The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

I’ve just realised that I forgot to wish the Canal Diggers a very happy anniversary so belated congratulations are now given. Pardon my forgettery (copyright Chrisf).

 

Dave

[iL Dottore]

1 minute ago, Dave Hunt said:

I’ve just realised that I forgot to wish the Canal Diggers a very happy anniversary so belated congratulations are now given. Pardon my forgettery (copyright Chrisf).

 

Dave

Oops!

I overlooked it as well 🙁

 

Anyway: congratulations!

[Dave Hunt]

I’ve just been informed that today’s plans have been unilaterally changed and we are now going to Trentham Gardens for some clothes shopping. Sighhhh…..

 

I’m just going out; I may be some time….

 

Dave

[SM42]

Free bacon roll consumed. Shame it was only one. 

 

There now follws coffee accompanied by the biscuits Mrs SM42 was given as it was the last day of term yesterday. 

 

I wonder if the beer will be free later*

 

Andy

 

* considered highly unlikely

[Dave Hunt]

I am now informed that even my plans for a quiet evening in front of the haunted fish tank are I abeyance as I had forgotten that we are participating in a Meet meeting (like Zoom but from a different provider I am told) with a group of old friends. At least it doesn’t involve me driving anywhere.

 

Dave

[Oldddudders]

18 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I’ve just been informed that today’s plans have been unilaterally changed and we are now going to Trentham Gardens for some clothes shopping. Sighhhh…..

This Trentham Gardens?

 

 

That was Sherry's 71st birthday in 2021. Picture by her daughter, who had taken her out for the day, having missed the 70th due to lockdown. And I infer from this contemporaneous pic that Trentham Gardens may not be all shops and flower displays. 

 

[bbishop]

British Telecom gave me 1st class travel, but I couldn't stand the type of passenger that frequented that class - always complaining loudly that their company wouldn't let them fly London - Leeds.    So always 2nd class unless I expected the train to be rammed, although the down journey could be spent in the restaurant car, having a cooked breakfast.

 

The game was surreal, a Jimmy goodbye fest.  On the last day the teams entered the field to both verses of Jerusalem.  The crowd stood and clapped.  Atkinson is an excellent find, but it should be Woakes being retired rather than Jimmy.  Apparently there is a phalanx of fast bowlers waiting in the wings but, from what I have seen, they play one game then are injured for the rest of the season.  Bring back Jimmy!

 

Game finished at about noon but Lord's kept the bars open throughout the afternoon and I was treating the consequences until after 7pm.  Knackered!

[DaveF]

As a teacher there was little need for us to claim expenses most of the time.  In theory I could claim expenses for local meetings but in practice the paperwork meant it wasn't worth it.  Trips further afield were normally by train, 2nd class, you could claim for food eaten on the train.  In the event of an overnight stay you could claim for a 2 or 3 course meal at the hotel where you stayed.  Drinks could not be claimed for.  At one time you couldn't claim for meals as it was said you would pay for food to eat at home, so being in a hotel was no different.

 

I went on a few courses where the course price included accommodation and food, they were rather better.

 

At one time it was suggested people should fly to meetings in London as the air fare was less than the rail fare.  That died a death because of the add on cost of getting to central London in time for meetings and the problems of flight times not fitting meeting times.  It was all the idea of someone in the council offices.

 

I was once involved in a government funded project which involved a lot of evening and weekend meetings in hotels in the north east.  The only problem was spending all the money that had been allocated.  We got through a lot of "flip charts" along with our meals and used taxis to and from the venues.

 

David

Edited July 13 by DaveF

[Dave Hunt]

31 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

This Trentham Gardens?

 

 

That was Sherry's 71st birthday in 2021. Picture by her daughter, who had taken her out for the day, having missed the 70th due to lockdown. And I infer from this contemporaneous pic that Trentham Gardens may not be all shops and flower displays. 

 

Yes, a large part of Trentham Gardens is like that but is only accessible through a gate from the shopping bit which involves payment. Our foray today will not involve going through that gate (sadly).

 

Dave

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

I like the Department Of Defence (AUS) approach to expenses.

Everything has a set rate, and they pay that amount into your account before hand, and thats it.

 

Travelling to say Townsville for 2 weeks? They book and pay for the hotel and car hire and then pay  you 14 days of breakfast, lunch and dinner expenses, plus a "sundry" amount per day.

In practice the amounts were generous unless you wanted to eat at the Ritz each night, but if you wanted to eat in Mcdonalds once a day and drink the rest then that was your business.

 

I used to eat a big breakfast, work through lunch then have  dinner in a pub or Asian restaurant which in places like Darwin and Katherine are all that's there so you cant go crazy even if you want to.   I rarely came back from a trip without having made a profit on the expenses.

 

Use of own car was similar. I dont recall the amount they paid per km but when I drove to Canberra I always made a decent  profit, even when I took the 6 Litre ute!

 

This was the old way with MoD until the last days before we were privatised, when expenses went to an actuals arrangement.  The change seemed to be for two reasons; (a) there was a threat (never knew how genuine) that HM Treasury would tax such expenses if people could profit from them* and (b) a belief that if would make people who previously tried to profit from allowances, be more "professional"**. 

 

*Perhaps some people fiddled their roles so that they got paid a low salary but claimed huge untaxed allowances/expenses per annum.  But were HMRC really going to go after the guy who'd made £30 twice a year? 

**I've always found such people won't be changed by a mere change to administration.  There were stories of blokes who instead of staying in a hotel when away on trials, pocketed the money and slept in their car overnight.

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

The Australian F111 was a bit of a hybrid, F111 with FB111 bits. I think Australia bought some surplus FB111's, though by that time they'd lost their strategic bomber mission and were back to being called F111.

 

 

 

What ever they were they kept the Indonesians on their toes.

 

Never used in anger but they'd turn up at the drop of a hat to do a Dump and Burn.

 

Grand Prix, Olympics, Kiddies birthday parties - none of them are the same since the Pigs retired!

[polybear]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Being treated as grownups was probably as important as the other benefits all rolled up together.

 

Every time I work at the Hospice Warehouse I find that everyone  is both friendly and appreciative - which is pretty much the exact opposite of the G.E.  The difference it makes is incredible.

 

38 minutes ago, DaveF said:

At one time you couldn't claim for meals as it was said you would pay for food to eat at home, so being in a hotel was no different.

 

 

True - but they seem to forget that the costs of preparing a meal at home is a mere fraction of that in a Hotel; many of the bigger hotel chains now charge on a "room only" basis - with brekkies extra if you want it.  The cost?  Well the last time I was going away with the G.E. it was often £16-95 - does brekkies at home cost that?

[monkeysarefun]

I turned on the telly to catch the Essendon V Melbourne AFL game but I see that we are about to play Wales (not in AFL though unfortunately) , so I might give that a go instead even though I dislike the Wallabies like most  do, and wish them mainly  failure and  nagging injuries.

Edited July 13 by monkeysarefun

[SM42]

I've just been visited by a religious group, who in a change from normal practice on such visits  left a leaflet and info about a special event in  Telford. 

 

I only knew they were there because I could hear someone outside and saw shapes through the glass of the front door. 

The doorbell is there for a reason, as is the letterbox. 

 

I'm pretty sure no model railways will be involved in the special event. 

 

Andy

[jjb1970]

My expenses have never been questioned. I work for a small organisation and there is a laid back 'stay in good hotels and eat well but don't be silly' attitude which relies on people acting reasonably and being treated reasonably in return. 

[GMKAT7]

Good morning folks,

 

Whilst in no way resembling a F111 or FB111 I have been known to perform a ’dump and burn’ 🔥manoeuvre after a night out.

 

However, this is not powered by Avtur or Avgas, but rather by several pints of Bass/Pedigree and a suitable curry or kebab supper 🤣

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[polybear]

34 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

My expenses have never been questioned. I work for a small organisation and there is a laid back 'stay in good hotels and eat well but don't be silly' attitude which relies on people acting reasonably and being treated reasonably in return. 

 

Back in the 80's at the old (and far superior) G.E. one of the Trials Teams seemed to play expenses as "if they're not queried then they haven't claimed enough" - so they'd keep pushing the boundaries until the HoD would scream "enough!!" and clamp right down, which would screw it for everyone.  And then the process would start all over again...

 

 

 

 

[jjb1970]

The air force are preparing for the national day air display, 6 F16's are doing manoeuvres overhead, splendid.

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

My expenses have never been questioned. I work for a small organisation and there is a laid back 'stay in good hotels and eat well but don't be silly' attitude which relies on people acting reasonably and being treated reasonably in return. 

Which is the way grown-ups should treat other grown-ups in the workplace.

 

Unfortunately I found my latter years in the defence industry to be all about insisting on work being delivered up to a standard, while reward and reimbursement of staff was down to a price.   I left it behind ten years ago and haven't missed it for a day.

Edited July 13 by Northmoor

[polybear]

8 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Which is the way grown-ups should treat other grown-ups in the workplace.

 

Unfortunately I found my latter years in the defence industry to be all about insisting on work being delivered up to a standard, while reward and reimbursement of staff was down to a price.   I left it behind ten years ago and haven't missed it for a day.

 

Certainly the case for the vast majority of the Engineering Staff....yet in my experience the Project Management Types etc. fared somewhat better....

[SM42]

I always try to avoid incurrimg expenses. 

 

In my experience the process is deliberately made complex to discourage. 

 

It's either booked and paid for up front, or they can send someone else

 

Andy 

[GMKAT7]

Good afternoon folks,

 

I am sure Ian/Oldudders will remember the 'bad-old' BR ways of expenses, otherwise known as Scale Allowances'.

'

So called because the allowances were on a rising/sliding scale, so the higher the job grade the better the expenses. Naturally those who were paid more could claim more :)

They were available to staff who worked away from their home station, by day or by week.

 

They were also sliding by the fact that the longer you were out on any one day then the more you could claim.

Departure before 08.00 = breakfast.

Out all day = lunchtime meal.

Back after 18.00 = evening meal.

Plus 'privilege' teas at railway refreshment rooms and on-train buffets, etc (but not BRSA clubs, AFAIK).

 

Most of my days out 'on-site' away from Derby could usually generate a breakfast and lunch.

A day-trip to Eastleigh or Cardiff Canton would often generate an evening meal as well, not being back into Derby until well after 18.00.

 

The other key factor was that if you went with a higher-graded member of staff i.e. one of the management grades you got the scale allowance at their grade!

Whilst sometimes it was good not to have the boss along, especially when dealing with your own design 'faux-pas', it often helped to bump up the pocket money.

 

On one particular project, Mk2F Sleeper Lounge conversion for ScotRail, the design work was done in Derby but the vehicles were modified at Ilford.

My old boss, an ex-Eastleigh man and a genuine nice guy to boot, came with me because he just fancied the day out from the office.

 

Cue, the train to London.

The Master Cutler (long since on the MML, not GC or ECML) left Derby at something like 07.59 (breakfast:)). I think it was timed just for the railway staff to have not too early a start, especially those travelling in from the 'burbs (Burton/Belper/Duffield where the management tended to live).

 

Long day out in Ilford, arriving back at St Pancras to get the train arriving back in Derby after 18.00.

Next day back in the office and after the technical 'download' it was time to complete the expenses form, at MS2 rate instead of my PTO rate. Bonus!

 

As Bruce Springsteen said, but not about this, "Glory Days".

 

Cheers,

Nigel.

 

 

[Dave Hunt]

The only occasion on which I profited when claiming expenses was when I was loaned to the Italian Air Force for nearly 6 months. Due to some sort of admin cockup at the Ministry I was deemed to be on temporary duty rather than an attachment and therefore entitled to accommodation and meal allowance but it wasn’t until I got back home that I was informed of my entitlements by our friendly allowances clerk (a civvy who had been in the RAF and hated the system ). Eventually, by sticking rigidly to the rules, she got me over £700 in excess of what it had actually cost me. Did I feel guilty? Well, when I found out that the MoD had charged the Italians over £1500 a day for my services, no I didn’t.

 

Dave

[jjb1970]

My employer is very egalitarian. The attitude is that the different value to the organization and recognition of skills and experience of persons is addressed in salary. After that, travel arrangements, conditions when working away (hotels, food, use of phones etc) are the same across the board. Ditto, everyone in the same country (we are split across four countries) gets the same health insurance and non-pay benefits. I like it, when I go to China I often go with a young lady from the office who is a native Mandarin speaker (I used the word 'escorted by her' in another thread which may have been ill-advised........) and she travels in the same flight cabin, stays in the same hotel and eats the same standard of food etc etc as I do.

 

I have contacts in several organizations (including government departments) who fly in the good seats and enjoy good hotels themselves and put the underlings in steerage and cheaper hotels, which to me is just cheap and unnecessary. 

[Northmoor]

10 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

On expenses it always amazes me how many people are willing to risk good jobs making dodgy expense and mileage claims. Not only are they risking their current position, it's a small world and being dismissed for fraudulent expense claims isn't a good way to impress potential alternative employers. 

 

Agree 100%.  I have never ever claimed for anything I wasn't entitled to.  Even the Azores beers were a claim in place of the meal, which would have been more expensive, I would have added to my hotel bill and which I didn't have.

 

Mileage claims, well I sometimes used my own (cheap) car for site-to-site trips instead of a slightly cheaper (like £5) hire car, but the extra time to collect/drop that off a hire car would have more than offset that.  Yes we really were scrutinising spend to that level.  I certainly didn't use my own banger to visit customers (especially after one time I did because a last minute arrangement meant there was nothing available, I broke down on the M4 in the pouring rain.....).  Before I left my Great Empire, I learned that one colleague had, because his manager didn't understand the system, been (unknowingly) overclaiming his home-duty mileage by about 150% for three years.  Another was staying away each week at a B&B and claiming the overnight room rate, except that this B&B was run by his girlfriend.