The Night Mail

[Northmoor]

9 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The business practice I really hated (and which should be stamped on very hard) is big companies who basically wait for legal action before settling invoices which can push small companies under. I have worked for companies that did it, one was a large German multi-national gas and electricity company, and the other up in Cumbria. I found it profoundly embarrassing as I had contractors who'd provided services as agreed in their contracts who then took forever to be paid despite terms having also been agreed in the contract. They had every right to rant at me, quite a few companies refused to work for us and I thought they were correct to look elsewhere. The one in Cumbria was notorious for getting small suppliers addicted to their business then screwing them in a big way. Awful.

It Britain, such companies are commonly identified by the name "Tesco".  There are allegedly many small companies who, despite offers of potentially massive increases in turnover, refuse point blank to supply the UK's #1 Grocer.

[iL Dottore]

I've been very fortunate in having worked for companies that had good travel and expenses policies (business or first class flights, four or five star hotels, meals - with drinks - at pretty much any restaurant we wished to eat at). This was not from the goodness of their hearts, but rather in recognition that 1) people with the right combination of academic and clinical experience were very hard to find (and rather expensive and time consuming to replace if they "walked") and 2) when said individuals were/are making decisions that both impact on patients (albeit indirectly) and £1/2 Billion programmes you don't want them to go into a critical meeting knackered and discombobulated from spending 14 hours in economy and a restless night in a no-tell motel followed by a sugar high from the cheap breakfast donuts...

 

I was indeed lucky - working for companies that paid well, treated us well, treated us like grown-ups and had high standards we were expected to meet.

Needless to say employee turnover was very, very.low with most departures being of colleagues going to much more senior positions (more responsibility, more authority and more money)

 

Edited July 12 by iL Dottore
Typo

[Winslow Boy]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

It Britain, such companies are commonly identified by the name "Tesco".  There are allegedly many small companies who, despite offers of potentially massive increases in turnover, refuse point blank to supply the UK's #1 Grocer.

Another one is B & Q. Extended their payment of suppliers bills from three to six months a couple of years back. Dread to think what it is now.

[PupCam]

12 hours ago, skipepsi said:

Avoid the Smart motorways if you can.

 

Two words that have no business being in the same sentence.       Anybody with even just 1/2 a brain cell knows that it is a particularly stupid concept  (i.e.  a motorway with no continuous hard shoulder)

 

12 hours ago, Canal Digger said:

Our (43rd) Wedding Aniv' yesterday so had a day out to Weymouth (in Dorset for those not local).

 

Belated congratulations!

 

12 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The business practice I really hated (and which should be stamped on very hard) is big companies who basically wait for legal action before settling invoices which can push small companies under.

 

It's been going on for years (if not centuries).      In the 80's when I worked for a large company (often referred to as the GE) my mother worked for a small company that provided items related to the use and handling of chemicals.    The large company bought products from the small company and behaved in the manner mentioned (indeed, it was procedure and part of the standard Ts & Cs).   As mother's job was in accounts she used to have to phone all those big bad companies up every month to chivvy them along.   In the case of this particular company when she'd finished chivvying she asked to be put through to a particular engineering department to speak to a then junior member of staff.      Well, it wasn't immediately obvious that we were related and it was always good to catch up for a chat .....

 

9 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I suppose one way of dealing with companies that don’t pay promptly is to do the work until a critical point (for them) and then very publicly announce that your work will not be finished UNTIL you get paid (and fine print in the contract states that). And if they stand to loose money if you don’t finish your work, they will (probably?) pay up.

 

A great idea but the small companies often have very little (a lot of the time no) control of what's in the contract.   You deal with the big boys on the big boy's terms or not at all.

 

8 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

I see the new lot want to make the water company bosses  personally liable for any company failures. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought directors already were.

 

New lot / old lot - don't care who does it but even if they technically are already they have not been held to account as they should have been.  Of course , this is not just a malaise of the water companies.   It's the way the whole damn (no pun intended) place has been run for years.    None of them  have been held to account.  The closest they get is a telling off, a golden handshake and no doubt a jolly fine reference.

 

I must admit I do like Fergal Sharkey, he's got the right idea!

 

3 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I've often said that amongst my best work memory is sitting out the front of a bar overlooking the old Marseilles Harbour on a warm September day 25 years ago, sipping cold beer with a work colleague and our customer - with whom we had an excellent, informal working relationship - who was picking up the bill.

 

One of my best such work memories was sitting in the roof top bar of the Hotel Forum in Rome quaffing drinks as the sun went down on a summer's evening with that stunning view of Rome streching out in front of us.     On one occasion Roger Whittaker was sitting at the next table.    At least he had the good grace to not start singing or whistling 🤣

 

Anyway, the roof top bar of the Hotel Forum was somewhat better than the more usual fodder of a meal in a curry house in Bolton or Bristol!

 

 

 

Edited July 12 by PupCam

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

Needless to say employee turnover was very, very.low

Jeeez not surprised after grazing in that rich paddock!!   They would have had to turn you over by pushing you with a broom!

Edited July 12 by monkeysarefun

[PhilJ W]

10 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I suppose one way of dealing with companies that don’t pay promptly is to do the work until a critical point (for them) and then very publicly announce that your work will not be finished UNTIL you get paid (and fine print in the contract states that). And if they stand to loose money if you don’t finish your work, they will (probably?) pay up.

 

Now, I am very much an Anglophile, and having grown up in London for the first decade or so of my life, I retain a fondness for both city and country. But what I have noticed over the past 30 years or so, is the rise of both incompetence and venality in almost all walks of life, an incompetence and venality that seems to be institutional (although there are certainly enough individuals who are either incompetent or venal or both).

 

Were it in my power, I would certainly make some radical changes to the business environment in the UK. Amongst the things I would look at achieving would be the elimination of zero hour contracts, prompt payment of all invoices as specified in the contract (with automatic fines levied for each day a small or medium size contractor or  does not get paid as agreed), a significant reassessment of “shareholder value“ and how to achieve that, as well as making it a hell of a lot more difficult to buy a company just to asset strip it.

 

But what I think would benefit people in the UK the most would be the introduction of a DWP tax. This would be a tax levied primarily (but not exclusively) on big companies for each employee that has to claim that benefits from the DWP, the company would be taxed a certain amount. with further penalties enacted, if, instead of paying their benefit claiming employees a decent wage, they decide to fire them instead.

 

I would also be very tempted to create an executive suite downsizing law. This would require the termination of one (or more) “managers“ for every 10 (or more) employees “downsized“ or made redundant.

 

And finally, for those utilities and services now run by private companies, I would Institute a “no pain no gain” law. Whereby any company that provides a service to the country can, by all means, make money, but when things go pear-shaped, the people running the company have to be answerable for their incompetence even if it means them being made, personally, financially responsible for the company going down the tubes. 

To eliminate zero hours contracts simply amend the minimum wage regulations. If the contract is 0 to 5 hours the employee will have to be paid at double the minimum hourly rate and over 5 but less than 10 hours time and a half. And enhanced hours for for late night and weekend work.

[PhilJ W]

Another dubious business practice is to declare bankruptcy leaving a lot of unpaid bills then starting another 'new' business under a new name but with the same management. 

[Dave Hunt]

4 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Marconi/GEC - they were right 'sterds when it came to expenses; many of their guys said they weren't even allowed soft drinks with a meal - and the food bill had to be cheap as well.

Of all the firms I visited or was involved with on RAF business, the one I can’t remember taking me/us out to dinner was Marconi/GEC. They did provide decent lunches in house though.

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Another dubious business practice is to declare bankruptcy leaving a lot of unpaid bills then starting another 'new' business under a new name but with the same management. 

When we moved into Hunt Towers it soon became apparent that one of our neighbours was, shall we say, not well thought of hereabouts. Turned out he’d done that three times with the ’new’ company being registered in wife’s or other relatives’ names but nothing else changed. Eventually they were more or less ostracised in the town and were more or less forced to close the business as almost no-one would deal with them.

 

Dave

 

 

Edited July 12 by Dave Hunt

[skipepsi]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

Another dubious business practice is to declare bankruptcy leaving a lot of unpaid bills then starting another 'new' business under a new name but with the same management. 

Pre pack going into administration with a deal already sorted behind closed doors. Done legally apparently but with no morals. 

Edited July 13 by skipepsi
fat finger syndrome

[J. S. Bach]

19 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

 ...snip... public to compensate via tipping deserves to go under in my book.

 

Of course that means pretty much every US food/service industry  business. 

For some that would be no loss.

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont,

[jjb1970]

I must be unusual in being regularly told I don't have to be cheap when on company business. 

 

The funny thing is, I am not really doing it to be cheap. My arrangement is I get business class air travel but am expected to be 'responsible ' when booking flights (I do my own travel and submit a claim each month). As an airline geek I like to try different airlines,  and enjoy transfers in airports if there's an opportunity to take picture.

 

So I use Air China a lot, as a Star Alliance airline it maintains my Singapore Airlines gold card (very useful for private travel as it gives expedited ground handling, lounge access and some good perks if flying economy) and Beijing Capital is great for taking pics. You have to shoot through glass but there are fantastic views of two of the runways and much of the apron from the Air China international terminal. And properly hot flight attendants 🤪

 

Another one I like is Vietnam Airlines.  My boss was worried about my state of mind but they're a good airline (unlike European airlines their short haul services have a proper business class cabin and provide a full meal service), transfers in Ho Chi Minh are quick and easy and Ho Chi Minh is great for taking pictures too with great views of the runway from the terminal,  They're probably my favourite route to London.

 

Despite being authoritarian countries there are no issues using cameras in Beijing, Shanghai, Hanoi or Ho Chi Minh airports. A big caveat on that is it is very different in airports which share space with air force bases.

 

I flew Air India a few times and had zero complaints. Again a nice part for me was plenty of photo spots in New Delhi airport.

 

All the Airlines I have tried have done the important stuff of business class well - expedited ground handling, lounges and lie flat beds for long haul.

 

Other favourites which are much more conventional choices are ANA of Japan and Asiana of the Republic of Korea. Turkish are good too, especially their new A350's. Istanbul airport shames the other big European hub airports.

 

So there's a  reason more than mere thrift why I use some airlines.

[jjb1970]

On expenses it always amazes me how many people are willing to risk good jobs making dodgy expense and mileage claims. Not only are they risking their current position, it's a small world and being dismissed for fraudulent expense claims isn't a good way to impress potential alternative employers. 

 

The other thing that gets me is how many decide to go out in a blaze of glory. I get why people do it and the satisfaction from telling people what you really think but again it's a small world and it's not sensible to wilfully pee off people who in many cases could return the favour if they really wanted to.

 

I had a colleague at Lloyd's Register who was a nice guy but one of those easily offended and who ended up going down the obsessive behaviour hole, the entire company was against him. It wasn't,  and while LR was far from perfect I still say I got way more out of LR than they got from me given the professional development and opportunities I received. I advised him to move on if he was that unhappy but he stayed for years, I truly believe some get a strange satisfaction from feeling perpetually aggrieved. When he did go he burnt every bridge and then some, I strongly advised him to just say all the usual nice things and go quietly on good terms (despite him having convinced himself he was the equivalent of a holocaust survivor he was treated well by LR) but no, he went full turbo. All he did was alienate people,  make sure there was no way back and make sure that whenever anyone asks about him on the margins it'll be 'oh him, best not'. 

[rockershovel]

I often found BA to be embarrassingly poor service. Their LHR - Baku run, basically a commuter flight for BP staff and contractors was equipped with "cascaded" planes which were simply unfit for a 5 hrs flight. The practice of stocking the plane once for a return flight meant that running out of menu options was routine, running out of beer was common and I remember running out of water on at least one occasion. 

 

Their Business Class was notably bad. 

[jjb1970]

In Asia they talk about 'euro business class', the concept of a single cabin configuration where they just move the curtain and don't sell the centre seat. That's pretty much the standard for European short haul narrow body aircraft, which can operate quite long flights. 

 

Thai are trialing it with the former Thai Smile aircraft (their former LCC which has now been folded into the normal Thai operation). Many are watching with interest and hoping it doesn't catch on but it has created the rather crazy scenario where if you fly business class Bangkok-Singapore (2 hours) with Thai you can enjoy a superb long haul configured A350 or an excellent 777 or 787 or be consigned to an LCC configured A320 depending on flight number.

[jamie92208]

When I was managing a software project expenses were a nightmare as they were strictly prescribed in police regulations and based on rank, not responsibility.  I did however have a couple of good experiences. 

 

Firstly going to the BTP HQ in London we were provided with first class tickets by BTP, which included the full breakfast.  An Assistant Chief Constable  was rather surprised to see two mere Sergeants in the same coach as him.  We both made the most of the breakfast and had to be woken up at King's Cross. 

 

Our software contractors were based in Farnborough and offered us tickets to thee trade days of the air show.  We did clear this with higher authority but had to take a days annual leave each, whilst on a routine visit down there. 

 

Jamie

[polybear]

9 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I was indeed lucky - working for companies that paid well, treated us well, treated us like grown-ups and had high standards we were expected to meet.

 

 

Not the Great Empire then.....

 

8 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

Another one is B & Q. Extended their payment of suppliers bills from three to six months a couple of years back. Dread to think what it is now.

 

Which of course means that if B & Q went under then a lot of companies would lose 6 month's money, if not more.

 

21 hours ago, Canal Digger said:

Our (43rd) Wedding Aniv' yesterday so had a day out to Weymouth (in Dorset for those not local).

 

Belated VHBAW's to Mr & Mrs CeeDee 🎂🎂

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, jamie92208 said:

When I was managing a software project expenses were a nightmare as they were strictly prescribed in police regulations and based on rank, not responsibility.  I did however have a couple of good experiences. 

 

Firstly going to the BTP HQ in London we were provided with first class tickets by BTP, which included the full breakfast.  An Assistant Chief Constable  was rather surprised to see two mere Sergeants in the same coach as him.  We both made the most of the breakfast and had to be woken up at King's Cross. 

 

Our software contractors were based in Farnborough and offered us tickets to thee trade days of the air show.  We did clear this with higher authority but had to take a days annual leave each, whilst on a routine visit down there. 

A BTP ACC used to travel on my train, and he and Tom Winsor, then Rail Regulator, would often chat, I recall. The ACC would have been retired before TW - now Sir Thomas, I read - became HM Inspector of Constabulary. On another occasion I heard TW telling someone that in his time as Rail Regulator he'd never claimed expenses. 

 

The best freebies I got were on a 1985 course at Crewe, when we had a trip on the Festiniog, as well as a private DMU tour of the Manchester area. The course was run by BR, but under the aegis of Dr Robert Smith from DTp, as a way of getting newcomers to the industry into a set of senior positions effectively mandated by HM Treasury.

[iL Dottore]

9 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Jeeez not surprised after grazing in that rich paddock!!   They would have had to turn you over by pushing you with a broom!

It was nice 😁

BUT….

(see below)

10 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I was indeed lucky - working for companies that paid well, treated us well, treated us like grown-ups and had high standards we were expected to meet.

Being treated as grownups was probably as important as the other benefits all rolled up together.

 

This meant that

• Decisions making (with concomitant authority) was pushed down to the lowest possible level (which meant that the people actually doing the work made the decisions).
• You worked to the job, not the clock. (Which meant that although at key timepoints this required 12 hour days and weekend working, when things were quiet as long as you kept things ticking over, you could work the very bare minimum [core hours] and have plenty of spare time)
• Standards were high, as were expectations of meeting those standards (no “close enough for government work”) 

Another critical point was that in this company, senior management had all “come up from the tools” - so they knew very well what you were doing, as they had done it themselves. This had the potential of being a double edged sword. For not only did they know well what could be done, but also what should be done.

Then the company made the mistake of acquiring an American bio-tech, which brought in senior people with all the wrong ideas about how to do drug development….

 

Interestingly, people who came from this company pre reverse-takeover (which it was) and from one or two other European companies - also pre merger with a US company - are considered as being amongst the best in the business. Those who started out post-merger, not so (too many US and UK corporate cultures treat their employees as potentially naughty children which have to be told what to do with a management style - from a management who have never actually been at the coalface - of “don’t do as I do, do as I say”. Not the best way to develop a workforce of highly motivated, highly skilled, and highly dedicated employees).

 

Treating your people as grownups definitely is a win-win all ‘round

 

Edited July 13 by iL Dottore
Typo, wording

[monkeysarefun]

18 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Those old enough will remember the cancellation of the TSR2 project.  In order to have a nuclear strike capable aircraft, the Government opted to buy fifty F-111(K?) from General Dynamics.   This order was also cancelled after production had started.  (The Australians ended up with them I believe.)

WE got the C variant, longer wings and strengthened undercarriage.

 

Saw one today as a matter of fact at the Historic Aircraft Restoration Society museum south of Wollongong.

 

[jjb1970]

The Australian F111 was a bit of a hybrid, F111 with FB111 bits. I think Australia bought some surplus FB111's, though by that time they'd lost their strategic bomber mission and were back to being called F111.

[monkeysarefun]

I like the Department Of Defence (AUS) approach to expenses.

Everything has a set rate, and they pay that amount into your account before hand, and thats it.

 

Travelling to say Townsville for 2 weeks? They book and pay for the hotel and car hire and then pay  you 14 days of breakfast, lunch and dinner expenses, plus a "sundry" amount per day.

In practice the amounts were generous unless you wanted to eat at the Ritz each night, but if you wanted to eat in Mcdonalds once a day and drink the rest then that was your business.

 

I used to eat a big breakfast, work through lunch then have  dinner in a pub or Asian restaurant which in places like Darwin and Katherine are all that's there so you cant go crazy even if you want to.   I rarely came back from a trip without having made a profit on the expenses.

 

Use of own car was similar. I dont recall the amount they paid per km but when I drove to Canberra I always made a decent  profit, even when I took the 6 Litre ute!

 

Edited July 13 by monkeysarefun

[SM42]

This morning Mrs SM42 is cooking breakfast the way my nephew does. She's buying it, well more precisely she is using  freebie vouchers at the recently opened Gregg's down the road. 

 

They been handed vouchets out with rather gay abandon in the local area so we have sampled their coffee, doughnuts and now breakfast rolls all for free. 

 

Not a place we would normally use, but hey, it's  free.

 

At lunch time I am off to a colleague's  birthday drinks.  His birthday isn't till October, but that is no time of the year to go out. 

 

It's not often I get to such dos as the getting back is a pain, they are usually in Brum, (40 odd minutes away and a last train at an early hour considering what time such events usually start.)

It just does seem worth the hassle of travelling and permanently checking the time takes the fun out of it.

 

 This one is just 8 miles or 12 minutes away on the train so taxi or Mrs SM42 are  convenient and relatively imexpensive back up plans.  It's also a lunch time start. 

 

Things could get messy and radio silence can be expected from this part of the world for a while this afternoon.

 

Andy

[Dave Hunt]

As previously mentioned, we travelled to see some of the grandkids in Les Mis yesterday evening and it was excellent. We finally got home just after midnight and this morning I’m whacked. Not so long ago a total of four and a half hours’ driving wouldn’t have been anything to remark on but nowadays it is tiring. Today is food shopping followed by sorting out the damaged shearlegs for the layout then I hope for a quiet evening with a takeaway and whatever the tv has to offer. 
 

Dave