well (in terms of flavours, variety and quantity) that we didn’t need the “plastic” meal the local airline offered in flight.  Not only was it cheap but they were, as Singaporeans are, unfailingly polite and scrupulously clean.  To top that as we finished we were offered more without charge. 
 

Meanwhile in a hot and sunny Untidy Kingdom the best on offer is far too often the coffee-chain snacks, sandwiches and - just possibly - LDC which occasionally turns up at Costa. 
 

Happy Days 

 

[iL Dottore]

43 minutes ago, TheQ said:

trying to work out when I first even saw a Chinese or Indan takeaway.. certainly not before 1975..

There was certainly one (Chinese Restaurant) in Romford about 1967 -1968. That was where my eccentric Uncle took us. It was near the station (in Victoria Road, if memory serves)

[newbryford]

On 17/07/2022 at 10:11, iL Dottore said:

 

I don’t think anyone would give any credence to a review about a model Great Western Railway tank engine by someone who knows absolutely nothing about the subject. And the same goes for other areas of criticism. Agreeing or not with the critic’s conclusions is another matter…

 

Who?

Me?

Don't they all look the same?

 

 

[TheQ]

just had a look up,, first Chinese stalls in the docklands in the 1880s, first proper Chinese restaurant 1908 near Piccadilly circus/

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, br2975 said:

 

.

Wouldn't wish to rub shoulders with the face painted, daffodil hat wearing, leak waving, beer fuelled event goers that part with £75+, just  to boo anthems, boo penalties, jeer at conversions , bob up and down to trot back and forth between their Princuipality Stadium seat and the bogs, missing most of the 80 minutes of torture; and who have priced the 'real' rugby fans out of the game.

Those reasons concur with my sentiments regarding home games for Wales.

 

I hope to go to Rome again next year, as we can combine the match with an early Iralian goliday (or even an Italian  holiday).  The advantage is the Welsh supportersthat attend the Rome game leave their ar*eholes back in the Valleys

 

Next rugby for me is the finals of the Commonwealth Games Rugby sevens in a fortnight's time.

[jjb1970]

One thing I have never got about Anglo-Indian food is why vada/vadai aren't popular in Britain. Vada are basically Indian savoury donuts, served hot and crispy, some of them can have quite a kick. There's a stall in the MRT station for my office that does brilliant vada, 3 pieces for $2, always hot and crispy and come with fresh chillies which simulate the temperature of the inside of the sun, not for the faint hearted but nice!

[Northmoor]

30 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Those reasons concur with my sentiments regarding home games for Wales.

 

I hope to go to Rome again next year, as we can combine the match with an early Iralian goliday (or even an Italian  holiday).  The advantage is the Welsh supportersthat attend the Rome game leave their ar*eholes back in the Valleys

 

Next rugby for me is the finals of the Commonwealth Games Rugby sevens in a fortnight's time.

My brother-in-law is a keen rugby fan and Scarlets* season ticket holder.  Not too many years ago he and my sister went to Rome to watch the Wales v Italy game; flights and two nights in a Rome hotel weren't much more than driving, parking and attending the Wales v England game.

 

*RIP Phil Bennett, one of the real greats of the game, my BiL met him a few times and found him always good for a chat.

[Happy Hippo]

I have just redressed my two damaged fingers.  It took longer than expected, but I was keen to make sure that they appeared clean before wrapping them back up.

 

i suppose this one now qualifies as the digital equivilent of Platform 9 3/4.🤣

 

Anyhow, meet my new friend who answers to the name of Stumpy.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[Winslow Boy]

14 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I have just redressed my two damaged fingers.  It took longer than expected, but I was keen to make sure that they appeared clean before wrapping them back up.

 

i suppose this one now qualifies as the digital equivilent of Platform 9 3/4.🤣

 

Anyhow, meet my new friend who answers to the name of Stumpy.

 

Ok I'll bite. If that's stumpy what's the other one called?

[Oldddudders]

According to my weather station, the shade temperature on my covered terrasse is 38.8 right now. I am indoors where it is 22.5. We may get a storm on Weds, which would be good - everywhere is parched, natch. 

 

Learning my lines for 'Allo 'Allo is proving possible. On our daily Zoom call Sherry reads the other role, so I can respond. I can do a French accent, of course, but it takes some doing while concentrating on getting the right words in the right order! My first acting role, in my 74th year, is informative about my abilities! Now, let's see "Who will buy a parrot or cockatoo from a poor old parrot and cockatoo seller?" "Would your girls like a cockatoo?"

 

Last Weds I broke a tooth, an upper molar. I have a long-booked visit to the dentist tomorrow, and keeping infection out of the tooth is an ongoing battle. There is some discomfort. I just hope he can deal in one visit, because next week I am gone to the UK for a month, and dentistry hardly exists there now, I know!.