The Night Mail

[SM42]

Well there's a bonus 

 

Pick up now at Hopwood Park Services, not Leicester. 

 

Not so much a bonus for those based in Linc's though

 

 

Andy 

 

 

[jjb1970]

Just booked a trip to Shanghai on Thursday, I fly far too much and really would rather fly a lot less but in this case it's sweetened by flying in a Singapore Airlines A380 (there are much worse ways to travel than the good seats with SQ and especially their A380s) and I'm meeting one of my favourite academics and quite possibly the cleverest person I know which is always enjoyable.

[Tony_S]

48 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Not so much a bonus for those based in Linc's though

They are probably used to it. My friend lives in Colsterworth near Grantham and gets medical appointments at clinics in Skegness. 

[The White Rabbit]

3 hours ago, SM42 said:

I think the Internet is more of a cause of today's malaise. 

 

People can be angry, anonymously, at distance and with very little chance of consequence for their actions being visited  upon them. 

 

There is essentially carte blanche to say what you want, upset who you want and be generally unpleasant and get away with it. ... 

 

Cause or symptom? Either way, I'd agree it's a big factor. Likewise the rise of the career politician with negotiable principles. Which is more important/damaging? That's one I'd want to think about for a while. 

 

I sometimes wonder what Internet chat rooms and forums - including this one - would be like if everyone had a username which was first name and surname. (Perhaps with some adjustment for ethnic groups with different ways of giving their names). I'd guess it would help reduce some of the 'unpleasantness' and 'purple crayon' type responses. Says he sheltering behind a call sign which has nothing to do with my name...

 

However, sometimes anonymity can help, whether it's people discussing delicate medical concerns or private family or financial matters - or even with members of oppressed groups living in places where they may be persecuted for their beliefs. I'll keep this light hearted and say, "Like GWR modellers"! 

 

Simon. (Who is staying at home today and not going further than the back gate...). 

[Tony_S]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

degree at a Russell Group University

All the Russell Group universities I applied to rejected me! PPE would have been far too difficult for me to consider applying for anyway. I had no desire to run the country anyway.

 

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, bbishop said:

Jamie, Denis Healey was a beach master.  B

Yes  he was  but I sort of remember that he was involved in the advance towards Arnhem  during Market Garden.  However my forgettery (© Chrisf, may be in action. 

 

Jamie

[Flying Fox 34F]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

 

Self satisfying indignation has moved out of the on line world and into the real one as a tool to make a point or shut down another's  opinion. 

 

Funny this comment!  I recall this was a general management attitude for the last 30 years of my career.  It has obviously now permeated down to every level of society.

Performance related pay at Management level May have had an influence.  
 

Paul

[Oldddudders]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

I think the Internet is more of a cause of today's malaise. 

 

People can be angry, anonymously, at distance and with very little chance of consequence for their actions being visited  upon them. 

 

There is essentially carte blanche to say what you want, upset who you want and be generally unpleasant and get away with it. 

 

There is also, in the anonymous on line world the ability to influence. 

 

How easy is it to believe some comment dressed up as a fact? 

 

Pre Internet you were likely to be punched or arrested for saying some of the stuff that you see on line in  person.  

But following recent violent disturbances, I believe one or two people have had rather more than their collar felt for passing on inaccurate info in an inflammatory fashion. A reassuring trend. 

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

Yes  he was  but I sort of remember that he was involved in the advance towards Arnhem  during Market Garden.  However my forgettery (© Chrisf, may be in action. 

 

Jamie

Like many politicians of his generation, in WWII he actually lived and fought alongside the people he was later to represent as a politician.
 

Unlike so many of our current batch of fine, upstanding, politicians (no names, no pack drill), who sing songs of praise exulting the working man, but wouldn’t be caught dead being seen within 200 m of an authentic (i.e. real, unscripted, not-one-of-the-party-faithful) working class person… 

[polybear]

1 hour ago, The White Rabbit said:

Says he sheltering behind a call sign which has nothing to do with my name...

 

 

Don't worry - we all know it's Flopsie....

 

1 hour ago, Tony_S said:

All the Russell Group universities I applied to rejected me! 

 

Paws up all those who had to Google what a RGU is.....

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

I thought the Russell Group was a support organisation for Peeping Toms who hide in hedgerows.

[Hroth]

2 hours ago, Tony_S said:

All the Russell Group universities I applied to rejected me! PPE would have been far too difficult for me to consider applying for anyway. I had no desire to run the country anyway.

 

 

44 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Paws up all those who had to Google what a RGU is.....

 

 

 

I worked at, and studied at a RGU.

 

Didn't do me any good....

 

[Winslow Boy]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

In my final working days I recall going into one of those bespoke sandwich places. He was making up my order and i asked for black olives - but he'd only got green ones. I had to point out I hoped there was no racial discrimination going on - I have known some really nice black olives. 

I hope you took the knee.

[Winslow Boy]

21 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

 

I worked at, and studied at a RGU.

 

Didn't do me any good....

 

Yes you may have worked there but we don't expect you practice what you preached. A bit like politicians.

[Northmoor]

7 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Why mention this? Simply because when a few of us GCOGs get together, there is at least, 200+ years of collective wisdom, experience, knowledge and (dare I say it) “common sense” around the table quaffing beer. And, as is our wont, talk turns to what in our various pasts really was better than the equivalent today.

 

Are we being nostalgic? Not really, I think. Some things were indeed a lot better back then. Public transport (especially the railways – given that is the raison d'etre that brought us together in the first place) certainly was. People were a lot more polite, civilised, and – well, decent with each other. Perhaps it was because in the 50s and 60s Britain, along with Western Europe, had settled down into a modestly to fairly prosperous state of affairs, but with the scars from World War II still fresh we did our upmost to get along together.

 

Of course, there were many things, many injustices, to address in the 50s and 60s, not to mention the many criticisms of the powers that be,  but there wasn’t the sense that most everyone is permanently offended, most everyone is hypersensitive to the very smallest perceived “insult”, that most everyone has a gargantuan sense of entitled “me, me, me” selfishness and that there are topics You Are Not Allowed To Talk About. Something you cannot say about much of the Western World today.

 

If I were asked to pinpoint a single cause for the state of today’s malaise, I would unhesitatingly point to the rise of the “professional politician“. In other words, people who have never actually held a real job in the real world. In the 50s and 60s Politicians were – as they always seem to be – a mix of the very good, good, bad and indifferent; but they had all lived in the “real world“! Many had served with distinction in the Second World War - on both sides of the house; most of the labour politicians had done real jobs in industry before going into politics as had most conservative politicians, albeit  in very different areas than their opposition.

And most of them, much, much more than today, were politicians of conviction. You may not have agreed with them; their politics, their ideas or their convictions, but at least you knew what they stood for. So unlike the politicians of today, whose “firm principles” only last from one focus group meeting to another.

 

Today’s politicians, no matter on what side of the dispatch box they sit, are pretty much all the same: a PPE degree at a Russell Group University followed by a “job” in a “think tank“ or union sinecure before being parachuted into a safe seat, and elected to Parliament. And, as can be plainly seen today, although they may be singing different songs, they are all certainly singing in the same opera. The “group think“ created by getting a PPE at a Russell Group University permeating all sides of the political debate. 

A few points in response to the above (which I wouldn't entirely disagree with):

1. Everyone thinks they have common sense.  I have often heard people spout what they believe to be common sense, with opinions that (fortunately) aren't common and really make little or no sense if you actually think about what they've said.
2. Public transport, the railways at least and in general, are infinitely better than they were 60-70 years ago.  They can't be that bad considering the number of people using them and not always out of necessity.  Contrary to popular belief, severe delays were very common on major routes in steam days (especially at busy times like summer Saturdays).  Journeys were slow with often long waits for connections.  We might find it a lot less interesting, but that's not what railways are for.  As for the wider availability of PT, well, people stopped using it, so it went away....  The rail unions in the 1950s had a lot to answer for on that front.
3. This may be a personal impression more than fact, but watching the footage in a (cr@p Channel 5) programme about the 1970s - which I was born in - suggested that Britain had barely recovered from WW2 after 30 years and looked much the same. Move on another 30 years and the country is unrecognisable and in general a much better country to live in.
4. While people being "Cancelled" certainly happens, those that complain the loudest about "Not being allowed to say anything" are just learning that Freedom of Speech is not the right to say what you like, it is the right to challenge what someone else, usually in a more powerful position than yourself, has said, without repercussions.  That my children's generation do not accept racism, sexism and homophobia as just part of life and this country is something we should be massively proud of.
5. @SM42makes an excellent defence of the majority of politicians (probably 90% of MPs) who actually try to do a good job as a constituency MP.  The problem for them (and us) is that they don't make the news.  The ones who want to be "World King" suck all the attention from everyone else.  I would also say that your politician with conviction is someone else's dogmatic refusenik.  In the last few years we've seen more than a few whose focus still seems to be settling the political battles of 40+ years ago with a refusal to accept that the world and everyone else has moved on.

[Tony_S]

32 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

This may be a personal impression more than fact, but watching the footage in a (cr@p Channel 5) programme about the 1970s - which I was born in - suggested that Britain had barely recovered from WW2 after 30 years and looked much the same. Move on another 30 years and the country is unrecognisable and in general a much better country to live in.

I was born in the early 1950s I agree with you. Smog and cabbage smell, cold damp houses. There may be things I like , for instance old trains, but no nostalgia for daily life. 
 

 

32 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

That my children's generation do not accept racism, sexism and homophobia as just part of life and this country is something we should be massively proud of.

I agree those things are not as they were, but my son was born in 1992 and had quite blatant racist taunts ( from other children, ignored by staff) and religious intolerance from a couple of teachers at primary school. Institutions need to do,something just not write lovely policy documents. 

Totally otherwise  agree with your point 4

 

Edited August 12 by Tony_S

[jjb1970]

One enormous improvement over my life time has been the plight of people in what now seems to be called the 'global south'. The first time I visited the Peoples Republic of China that country was very poor and undeveloped. The Republic of China was more developed but rather oppressive. The Republic of Korea was pretty well developed but nothing like it is today. Indonesia was very poor outside of rich enclaves in cities like Jakarta. Vietnam was rather poor and still suffering from the war. These are not the only examples. All of them have improved hugely for the better for the most part. 

 

[Happy Hippo]

Did you know that using a heavy duty staple gun to attach critical cabling, stops your power and DCC main feed from pulling away from the baseboard?

 

This is an excellent idea.

 

Did you also know that if you misplace the stapler head,  when the stapler fires it will cut through all wires in the signal servo feed line?

 

This allows you to practice soldering tiny wires together!

Edited August 12 by Happy Hippo

[Hroth]

1 minute ago, Happy Hippo said:

Did you also know that if you misplace the stapler head,  when the stapler fires it will cut through all wires in the signal servo feed line?

 

This allows you to practice soldering tiny wires together!

 

Bet you only did that once....  🤔

 

[iL Dottore]

8 hours ago, Northmoor said:

A few points in response to the above (which I wouldn't entirely disagree with):

1. Everyone thinks they have common sense.  I have often heard people spout what they believe to be common sense, with opinions that (fortunately) aren't common and really make little or no sense if you actually think about what they've said.
2. Public transport, the railways at least and in general, are infinitely better than they were 60-70 years ago.  They can't be that bad considering the number of people using them and not always out of necessity.  Contrary to popular belief, severe delays were very common on major routes in steam days (especially at busy times like summer Saturdays).  Journeys were slow with often long waits for connections.  We might find it a lot less interesting, but that's not what railways are for.  As for the wider availability of PT, well, people stopped using it, so it went away....  The rail unions in the 1950s had a lot to answer for on that front.
3. This may be a personal impression more than fact, but watching the footage in a (cr@p Channel 5) programme about the 1970s - which I was born in - suggested that Britain had barely recovered from WW2 after 30 years and looked much the same. Move on another 30 years and the country is unrecognisable and in general a much better country to live in.
4. While people being "Cancelled" certainly happens, those that complain the loudest about "Not being allowed to say anything" are just learning that Freedom of Speech is not the right to say what you like, it is the right to challenge what someone else, usually in a more powerful position than yourself, has said, without repercussions.  That my children's generation do not accept racism, sexism and homophobia as just part of life and this country is something we should be massively proud of.
5. @SM42makes an excellent defence of the majority of politicians (probably 90% of MPs) who actually try to do a good job as a constituency MP.  The problem for them (and us) is that they don't make the news.  The ones who want to be "World King" suck all the attention from everyone else.  I would also say that your politician with conviction is someone else's dogmatic refusenik.  In the last few years we've seen more than a few whose focus still seems to be settling the political battles of 40+ years ago with a refusal to accept that the world and everyone else has moved on.

A most erudite and informative reply. A (partial) rebuttal if I may.

1. I would tend to (mostly agree) but when you've managed to survive for over half-a-century one must conclude a modicum of common sense has been acquired (like not using an electric hedge trimmer during a thunderstorm's downpour)
2. This point I will slightly disagree with. My recent railways journeys in the UK were pretty appalling - certainly very poor (on so many levels) when compared with SBB or JR. British Rail was very much like the little girl with the little curl right in the middle of her forehead "when it was good, it was very very good, when it was bad it was horrid". Having said that my experiences traveling from the wilds of Essex to London via Liverpool Street Station (or to Stratford and change to the Central Line) in the late 60s were invariably positive (however, I don't see ANY parent nowadays let their 11/12 year olds toddle off to London unaccompanied by an adult)
3. I think that this would have certainly depended upon social class (the great slum clearances started in the 40s/50s were still going on). Furthermore, the conveniences that modern Europe takes for granted (like longer opening times for shops) weren't present for anybody. Having said that, it was definitely true that by the late 60s Britain was falling behind Europe on many parameters. I recall moving from the UK to Italy and being utterly amazed that the first apartment my parents rented (an older apartment) had central heating. A luxury to the majority of Britons to the time.
4. One of the problems with public discourse nowadays, is not only the polarisation but also the expectation in certain quarters that you shouldn't be offended by anyone else's opinions. In a secular society with free speech, providing there is no incitement to criminal acts or to violence, anyone should be free to voice his/her opinion even if it offends others. Nor should there be any topic that is "off limits" for discussion. When you look at the start of the enlightenment, scientists exploring the world and making huge discoveries that resulted (sooner or later) in benefits for millions (think modern medicine) "offended" a lot of people (such as the clergy) with what they were doing and saying.
5. I'm not sure that I would say 90% of MPs (but I am a cynical old git) but certainly a very large number of MPs  are doing their very best to improve their lives of their constituents, despite a system that is almost designed to prevent them from doing that. Rory Stewart wrote a very honest book (and Guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/03/rory-stewart-why-i-quit-mp-government) where he describes the dysfunctional system he had to navigate.

 

Edited August 12 by iL Dottore
Missed a word

[Tony_S]

5 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

to attach critical cabling,

I like hot glue guns. My Bosch version can use low temperature glue sticks for delicate stuff like thin wire too. 

[SM42]

Rory Stewart, one of the MPs I had a lot of time  for. 

 

I was genuinely sorry to see him leave tne HoC even though I wouldn't necessarily vote for his politics. 

 

He struck me as someone trying to do his best, spoke eloquently  and despite his rather "posh" accent didn't seem to think he was better than anyone else or necessarily had all the answers.

 

Andy

[Northmoor]

16 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Rory Stewart, one of the MPs I had a lot of time  for. 

 

I was genuinely sorry to see him leave tne HoC even though I wouldn't necessarily vote for his politics. 

 

He struck me as someone trying to do his best, spoke eloquently  and despite his rather "posh" accent didn't seem to think he was better than anyone else or necessarily had all the answers.

 

Andy

Completely agree.  I always suggest that for undecided voters, reading the election candidates' career histories (if you can find them) is time well-spent.  Rory Stewart's is especially impressive.  Some like to refer to "successful businessman" without actually enlightening much on what the business was.  They could have run a manufacturing business or a consultancy employing dozens, or just has easily been a sole trader selling knock-off watches on Sunday markets.

 

As if the murder of two MPs wasn't horrific enough, the two visctims were far from greasy pole-climbers.  Jo Cox had already built respect across the Commons for her knowledge and experience of the charitable sector.  Admittedly after his death, David Amess was praised by people working for other parties in Southend for helping constituents with causes that his party (and indeed he personally) may not have entirely agreed with.

 

The point about Rory Stewart's voice reminds me how often I hear certain MPs that wear their regional accents like a uniform.  I may have been born in Cumbria and brought up in Wales (with relatives all over Britain) but I find "Professionally Northern*" people in all walks of life, quite irritating.  Being from the North of England does not automatically make you salt-of-the Earth.

 

*Jane McDonald, for example.

Edited August 12 by Northmoor
Extra paragraph

[iL Dottore]

6 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

The point about Rory Stewart's voice reminds me how often I hear certain MPs that wear their regional accents like a uniform.  I may have been born in Cumbria and brought up in Wales (with relatives all over Britain) but I find "Professionally Northern*" people in all walks of life, quite irritating.  Being from the North of England does not automatically make you salt-of-the Earth.

 

*Jane McDonald, for example.

It’s interesting to observe how “regional accents“ go through periods of fashion amongst the media and politicians. In the past, you’ve had “cheery cockney“, “Down to Earth ‘northern’“, trendy “mockney”, “mid-Atlantic” and not forgetting the Scots and the Welsh - whose regional accents featured very heavily amongst the supporting casts in many 40s, 50s and 60s films.

 

Then, of course, you have “Received Pronunciation” a.k.a. as it once was known as) “BBC English”

 

And (probably) the telling thing is whilst regional accents may go in and out of fashion, RP will always open doors and smooth the way for you. Being able to speak a good South London patois may get you a lot of “street cred”, but it is unlikely to open doors to the very powerful and influential.

 

Ironically, some of the best English speakers around are Dutch, Swiss, Germans and Scandinavian; simply because they’ve been taught proper grammar, how to compose a coherent sentence and proper pronunciation.

[Erichill16]

5 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

 

Ironically, some of the best English speakers around are Dutch, Swiss, Germans and Scandinavian; simply because they’ve been taught proper grammar, how to compose a coherent sentence and proper pronunciation.

Or Korean