The Night Mail

[Canal Digger]

12 hours ago, AndyID said:

I think I've finally cracked it 😄

 

Despite my career in digital electronics I'm not a big fan of DCC. DCC is great if you want to be the engine driver but for whatever reason I'd prefer the trains to respond to the signals.

 

It's really quite easy to make a DC controller that maintains speed by increasing track voltage to respond to changes in curvature, gradient etc. but the snag is it only works if the resistance between the controller, including the motor's resistance, is constant. Unfortunately rail has some resistance and fishplates etc only make it worse.

 

The idea is to determine the actual resistance of the circuit frequently enough to determine the motor's speed. Turns out that might not be so difficult. Small positive or negative changes in the supplied current will also result in a change in the applied voltage and from that it's not very difficult to determine the total resistance of the circuit. Good old Georg Ohm.

 

and Gustav Kirchhoff

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Obviously you took this literally, rather than as a rhetorical device.

 

Point is: those promoting and pushing policies (no matter where they are on the political spectrum) are, more often than not, those least affected by such policies.

In Leeds we used to say that there were no travellers sites in Allwoodley, or even all of Leeds north of the river. 

 

As to the cost inflation of public works is it down in part to the politically inspired introduction of compulsory competetiive tendering.  That only made the legal profession richer.  Oh sorry, I forgot that Parliament is full of legally qualified people. 

 

Jamie

Edited yesterday at 11:56 by jamie92208

[The White Rabbit]

15 minutes ago, Hroth said:

To be fair, setting aside his dress sense .... 

 

In our little [social] circle he's known as 'The Earl of Doncaster' - after the way Rowan Atkinson dressed up in an episode of the first Blackadder series. 

[SM42]

Approved suppliers is one of hhr biggest costs  all to make the accountant's job easier as less cheques to write and keep track of. 

 

Bottle of bleach, £1. 50 in the supermarket  £10.00 in the approved suppliers catalogue. 

 

It should be the other way round  

 

A catalogue of approved products ( to meet conpsny safety requirements and systems e.g  COSHH ) and a budget for each department head to spend on what they need from whereever they can get it at best price. 

 

Nothing in financial matters increases price like the words: business, insurance, government, wedding or funeral 

 

Andy

 

 

Edited yesterday at 12:18 by SM42

[jjb1970]

The worst example I can think of for an example of competitive tendering being a bad idea is the Astute hunter-killer submarine.

 

McKinsey, consultants on all things to governments and mega corps told the government everything should go to competitive tendering, and being McKinsey couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

VSEL, now BAE, we're and are the British company who know about submarines, but the contract went to Marconi. Who were to use VSEL to actually build the things. The cost overruns and delays were dreadful, not helped by an interruption in submarine orders meaning Barrow had lost a lot of its expertise despite the government knowing what an interruption would do.

 

Apparently Lord Weinstock said he only got involved as a favour to the MoD after having been assured VSEL/BAE would win.

[Willie Whizz]

Agree. I used to work for a Local Authority that had a system of “approved suppliers”, and it was common for items to be listed at double or treble the price for which they could be had from reputable local suppliers. 
 

Sometimes they could be had cheaper from the very same outlet  - more than once we noted that one “approved supplier” (of a handful) for office stationery, equipment and furniture was Staples, yet one could walk into their local store and see the same thing available for purchase over the counter for maybe half our internal catalogue figure. 
 

We tried to query this, but beyond the claim that it simplified the Authority’s financial payments and offered a degree of ‘quality assurance’, both of which were perhaps debatable,  no clear explanation of such a wide discrepancy was offered and we were discouraged from persisting and from “doing our own thing”. There was certainly no “saving” evident for the Council Taxpayer, and frankly there was a bad smell about the whole business, but without actual “evidence” what can you realistically do?

Edited yesterday at 12:43 by Willie Whizz

[jjb1970]

I got told off for using my company credit card to buy a spare part in electricity generation.

 

If I used the central purchasing system not only would the price have been massively higher but it would have taken days to process. I called the supplier and asked if they could stick it in a taxi and send it over? Yes, no problem, for about a fifth of the price.

 

I got told off, when I said sorry, won't happen again, I was taken to one side by a director and told to ignore all that ***** and do what I needed to do to keep the plant running.

 

Every hour was losing hundreds of thousands yet purchasing insisted it was cheaper to go via central purchasing. They never even denied prices were higher but insisted their system was cheaper. I also felt there was a bad smell about it. When a microswitch I could buy online for £40 was £250 via purchasing (and that is neither exageration nor untypical) despite being the same part from the same manufacturer something is wrong.

[DaveF]

I used to work for a local authority which acted as bookseller to schools.  You had to order textbooks from them, they only charged 10% above the price from a normal shop but they didn't charge for delivery.

 

Being new to the area I placed an order direct with a publisher and received a 30% discount.  I got told off but then other people started doing it.  In the end it became officially allowed.  We did the same for stationery a year or so later and saved a fortune.

 

David

[Happy Hippo]

2 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

But if by working a few extra hours she not only loses the benefits but has to pay tax and national insurance and would probably be worse off so what incentive is there?

One would think there should be a tapering off of the benefits  until the net take home pay exceeded the rate of benefit being claimed rather than an abrupt stop.

[Winslow Boy]

4 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

So he was retired permanently.

Young man I did say that other words were available instead of the word retired. You should not be afraid to say what you mean. This isn't the BBC you know.

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

The worst example I can think of for an example of competitive tendering being a bad idea is the Astute hunter-killer submarine.

 

McKinsey, consultants on all things to governments and mega corps told the government everything should go to competitive tendering, and being McKinsey couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

VSEL, now BAE, we're and are the British company who know about submarines, but the contract went to Marconi. Who were to use VSEL to actually build the things. The cost overruns and delays were dreadful, not helped by an interruption in submarine orders meaning Barrow had lost a lot of its expertise despite the government knowing what an interruption would do.

 

Apparently Lord Weinstock said he only got involved as a favour to the MoD after having been assured VSEL/BAE would win.

Samuel Pepys, when Secretary of the Navy in the 17th century noted that "I see that it is not possible for the King to get things done as cheaply as other men"

[PupCam]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

I got told off for using my company credit card to buy a spare part in electricity generation.

 

If I used the central purchasing system not only would the price have been massively higher but it would have taken days to process. I called the supplier and asked if they could stick it in a taxi and send it over? Yes, no problem, for about a fifth of the price.

 

I got told off, when I said sorry, won't happen again, I was taken to one side by a director and told to ignore all that ***** and do what I needed to do to keep the plant running.

 

Every hour was losing hundreds of thousands yet purchasing insisted it was cheaper to go via central purchasing. They never even denied prices were higher but insisted their system was cheaper. I also felt there was a bad smell about it. When a microswitch I could buy online for £40 was £250 via purchasing (and that is neither exageration nor untypical) despite being the same part from the same manufacturer something is wrong.

 

A story as old as time.    I could mention other similar instances but I won't.

 

 

[DenysW]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

They never even denied prices were higher but insisted their system was cheaper.

Back in the day (about 2000-2010) one non-corrupt fiddle in the water industry (i.e. it only benefited the shareholders, not the Directors) was that Framework prices were higher, but there was a discount that got paid directly to central funds, and did not get applied to the Scheme costs. The apologists for this system explained that arrangements like this counted as 'efficiency savings' which could go straight onto the bottom line, and the net cost to the customer was about the same. It was too murky for me to check this.

[Happy Hippo]

2 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

Young man I did say that other words were available instead of the word retired. You should not be afraid to say what you mean. This isn't the BBC you know.

Sorry....

 

Slotted.

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, PupCam said:

 

A story as old as time.    I could mention other similar instances but I won't.

 

 

 

Me too. One I will mention, though, was a straightforward aircraft electrical on/off switch that was about $3 from the manufacturer but $80 via MoD procurement.

 

Dave

[Northmoor]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Point is: those promoting and pushing policies (no matter where they are on the political spectrum) are, more often than not, those least affected by such policies.

I'd argue that the general public are equally as guilty of this when asking for the government to provide/pay for something, always with the assumption that someone else's taxes will increase to pay for it.  Politicians - or rather, their policy advisors - are quite adept at devising policies that will primarily impact people who were never going to vote for their party anyway.

[rockershovel]

42 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Me too. One I will mention, though, was a straightforward aircraft electrical on/off switch that was about $3 from the manufacturer but $80 via MoD procurement.

 

Dave

Well someone has to pay for the UFO kept underground at Area 51...

[Doncaster Green]

46 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Me too. One I will mention, though, was a straightforward aircraft electrical on/off switch that was about $3 from the manufacturer but $80 via MoD procurement.

 

Dave

But, did the $3 one have a 'Certificate of Airworthyness'!

 

John

[Northmoor]

6 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

But if by working a few extra hours she not only loses the benefits but has to pay tax and national insurance and would probably be worse off so what incentive is there?

The obvious reply to anyone who says they get more on benefits than working is, "Yes, but it's quite hard to earn overtime or a promotion when you're on benefits".

[SM42]

This morning morning spent 3 hours waiting for some minor works on the car to be done ( replace cracked binnacle screen, the YouTube video is 10 minutes long) updating the satnav and changing a dodgy sensor. 

 

After lunch I wax helping my brother put his railway shed back together after some water ingress. 

Somehow he has managed to mislay around 50 screws which hold the wall panels on the inside. 

 

More bizarre was one panel that would not fit back where it came from. 

 

It fouled the adjacent panel, the one above the door, 

 

As this was quite small we removed that thinking that any adjustment would require only altering a small panel rather than the larger one. 

 

Large panel in place, small one suddenly fitted. 

 

It was one of those doesn't make sense but sort of does scenarios.

 

At some point, we will get round to building a railway in there. 

 

Andy

[polybear]

6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I got told off for using my company credit card to buy a spare part in electricity generation.

 

If I used the central purchasing system not only would the price have been massively higher but it would have taken days to process. I called the supplier and asked if they could stick it in a taxi and send it over? Yes, no problem, for about a fifth of the price.

 

I got told off, when I said sorry, won't happen again, I was taken to one side by a director and told to ignore all that ***** and do what I needed to do to keep the plant running.

 

Every hour was losing hundreds of thousands yet purchasing insisted it was cheaper to go via central purchasing. They never even denied prices were higher but insisted their system was cheaper. I also felt there was a bad smell about it. When a microswitch I could buy online for £40 was £250 via purchasing (and that is neither exageration nor untypical) despite being the same part from the same manufacturer something is wrong.

 

5 hours ago, PupCam said:

 

A story as old as time.    I could mention other similar instances but I won't.

 

 

 

Bear will.....😁

 

How much for a pack of 9 mains fuses?  Well currently in Poundland that'll be, er, a quid to you, Sir....

And how much was a Certain Great Empire charging our glorious Gov. for them in the mid 1990's?  Six quid....for a single fuse......

The application for which they were destined? (but most likely wouldn't be required - let's face it, how often do you need to change a 13A Fuse?).  Test Equipment....

And around 2015 or so the unopened bag of a hundred (so £600's worth) went in the bin as the project was no longer in service.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by polybear

[AndyID]

11 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I'm only using DCC for a small isolated section of coal yard with a dedicated shunting loco.  I was converted to this after operating @bbishop 's German BLT at Warley one year.  The layout will always remain analog and is wired  two wire with feeds to every section of rail so as not to rely on fishplates.  The coal yard is now wired so that a main line loco can deposit wagons fir shunting then depart. Once the entry points return to normal a re, ay switches the coal yard feed to DCC and the shunting loco emerges from it's headhunt.  That is the theory, anyway. 

 

Jamie

 

I'm with you Jamie. If I do resort to DCC it will only be for shunting. I'd prefer to go all out and use radio control and a traction battery for shunting but that's a bit difficult in 00. Much easier in the larger scales.

[polybear]

7 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

We tried to query this, but beyond the claim that it simplified the Authority’s financial payments and offered a degree of ‘quality assurance’, both of which were perhaps debatable,  no clear explanation of such a wide discrepancy was offered and we were discouraged from persisting and from “doing our own thing”. There was certainly no “saving” evident for the Council Taxpayer, and frankly there was a bad smell about the whole business, but without actual “evidence” what can you realistically do?

 

Send a copy of the stores catalogue & prices to the Newspapers....

[Northmoor]

7 hours ago, SM42 said:

Approved suppliers is one of hhr biggest costs  all to make the accountant's job easier as less cheques to write and keep track of. 

 

Bottle of bleach, £1. 50 in the supermarket  £10.00 in the approved suppliers catalogue. 

 

It should be the other way round  

 

A catalogue of approved products ( to meet conpsny safety requirements and systems e.g  COSHH ) and a budget for each department head to spend on what they need from whereever they can get it at best price. 

 

Nothing in financial matters increases price like the words: business, insurance, government, wedding or funeral 

 

Andy

 

 

While the above is true for very common (i.e. consumables which can be bought in a supermarket) items, for IT equipment the above complaint is probably too simplistic.

 

I have worked in more than one company where staff complained that the laptop/tablet/whatever could be purchased for half the cost that the in-house IT support team would charge.  What those staff never accounted for was the supply and back-up included.  Yes you bought a warranty with the same item from Currys, but you'd either be going in your own time to buy the item/take the faulty item for repair (and those same people were strangely reluctant to do anything like that), or the company would be paying for you to do it at your hourly rate.  During that time you're not doing the (hopefully) productive role you're actually paid to do.

[Dave Hunt]

3 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

But, did the $3 one have a 'Certificate of Airworthyness'!

 

John

 

That was one of the reasons put forward for the price difference but since:

a. The production data for both was the same,

and:

b. The switches were for a simulator,

The reasoning was a load of drivel.

 

Dave