The Night Mail

[Tony_S]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

On the way home we collected fish and chips and ate them in the garden and washed them down with some cider.

Sounds like a lovely day out. Well done to Nyda heading off a moan fest. 
We were on an excursion to Glasgow last week. Part of the day was to be spent at the Kelvingrove Museum. En-route, the guide was informed from some other earlier coaches they were stuck in traffic following an accident. The driver suggested doing our tour in reverse order and we arrived at the museum in the morning. Thanks to the driver we got extra time there rather than sitting in a traffic jam. We were told to be back at the coach for 12.45. After we had entered the museum the return time was changed to 1pm. The guide and the Cunard rep were circulating to let people know. However she missed four people who returned to the coach early, at 12.30 . So by the time the rest of us returned a couple of women were ready for an argument. They just kept going on about why hadn’t they been told about the change before they left the coach. I did interfere and said that the guide didn’t know until after we had left the coach. One of the women just kept on muttering her displeasure as we drove to the next sight of interest, and then continued to harangue the guide as we walked back from the cathedral. I interrupted her with a query about St Mungo. If you are in a coach trip to a big city, plans can alter.

 

Edited August 1 by Tony_S

[Winslow Boy]

1 hour ago, Craigw said:

 

Ahh yes, I can be outside gardening and there will be a bellow from the house because the Queen cannot work out how to do something. The scary bit is that I usually hear and come running.

That's not scary. That's knowing which side your breads buttered. It takes years of learning and practise to acquire such wisdom.

Edited August 1 by Winslow Boy

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[monkeysarefun]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I have a radical solution to all those bemoaning built-in speed limiters whose alarm you can't turn-off

 

DRIVE AT THE £$&*# SPEED LIMIT!!!

 

 

 

 

It used to get a bit annoying on the  three hour trips from Darwin down to the RAAF base at Katherine, the road was unlimited speed and if you went less than 130 (which is where Toyota hire cars speed alarms came on)  you'd get your back window completely filled up with the view of the bullbar of a 4-trailer road train sitting 3 inches from your bum.

 

In contrast Ford Falcons had a speed-limiter that killed the air and fuel management system at  180kmh (they had a one-piece tailshaft which risked detonating at higher speeds).  The first time I hired one of them I thought I'd blown the engine up when it kicked in!

 

For the ultimate fix though, Ford America have recently patented this:

 

Ford has patented new technology that uses onboard sensors that detect when a driver is speeding in one of its vehicles and then automatically shops you to the police.

In future, when you break the speed limit the Ford-developed tech is designed to automatically turn on the car’s camera to record your moment of unlawfulness and then send the footage, images, GPS location and other vehicle telemetry to the authorities.

It’s then up to nearby cops to decide whether or not to chase or pursue you later via the post with a hefty fine.

 

At no point is the driver informed that the authorities have been alerted, with your own vehicle a star witness for the prosecution.

Filed to the US Patent and Trademark Office under the ‘Systems and Methods for Detecting Speeding Violations’, Ford says the technology has been specifically created for the police force to help it manage its own huge fleet of vehicles.

However, concerns have been raised that it will have wider implications for everyday motorists.

The insurance industry, for example, might hand out lower insurance premiums to drivers who allow the tech to operate in their vehicles, or employers might require staff who drive for a living to have the technology fitted to their work vehicles.

The same system could also monitor driving styles and auto-report you for all manner of minor violations.

Ford has yet to officially comment on the patent, so it’s unclear whether the car-maker has already lined up a commercial application for the technology.

 

 

 

[Happy Hippo]

8 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

 

It used to get a bit annoying on the  three hour trips from Darwin down to the RAAF base at Katherine, the road was unlimited speed and if you went less than 130 (which is where Toyota hire cars speed alarms came on)  you'd get your back window completely filled up with the view of the bullbar of a 4-trailer road train sitting 3 inches from your bum.

 

In contrast Ford Falcons had a speed-limiter that killed the air and fuel management system at  180kmh (they had a one-piece tailshaft which risked detonating at higher speeds).  The first time I hired one of them I thought I'd blown the engine up when it kicked in!

 

For the ultimate fix though, Ford America have recently patented this:

 

Ford has patented new technology that uses onboard sensors that detect when a driver is speeding in one of its vehicles and then automatically shops you to the police.

In future, when you break the speed limit the Ford-developed tech is designed to automatically turn on the car’s camera to record your moment of unlawfulness and then send the footage, images, GPS location and other vehicle telemetry to the authorities.

It’s then up to nearby cops to decide whether or not to chase or pursue you later via the post with a hefty fine.

 

At no point is the driver informed that the authorities have been alerted, with your own vehicle a star witness for the prosecution.

Filed to the US Patent and Trademark Office under the ‘Systems and Methods for Detecting Speeding Violations’, Ford says the technology has been specifically created for the police force to help it manage its own huge fleet of vehicles.

However, concerns have been raised that it will have wider implications for everyday motorists.

The insurance industry, for example, might hand out lower insurance premiums to drivers who allow the tech to operate in their vehicles, or employers might require staff who drive for a living to have the technology fitted to their work vehicles.

The same system could also monitor driving styles and auto-report you for all manner of minor violations.

Ford has yet to officially comment on the patent, so it’s unclear whether the car-maker has already lined up a commercial application for the technology.

 

 

 

Ford have obviously decided that making cars is now a waste of time because with that sort of technology, who is going to buy a Ford?

[skipepsi]

2 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

That's not scary. That's knowing which side your breads buttered. It takes years of learning and practise to acquire such wisdom.

Still haven't got the memo.

[Craigw]

I went on a trip to the Northern Territory from Sydney a few years ago. My company vehicle (salary package and for business and personal use) is a Ford Mondeo Station wagon - turbo diesel. It was great to drive albeit with a bit of road noise (My new Mondeo is much better). Anyway, I was very keen to try out the open limit they had at the time and got to 205kph before the speed limiter in the front passenger seat kicked in. 

[monkeysarefun]

34 minutes ago, Craigw said:

I went on a trip to the Northern Territory from Sydney a few years ago. My company vehicle (salary package and for business and personal use) is a Ford Mondeo Station wagon - turbo diesel. It was great to drive albeit with a bit of road noise (My new Mondeo is much better). Anyway, I was very keen to try out the open limit they had at the time and got to 205kph before the speed limiter in the front passenger seat kicked in. 

 

The best car I ever got for the trip was a Mitsubishi Magna station wagon. Its 3.5L V6 was a great motor and it sat on a steady 32mpg equivalent despite doing between 180 and  200kmh the whole trip with the aircon on high.

  The only issue I had was that the wind noise from the large side-mirrors was pretty loud over 200kmh.

 

I liked it so much that I bought one for myself. 

 

 

[Flying Fox 34F]

Thirty odd years ago, I used to help out a friend with his 0-16.5 Narrow Gauge exhibition layout.

Mode of transport was a Bedford Rascal van.  I fully concur with the comments about a flimsy piece of tin between you and death, but also recall the snug fit of two men, in the front!  I swear the inside of an original Mini was more spacious?

 

Paul

[SM42]

Ford's biggest problem with its technology for speeding is that the car has to know where it is and the speed limit. 

 

The second part is harder. 

 

My satnav was convinced I was doing 70 through a 50 the other day ( the temporary limit no longer exisys) and this is not a rare event. 

 

Speed limits change, GPS can put you on a different road breifly that is parallel or passes over or under.

 

Sign cameras get confused and pick up signs for side roads.

 

If convictions are going to be based on dodgy tech, then there may be trouble ahead. 

 

One reason the human element is required in double checking the tech.

 

Andy

[iL Dottore]

6 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Ford has patented new technology that uses onboard sensors that detect when a driver is speeding in one of its vehicles and then automatically shops you to the police.

In future, when you break the speed limit the Ford-developed tech is designed to automatically turn on the car’s camera to record your moment of unlawfulness and then send the footage, images, GPS location and other vehicle telemetry to the authorities.

It’s then up to nearby cops to decide whether or not to chase or pursue you later via the post with a hefty fine.

 

At no point is the driver informed that the authorities have been alerted, with your own vehicle a star witness for the prosecution.

Filed to the US Patent and Trademark Office under the ‘Systems and Methods for Detecting Speeding Violations’, Ford says the technology has been specifically created for the police force to help it manage its own huge fleet of vehicles.

However, concerns have been raised that it will have wider implications for everyday motorists.

The insurance industry, for example, might hand out lower insurance premiums to drivers who allow the tech to operate in their vehicles, or employers might require staff who drive for a living to have the technology fitted to their work vehicles.

The same system could also monitor driving styles and auto-report you for all manner of minor violations.

Ford has yet to officially comment on the patent, so it’s unclear whether the car-maker has already lined up a commercial application for the technology.

Wow, Chimpey, does that have potential for abuse by the authorities (ahem, sorry) revenue enhancing opportunities for cash-strapped authorities.

 
What municipal authority and/or Police department wouldn’t like to significantly increase income from speeding violations without having to install expensive (and vulnerable) speed cameras or increase the number of traffic stops and then having to worry about what might turn up on the police cruiser dash-cam or officers’ body-cams.

 

And should Ford make an after-market easily-installable kit for the above, suitable for any vehicle, it won’t be long before insurance companies won’t insure you if your car doesn’t have one (or only at an exorbitant price) and the local legislature will make driving without one installed illegal.

 

I wonder what they’ll call it? The Ford Auto Nark perhaps? The Car Snitch?

 

6 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Ford have obviously decided that making cars is now a waste of time because with that sort of technology, who is going to buy a Ford?

Oh dear! I never thought that our resident pachyderm could be such a wild eyed, pollyanna-ish, optimist. Once the authorities and the insurance companies twig how much money such a system will bring them, it won’t be long before other manufacturers will have to either licence-in the Ford technology or develop their own.

 

I can just imagine seeing big signs at the state borders of cash-strapped states that read (more or less)

 

DRIVING A CAR WITHOUT AUTO-NARK IS ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF XXXXX

VIOLATORS WILL BE FINED $10,000 AND HAVE THEIR CARS CONFISCATED.

 

I don’t see many drivers in non-Auto Nark states, swapping their unequipped vehicles in favour of  a journey on US public transport to their destination in an Auto Nark state.

[iL Dottore]

33 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Ford's biggest problem with its technology for speeding is that the car has to know where it is and the speed limit. 

 

The second part is harder. 

 

My satnav was convinced I was doing 70 through a 50 the other day ( the temporary limit no longer exisys) and this is not a rare event. 

 

Speed limits change, GPS can put you on a different road breifly that is parallel or passes over or under.

 

Sign cameras get confused and pick up signs for side roads.

 

If convictions are going to be based on dodgy tech, then there may be trouble ahead. 

 

One reason the human element is required in double checking the tech.

 

Andy

Very good and very apt points, Andy. But that’s not going to stop the authorities when they realise what potential cash-cow they have in this technology.

 

Never underestimate the ability of the authorities to do something spectacularly stoopid and get away with it (prohibition being a very good example)

[Winslow Boy]

7 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Ford have obviously decided that making cars is now a waste of time because with that sort of technology, who is going to buy a Ford?

Sounds to me that Ford are covering all the bases in that if at some point in the future this is 'required' they'll be ahead of the game and be able to get some deltics if anyone else wants one - can't see the Orange One agreeing to this but who knows.

[iL Dottore]

11 hours ago, SM42 said:

I've just turned the TV on and have been reminded that 80 years ago today the Warsaw Uprising began. 

 

Sirens were sounded at 5pm. ( as they are every year)

 

We heard a siren on the car radio, but as the volume was right down at the time we mistook it for a fire engine that never materialised. 

 

Quite how we forgot about this can only be put down to the ongoing car trouble taking our attention. 

 

Polska Walczaca!

 

 

Andy

Stopping the Soviet Forces from advancing on Warsaw (the Soviets had reached the outskirts of Warsaw and the banks of parts of the Vistula when the uprising began) and then preventing any effective aid from aiding the insurgents (the RAF spared what they could and the Polish airforce in exile performed heroically) was a particularly cynical and despicable act from Stalin - the master of the cynical and despicable act - and done (like many other similar acts) to ensure post War Soviet hegemony in Eastern Europe (most countries of which had pro-democracy governments-in-exile in London.

 

This allowed the Germans, who had a mixture of infantry units of poor quality and a few high quality Panzer Divisions (39th Panzer Corps and 4th SS Panzer Corps) to turn their full attention to crushing the uprising with unprecedented savagery - letting the brutal (even by Nazi standards) “anti-partisan” formations Volksheer-Brigade Kaminski and the Dirlewanger Brigade unfettered freedom to “neutralise” the Polish forces. Adding to this was the pro-Soviet partisans spending as much time attacking tye pro-western partisans as they did the German forces (something seen across Eastern Europe).

I’m currently reading Jonathan Dimbleby’s book Endgame 1944 - the account of operation Bagration and the subsequent destruction of Nazi Germany and the Soviet occupation of Eastern Europe. As savage as the fighting was in Normandy and the Western front, that pales in comparison with the fighting on the Eastern Front.

 

One historian, speculating about feasible alternative historical outcomes, was of the opinion that had the D-Day landings failed, or the initial advance into Normandy been pushed back into the ocean by the Germans, Nazi Germany would still have been defeated by the Soviets with the war ending in either 1946 or 1947, with the iron curtain ending up in Calais .

[jjb1970]

My pet hate with modern cars is the obsession all manufacturers seem to have with touch screen interfaces.

 

I get it de-clutters the dash, and probably reduces costs but I find them distracting and a lot less ergonomic than dials and buttons.

 

You really can't improve on a rotary dial for things like air-conditioning and stereo volume, turn one way to make cold (or quiet), turn the other way to make hot (or loud).

 

I looked at the Tesla 3, in many ways I would have ranked it as the best car available (fantastic handling, brutal performance,  very practical,  comfortable and a bargain for what you got) but I hated the control interface. It doesn't even have a conventional speedometer. And keys were an optional extra.

[SM42]

The term unconditional surrender with regards to Germany, had it not been used, may also have changed the course of history. 

 

Imagine the combined forces of the Allies and what was left of Germany's forces turning east in 1945.

 

Unpalatable at the time given the sacrifices made, (maybe it would have been less so after the nuclear attacks on Japan but by then the die was cast) 

 

 What would Europe and indeed Russia have looked like politically afterwards had Stalin been pushed back and defeated?

 

It could be argued that US  and European forces did turn east eventually resulting in the Cold War, but by then much of Europe had gone from the frying pan to the fire.

 

Andy

Edited August 2 by SM42

[jjb1970]

Things like speeding regulations highlight the importance of metrology. I won't complain too much as it pays my salary but any regulator considering legislating threshold values really should understand what needs to be measured, how and basic concepts such as error and repeatability. Unfortunately few do. The one country in which regulators tend to know what they're doing is the USA. There may be stuff to criticise but the US EPA is very capable, in-house expertise and some brilliant people. 

[SM42]

7 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

My pet hate with modern cars is the obsession all manufacturers seem to have with touch screen interfaces.

 

I get it de-clutters the dash, and probably reduces costs but I find them distracting and a lot less ergonomic than dials and buttons.

 

You really can't improve on a rotary dial for things like air-conditioning and stereo volume, turn one way to make cold (or quiet), turn the other way to make hot (or loud).

 

I looked at the Tesla 3, in many ways I would have ranked it as the best car available (fantastic handling, brutal performance,  very practical,  comfortable and a bargain for what you got) but I hated the control interface. It doesn't even have a conventional speedometer. And keys were an optional extra.

 

Cheaper to make. That's what it is. 

 

Practicality and safety don't matter. 

 

The only real safety advance with this stuff has been to remove the ignition  lock out of the knee smashing zone should there be an accident.

 

I spent most of yesterday being distracted by bleeps because I was encroaching on the line at the edge of the road. 

Missing the 44t trucks coming the other way on a road barely wide enough for both of us was a more pressing concern for me.

 

I was half expecting the car to steer me towards them then beep before braking for me when it was too late anyway.

 

Andy

[jjb1970]

There were plenty of people in Western Europe who saw Herr H as a perhaps distasteful but useful chap precisely because they wanted him to destroy communism. The old comment that NATO was intended to keep the Soviets out, the Americans in and the Germans down probably has more truth to it than we might like to think.

[Tony_S]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

It doesn't even have a conventional speedometer

My car does have a conventional speedometer but I don’t look at it. There is a digital speed indicator between the conventional speedometer and tachometer. Also it is easy to set to metric units when on holiday outside the UK. 

[jjb1970]

1 minute ago, Tony_S said:

My car does have a conventional speedometer but I don’t look at it. There is a digital speed indicator between the conventional speedometer and tachometer. Also it is easy to set to metric units when on holiday outside the UK. 

 

I don't mind digital speedometer in ahead line of sight, on the Tesla 3 it's just another bit of info on the huge centre screen.

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon folks,

 

I have my Skoda Fabia set up so that the display between the speedo and rev counter has the speed showing.

 

I know there is an analogue speedo but I find the digital readout clearer, and a better use of the display than mpg or the other options like miles left to refill, etc.

Given that it is inline of sight it is a useful function to me.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

 

 

[Tony_S]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I don't mind digital speedometer in ahead line of sight, on the Tesla 3 it's just another bit of info on the huge centre screen.

I don’t think I would like that. 

[SM42]

Now I like moving needles on my speedo rather than a digital readout. 

 

I find it more intuitive to see which way my speed is going. 

 

Andy

[jjb1970]

I remember traditional control rooms in ships engine rooms and power stations, with hundreds of analogue gauges showing all sorts of parameters and various other indicators such as manometer tank level gauges. Once you were familiar with the plant you didn't have to really look at any of the gauges as you just had to look over them as anything abnormal stood out and would be noticed. Modern control rooms are like offices and everything is on work stations. The operators have access to far more information which is great, but there was something to be said for the old style too. The optimum was the transition when they put modern computer based platform management systems into traditional control rooms so operators had both.

 

Not all new information displays are better. They're replacing the onboard MRT train displays here with fancy screens which show all sorts of info (and a lot of advertising) but the old system is perfect. It just used lights on a map of the line, one glance tells you everything, where the train is, which station you're at, next station etc, much better than the replacement which requires you to read it and wait as it scrolls through various screens.