The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

25 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

We all need to relax, this is a non-problem.  Litigation is like crime itself; your fear of it is much greater than your actual chances of being a victim.  In the same way as people who don't understand H&S try to make an activity safe by eliminating the activity, they remove the risk of litigation by eliminating the activity, not managing the risk.

 

We are not becoming a more litigious society and it's probably because in the UK we don't have the USA's legal tool of punitive damages, so there isn't a massive $$$$ for the lawyer (who is there for YOU, he says) to chase.  If No-win-no-fee litigation was a growth area, Claims4U or whatever they were called wouldn't have gone spectacularly bust; submitting spurious and false claims (e.g. photos of a different pavement from the one claimed to have been tripped on) certainly didn't help them either.

Pre ambulance chasers, my grandmother did sue and win a case and received a modest compensation off the local authority in Bristol back in the early 1970s.

 

She tripped and was injured on a paving stone that  was not secure and pivoted causing her to lose her footing and trip, sustaining a lot of bruising and facial injuries.

 

The case was won simply because this particular paving stone had been reported as dangerous over a six month period prior to my grandmother's accident, and the local authority had done nothing about it.

 

My grandmother was not a resident of Bristol and was on a day trip from Cardiff. (So it was unlikely that it was a deliberate cash for crash type claim.)

 

What a trip it turned out to be!

Edited June 5, 2022 by Happy Hippo

[br2975]

35 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

We all need to relax, this is a non-problem.  Litigation is like crime itself; your fear of it is much greater than your actual chances of being a victim.  In the same way as people who don't understand H&S try to make an activity safe by eliminating the activity, they remove the risk of litigation by eliminating the activity, not managing the risk.

.

UK society summed up to a 'T'

 

[Oldddudders]

DC versus DCC? DC served our hobby well for many decades and continues to do so. It is simple to install and relatively as cheap as a system might be. But it has limitations, and the more the modeller seeks to minimise those, the more complex the sectioning, switching and wiring of the layout becomes.

 

DCC can be relatively simple, or make max use of the clever bolt-ons that are now offered. Control of signals, points, turntables - and above all automation - beckon for those with the interest and the funds.  

 

I have now used DCC for 25 years, and find that while there is lots of wiring, almost all of it is simply ensuring every piece of rail has a wired connection - which is also quoted as best practice for DC layouts, actually. The advantages of DCC - which need to be real for the individual modeller to balance against its undoubted costs - are more realistic operational opportunities. The best example is double-heading of locos. Coupling and uncoupling of locos can take place on a DC layout, of course, but it requires precise placement of a switched section break during construction. With DCC uncoupling or coupling can take place anywhere. There is increased interest in MPD layouts in recent years, and these would be more difficult to design with DC, but of course many delight in sound as well, for which DCC is much more useful.

 

Layouts that are successful with DC, e.g. BLTs, will continue to be built and be just as successful. The more complex the design, however, the more DCC may be an advantage. Only cost then tells against it. 

[Gwiwer]

5 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

DCC can be seen as a way of making the hobby needlessly more expensive. 

There are things which can be done with DCC which cannot be done with DC.  And there are things which can be done better and / or more realistically with DCC than with DC.  It has been said that with DCC one drives the trains but with DC one drives the track.  

 

I am a subscriber to the "horses for courses" argument.  

 

I have seen (and indeed helped to operate) some superb DCC layouts.  I have received accolades from devout DCC enthusiasts for the superb operation of my large DC layout.  

 

Signals, lights and many other things can be controlled by DCC or from a conventional panel.  I am no computer nerd and have no interest in letting the computer do the driving and control.  I prefer a "real signalbox" feel where I rotate dials to move trains and pull little levers to change signals and points.  I cannot easily replicate some shunting moves but find a way to work around that. I don't need sounds in a small room despite the idea being "nice to have" and with an acknowledgment that DC sound might be a realistic future option if not as fully controllable as on DCC.  

 

No DCC operator or layout will ever be on the rough end of my tongue nor keyboard for their chosen method of operation.  We are at liberty to make those decisions and I respect them.  Just as I thank those who respect and support my decision to retain DC operation.  

 

It's a bit like vinyl records.  They almost died out when the digital revolution swept in.  After a brief and arguably unsuccessful flirtation with cassette tapes along came the CD.  Then the DVD.  Then the age of downloading and streaming meaning no actual physical item was owned.  Yet throughout these times vinyl has retained a following (largely but not exclusively among club DJs and fans of classical music) and has had something of a resurgence in popularity of late.  Just as DC has never been entirely supplanted and in some respects is making a bit of a come-back.  

[SM42]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

There was a Monty Python sketch about someone called Arthur “two sheds” Jackson.

Any resemblance?

 

Other than two sheds.

 

 

Not really 

 

 

Andy

[polybear]

3 hours ago, br2975 said:

 

At the Yorkshire Air Museum, there were several cockpits, set aside for 'Joe Public' to sit in, and fiddle about in - seperate from the main exhibits.

.

At the NRM I could find NO footplate or diesel cab to which the punters have access.

.

If the NRM are concerned about 'damage', I  fail to see what (further) damage 'little Jimmy' can cause to the iron, steel and copper backhead and controls of a steam loco that will never run again ?

.

 

 

Whilst not an identical example I do recall seeing a sign at the most excellent Tramway Museum at Crich asking members of the public to report anyone seen deliberately damaging exhibits - it seems that some of the little darlin's had taken to running coins etc. down the paintwork on the sides of the beautifully finished trams in the sheds.  B'sterds.  I'd wire 'em to the overhead, then to the tracks.

 

edit:  I hope when they are older some little scrote comes along and runs a key down their car.  Every panel, in fact.

Edited June 5, 2022 by polybear

[polybear]

4 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

The trouble is the imported (probably from the US) litigation where any act of gross stupidity will be reversed so it immediately becomes the fault of the owner of the attraction/museum/place of employment.

 

 

It seems India are catching onto the US litigation system:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-61424869

 

As regards DCC, the big attraction for this Bear would be sound - but the costs then start spiralling ever upwards; it also seems that for decent sound reproduction you really need 7mm locos, as 4mm don't seem to offer enough space for decent speakers.

[Northmoor]

37 minutes ago, polybear said:

It seems India are catching onto the US litigation system:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-61424869

 

What people claim in damages and what they receive, are usually very different figures!  The McDonalds coffee case gets more exaggerated with each retelling, but the actual amounts are smaller (and would have been smaller still if the company had simply accepted their clear wrong in the first place) and it's hard to argue that they didn't serve an unsafe product.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants 

[The White Rabbit]

9 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

... “Each to his own“ as they say, but being rather lazy (and having played with computers since the 1970s) I will go for the two wire approach of DCC. Having said that, with the miniaturisation of both batteries and motors and the proliferation of apps to do almost anything you want, it would be more than feasible to have battery powered locomotives that are controlled, wirelessly, by a smart phone app (or a console that uses Wi-Fi app technology).

 

But such a system is unlikely to appear any time soon; ...

 

Errr - I'm guessing you haven't seen https://www.protocab.com/welcome ?

 

Usual disclaimer. I ran into them at a Scalefour North show we were both trading at and was struck by their system because their ideas were very close to what I had thought of myself - the difference being they had the technical ability and determination to turn a concept into a working product. I'm keeping a very close eye on them and could be swopping over as soon as I get chance to actually run some trains... 

[SM42]

Alarms are sounding at SM42 Towers 

 

Mrs SM42 is on her way home and I haven't tidied up yet.

 

I've got about 6 hours, so I'd better get on with it

 

Andy

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

 

Errr - I'm guessing you haven't seen https://www.protocab.com/welcome ?

 

Usual disclaimer. I ran into them at a Scalefour North show we were both trading at and was struck by their system because their ideas were very close to what I had thought of myself - the difference being they had the technical ability and determination to turn a concept into a working product. I'm keeping a very close eye on them and could be swopping over as soon as I get chance to actually run some trains... 

I am somewhat lucky in my years in the railway hobby have enabled me to encompasses digital and analogue control. (7 and 4 mm scales respectively.)

 

Plus I have  a radio controlled live steamer as well as some manual versions.  Likewise I have both radio controlled and manual battery electric locos.

 

When I finally get around to finishing 'Crusty', I will also have a 7.25" gauge sit on petrol electric loco with Lister overtones.

 

All have their advantages and disadvantages but I accept these and enjoy them all for what they are.

[SM42]

The Eagle has landed 😱

 

Andy

[Happy Hippo]

15 minutes ago, SM42 said:

The Eagle has landed 😱

 

Andy

Nice knowing you Two sheds:

 

[AndyID]

8 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

The trouble is the imported (probably from the US) 

 

Well, at least it's not referred to as "the Nanny States of America". 

😁

[jamie92208]

12 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

“No Win No Fee” has a lot to answer for. Probably as HH says an import from the Untidy States of America it is also endemic in Australia. 
 

Ambulance-chasing lawyers intent on seeking redress for any injured party (and of course in the process lining their own pockets) have produced a risk-averse society. 
 

The question is where to draw the line. 
 

There are some events which are genuinely accidental and for which little or nothing could have been done by way of prevention. There is a very large grey area where better or different risk-mitigation could perhaps have given a different outcome. 
 

And who decides whether enough or the most appropriate measures were taken?  In part it is those lawyers who present their arguments in court. 
 

 

I believe that no win no fee was pushed through parliament against most public opinion. However at the time I saw a snippet somewhere that there were over 400 lawyers in Parliament. Whether this is true I know not.  Could there possibly be a connection.

 

Jamie

Edited June 5, 2022 by jamie92208

[simontaylor484]

Wasn't there a damages case against McDonald's re the lava hot apple pie fillings burning someone or is it it a false memory.

 

Wasn't no win no fee introduced as a "union bashing" attempt so workers didnt use the unions solicitors  

 

 

[br2975]

Celebrating this evening.

.

A feat with which I am unacquainted, having been but 2 years old when Wales last reached the World Cup Finals.

An event which emphasised the Football Association of Wales' incomptence back then, albeit we were dumped out of the compettion by some youngster who was tipped to be 'the next big thing' - I believe his name was Edson Orantes Do Nascimento.

.

Even if I was rich enough, or daft enough to consider travelling to Qatar this November / December, my principles would prevent it !

.

 

[PhilJ W]

49 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

Wasn't no win no fee introduced as a "union bashing" attempt so workers didn't use the unions solicitors  

Don't think so, The unions employed the solicitors and more often than not paid the solicitors fees on behalf of their members. The company usually employed by the trade unions was Thompson & Thompson who were specialists in employment law.

[simontaylor484]

3 minutes ago, br2975 said:

Celebrating this evening.

.

A feat with which I am unacquainted, having been but 2 years old when Wales last reached the World Cup Finals.

An event which emphasised the Football Association of Wales' incomptence back then, albeit we were dumped out of the compettion by some youngster who was tipped to be 'the next big thing' - I believe his name was Edson Orantes Do Nascimento.

.

Even if I was rich enough, or daft enough to consider travelling to Qatar this November / December, my principles would prevent it !

.

 

Aka Pele

 

I went to an air display at Elvington one of the most memorable events was a cavalcade of Harley Davidson biked the ground literally shook

[New Haven Neil]

Like several here I have used DCC for over 25 years - but one of the issues I think was it was 'oversold' in its abilities.  Yes you can work points and signals with it, but it takes ages.....easier to use conventional systems for those functions unless you are setting complex routes as macros.  What annoys me is people saying its so complicated, it isn't, but it can be if you want.  

 

But each to their own, there's no one true way.  

[AndyID]

40 minutes ago, simontaylor484 said:

 a cavalcade of Harley Davidson biked the ground literally shook

 

Most of the HD owners in these parts can shake the ground just walking down the street 😁

[Florence Locomotive Works]

Afternoon all,

 

 

Good news. Grandad and my aunt arrived safely last night, after nearly two days of flying. They seem to be adjusting well. 
 

More news: I’ve done some digging on ancestry.com regarding Arthur Ficke, the builder of my 4-4-2. The only one mentioned living in the UK in their archives was born in Worksop (deep in GNR land) in 1888, and I have yet to find a date of death or his occupation. We know he built the engine in 1950, so he would have been 62 if he did indeed build it. Will do some more research, it’s surprisingly interesting.

 

Douglas

 

[bbishop]

I've been missing for a few days, having spent Thursday to Saturday at Lord's, watching quite a lot of cricket.  Total cost £0.00 as travel is free on bank holidays.  A bit topsy turvy as the bowlers were dominating on a docile pitch.  We had a lot of custom, certainly on the three days I was there, although most of my patients were falls after close of play.  I'm back for a 20/20 on Thursday.  Bill

[SM42]

Well I think I got away with it.

 

Andy

[BR60103]

About 35 years ago we moved to a new (to us) office.  I was in when the telephone man was doing some wiring and he saw me collecting the previous company's wires. He asked if I was a model railroader. Then asked if I knew this new system that only needed two wires to the track.

This was a fellow who was hooking up hundreds of wires in the walls.

 

I realise that this was half of the Queen's reign ago.