The Night Mail

[TheQ]

Someone decided we were earning too much overtime out on field service, so tried to end it by it by saying we could only travel out of hours in extreme circumstances..

What they forgot as we were most junior, a nights hotel bill, plus the extra meals exceeded the overtime for travel even for the nearest RAF site.

As for travelling to from MK to Leuchars, carrying equipment and or documentation which was secret for 4 /12 days on site work you couldn't do that without overtime or a huge increase in bills, as they couldn't stop us returning home at weekends without paying overtime.

 

As for air travel,

I remember Gatwick taking out hundreds of seats to put in more shops, so you ended up with thousands of people sat on suitcases or the floor..

 

 the airports in Saudi were terrible, they may be all marble and beautifully designed, but after that any idea of maintenance seemed to be abandoned. Saudis themselves have no idea of queuing, if a desk opened it would be surrounded by Saudis 10 deep, often trying to bargain to get 10 suitcases onboard for nothing.

 

Mooring Awl,

Couldn't get to sleep, eventually came down, had some pink pills, and got some very intermittent sleep...

 

Some one almost missed their target, the only good thing about it is it stops talk of an event later on today being on TV continuously.

 

As for a later event, I'm intending to sail in circles on Black Horse  Broad, for a good part of the day, just hope the drizzle holds off.

 

Time for breaky.

[PMP]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

 

 

Although a very frequent flyer at one point, I’m a bit out of touch with airline travel nowadays. But I wonder if what I noted back then - that airlines prioritising passenger experience had the most modern aircraft and were always full, whilst those airlines prioritising profit had older aircraft and were often half full - still holds true?

The lo-cost revolution has had massive impacts on how airlines and airports are run.

As far as profit driven airlines go there isn’t that sort of distinction as such, for example the lo-cost carrier fleet age is around 8 years. BA is around 15years. The lo-co’s have a faster turnover as their operations are far more intense, more cycles for airframes, rotable and consumable components. It is also easier on maintenance as you rarely get ageing fleet issues, and as technology improves,  generally, so does ease of maintenance and reliability.

 

The lo-cost revolution has also impacted airports. Most were designed in an era with far far fewer passengers in mind, but the continued expansion, affordability and convenience of air travel has meant that the design capacity is often at maximum or exceeded.
There isn’t an easy answer to that, planners and communities aren’t keen on expanding the footprint of airports especially in the EU/uk. This means that improvements have to be done within the existing framework with the consequential disruption that entails. Very few people have the slightest imagination about how effective even the ‘inefficient’ airports are at moving passengers through the facilities they’re using. There’s also the cost/value equation. Airports are expensive facilities to operate and maintain. While passengers may want lovely spacious facilities, they certainly aren’t prepared to pay for them through increased fares. Mr and Mrs Smith are happy paying £100 each way, Gatwick to Barcelona, but never consider how that £100 actually gets divvied up once it’s in the till. Think about all the comments you see, 😦 Marjory paid £20 quid for her ticket, and then had to pay for her bags as well! So she paid the equivalent of three pints in central London for her ticket, and her bags should go free?…

 

Airport retail and food is a massive income generator for an airport, usually one of the highest value streams. So you keep pax grazing in both retail/food outlets to generate that ‘captive’ audience. That’s why premium lounges are popular with airlines, airports, and most importantly the passengers.

[polybear]

11 hours ago, Flanged Wheel said:

If that sport still exists, then this gentlemen probably ought to be representing us in the Olympics…

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/03/civil-servant-who-lost-mod-files-at-a-bus-stop-was-to-be-uks-ambassador-to-nato
 

It’s worth noting that if he had been a serving military officer, then he almost certainly would have faced a court martial.

 

He still seems to be doing ok, amazingly:

 

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/who_is_who_206920.htm

 

9 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

Post -Trump Maralago documents  scandal, does anyone even need to care about security anymore?

 

The US  government doesn't seem to - he's about to be made privvy to security briefings once   his official nomination as presidential candidate is confirmed. 

 

I very much suspect the current team can't do anything about it.

 

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Having woken up to the latest news from the USA, I have a sneaking feeling that somebody responsible for security cover, did not carry out an appropriate risk assessment.

 

 

 

Just one word from Bear:

 

Bvgger.

 

I'll let you guess the rest - it shouldn't be hard.....

Edited July 14 by polybear

[Happy Hippo]

27 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

 

 

Bvgger.

 

I'll let you guess the rest - it shouldn't be hard.....

That is not what the family of the innocent bystander who ended up shot dead are saying right now.

 

[Winslow Boy]

The really unfortunate thing about this, apart that is for the people killed and injured of course, is that it'll be used to fuel more hatred on both sides.

[Craigw]

22 hours ago, SM42 said:

I've just been visited by a religious group, who in a change from normal practice on such visits  left a leaflet and info about a special event in  Telford. 

 

 

 

When Covid was more of a thing I was visited by some Jehovahs when I was not in a mood to talk. I wrote on a piece of paper and held it up.......   Covid!,.

 

I came out to check the mail later and found one of their usual "letters from God" and a handwritten note thanking me for telling them I had Covid.

 

Craig W

[polybear]

14 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

That is not what the family of the innocent bystander who ended up shot dead are saying right now.

 

 

Agreed - VSBT's to them, naturally; it's always tragic when innocent bystanders get caught up in such actions.

Incidentally, actually placing people behind the ex-POTUS/POTUS/Celebrity/Whoever can never be a good idea (whatever Bozo thought it would be?) as it places them directly in a likely firing line.  I'm amazed that The Orange One isn't/wasn't protected by a bulletproof screen at such events.

[jjb1970]

On low cost airlines, my experience is primarily in Asia, but I have had little to complain about. I have used Vietjet Singapore-Vietnam and domestically within Vietnam, and Air Asia, Citilink and Jetstar Asia Singapore-Indonesia and within Indonesia quite a bit and have had little to complain about. Yes it is basic no frills transportation but the flights have always been reasonably punctual, spotlessly clean and have used the same airports and terminals as full service alternatives.

 

The awful experiences I have had in recent years have been arriving with full service carriers off long haul flights into terminals primarily used by full service carriers. The common denominator is woefully inadequate provision of immigration officers. Recent arrivals into FRA, BRU and CPH all found two officers on duty with plenty of empty booths. At CPH it was even worse leaving.

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, PMP said:

While passengers may want lovely spacious facilities, they certainly aren’t prepared to pay for them through increased fares. Mr and Mrs Smith are happy paying £100 each way, Gatwick to Barcelona, but never consider how that £100 actually gets divvied up once it’s in the till. Think about all the comments you see, 😦 Marjory paid £20 quid for her ticket, and then had to pay for her bags as well! So she paid the equivalent of three pints in central London for her ticket, and her bags should go free?….

From various sources I’ve read it would appear that if aviation fuel was taxed the same way as other fuels, the low cost carriers would (mostly) disappear overnight. Of course, only using one type of aircraft, using obscure and second tier airports wherever possible, using stairs instead of jet bridges, being parked further away from the terminal, having a “pay for your seat, everything else is extra” ticketing system, minimal grand handling and support, all bring significant savings to the operator - but without fuel subsidies (which is what tax exempt commercial aviation fuel has) ticket prices would go up.  According to Wiki, “In the UK, aviation got £9 billion tax free benefits in 2003” - so God knows what they get now.

 

So we, as tax payers, are subsidising booze-fueled stag and hen-dos to (unlucky) cities like Prague, Amsterdam and Ghent. Who be extremely happy if they never saw a squeezey-jet or O’Leary Air ever again.

 

I reckon that were aviation fuel taxed, the ones least affected (in terms of ticket pricing) would be business class and first class passengers.

[Happy Hippo]

35 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Agreed - VSBT's to them, naturally; it's always tragic when innocent bystanders get caught up in such actions.

Incidentally, actually placing people behind the ex-POTUS/POTUS/Celebrity/Whoever can never be a good idea (whatever Bozo thought it would be?) as it places them directly in a likely firing line.  I'm amazed that The Orange One isn't/wasn't protected by a bulletproof screen at such events.

Some years back I attended a security briefing and the various problems that the protection details face are immense.

 

There are those who need protecting whom are quite adamant in their refusal to go for the 100% safe option.  It completely isolates the individual from their audience, which they perceive as very bad for their image and their relationship with both supporters and the media.  You only have to look at Royal Family walkarounds:  Not only do they increase the perceived risk to that individual or group, but also has a knock on effect with scheduling.  Too often, you end up with the person you are supposed to be protecting deciding to have a long chat with a couple of people in the crowd, which puts them at stationary in an exposed position.  This can have serious effects on the rolling security plan, so the planners are having to rapidly change certain arrangements.

 

Worst is where you have someone in the air who has to divert, or the event is cancelled at short notice, say due to a sudden change in weather, and they move on to their next appearance well ahead of schedule.  They will not appear ahead of schedule, which means they have to be entertained in a secure location until they can be moved.

 

It all sounds very dramatic, but those involved in these sort of security cover (at least in the UK) are well versed in planning on the hoof.

 

However, the biggest problem facing any security planners, is the lone wolf type attack.  There is no means of gathering any useful information which might prevent such an occurrence.

 

You only have to see how many 'organised' attempts have been foiled before they have taken place, because, someone, somewhere, leaks information: Sometimes I'm sure it is deliberate, but usually it's accidental.

 

 

[jjb1970]

I remember transferring in Abu Dhabi once and finding it rather amusing that it seemed easier to spend $20,000 on a watch or several thousand dollars on a hand bag than to buy a bottle of cold water.

[BMS]

Re Smart Motorways.

I understand that they have been stopped being installed.

However I've come across a number of locations where the hard shoulder has been closed off while the signs say the equivalent of "we are creating more safety refuges"

Is this the same thing under a different identity? Presumably a Sir Humphrey idea from Yes Minister.

[Happy Hippo]

42 minutes ago, BMS said:

Re Smart Motorways.

I understand that they have been stopped being installed.

However I've come across a number of locations where the hard shoulder has been closed off while the signs say the equivalent of "we are creating more safety refuges"

Is this the same thing under a different identity? Presumably a Sir Humphrey idea from Yes Minister.

From what I perceive, where the smart motorway construction has been stopped mid phase it will result in the 'new' lane 1 reverting back to a hard shoulder.

 

If you desperately need more Motorway capacity, then double deck them, with the top deck having limited exit/entries:  Imagine the M25 with a top deck which only joins with other motorways.  The motorists who use the M25 for one or two junctions can wait in the low level and darkened traffic jam, in what would be the increased M25 hell for the truly deserving.🤣

[br2975]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

 

It all sounds very dramatic, but those involved in these sort of security cover (at least in the UK) are well versed in planning on the hoof.

 

However, the biggest problem facing any security planners, is the lone wolf type attack.  There is no means of gathering any useful information which might prevent such an occurrence.

 

.

This year's extra-curricula activity for the grandsons, whilst at  Royal Ascot, was to spot the protection officers.

.

 

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

As for Euro airports: I only use LHR only if I have NO other choice (usually as a transit passenger),

Heathrow (aka Thiefrow) and to a slightly lesser extent, Gatwick, are not airports.  They are shopping centres where aeroplanes land in what you would expect to be the car park.

 

I can't remember which of the two it is, but it couldn't be made more clear where their priority lies - getting people to linger for shopping over getting people onto their planes and on their way - when you exit security and the marked route for heading to the departure lounge takes you not past the Duty Free shop, but through it.

[polybear]

1 minute ago, Northmoor said:

.........and the marked route for heading to the departure lounge takes you not past the Duty Free shop, but through it.

 

In which many of the prices are "somewhat more expensive" than those available on the 'net.

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon Northmoor,

 

EMA is, or certainly was, exactly the same.

 

You have to dodge through the duty free shops to get to the food/drink outlets and departure areas.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[polybear]

The thing that worried me when returning to LGW from Lisbon a couple of weeks back (at a bit past 8pm on a Monday night) was that the Red Customs Channel was CLOSED - as in blocked off with a desk.  As for staff in the Green Channel - zero, zilch, diddlysquat....

[jjb1970]

The practice of making people walk through duty free seems to be increasingly the norm, it's getting to a point where it's nice to use an airport that doesn't do it.

[rockershovel]

16 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The practice of making people walk through duty free seems to be increasingly the norm, it's getting to a point where it's nice to use an airport that doesn't do it.

I passed through Stansted a while ago. Its once sweeping open halls are now a congested tat-fest.

[jjb1970]

24 minutes ago, polybear said:

The thing that worried me when returning to LGW from Lisbon a couple of weeks back (at a bit past 8pm on a Monday night) was that the Red Customs Channel was CLOSED - as in blocked off with a desk.  As for staff in the Green Channel - zero, zilch, diddlysquat....

 

Does Lisbon still have a tin shed for LCCs like Easyjet? A few years ago I flew there with Easyjet when I worked for LR and it really was a glorified tin shed next to the real terminal. 

 

Bremen was even worse. I don't like airports as over priced tat malls but equally it's nice to be able to get a soft drink and a sandwich or something if there's a delay.

 

LR was a bit tight in that if it was fee earning work  I got business class because the client paid but for non fee earning work it was whatever was cheapest.

[SM42]

What I remember most about Lisbon Airport was feeling like we were on a  bus replacement service, so far was it from the terminal to the aeroplane. 

 

Andy

[polybear]

Lisbon was fine - and no sign of a shed (and I was on Trumpair - I do draw the line at going Buddy Holly Airways though cos' I HATE their little Tw@t of a CEO)

[br2975]

Duty Free - another place where I become objectionable.

.

W.H.Smith at Bristol are usually a source of a railway magazine or two for mid-air consumption                                                                                                                                                                                              (if I buy a magazine before that, I'm highly likely to read it)

.

Invariably I'm asked for my boarding pass, having bought Railway Magazine or Steam World.

.

No, is my usual retort - as the magazines are the same price as in the High Street, so if there were to be any recovered tax, it will  go in W.H.Smith's account, not my pocket.

.

 

[Happy Hippo]

4 hours ago, br2975 said:

.

This year's extra-curricula activity for the grandsons, whilst at  Royal Ascot, was to spot the protection officers.

 

Did they spot these two?

 

Sgt Gaylord Savage and Lcpl Horace Buckle of the Close Observation Platoon 1st Bn The Queen's Regiment.