The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

A couple of recollections of events concerning the NRM.  First is that years ago Bob Essery, Fred James and I spent a lot of our spare time cataloguing the Derby LDO drawings collection - at the NRM's request. We did the job quite assiduously and went to a great deal of trouble identifying wherever possible which locomotives the individual drawings pertained to and adding the relevant information to the lists. At first the museum seemed quite satisfied with what we were doing and one positive spinoff was the start of the Wild Swan books in the Midland Engines and LMS Locomotive Profile series that used many of the drawings we had worked on and for which I did the writing. But then when the drawings appeared in the NRM's catalogue all the references to the subject matter that we had added was missing and when l queried this I was told that since none of us was a qualified librarian or curator our additions were not acceptable. My second experience of note was when I was writing a book about the LMS twin diesels 10000 and 10001 and found out that the NRM had been given a complete set of English Electric operating and servicing manuals so naturally I set about trying to get access to them. In that I was frustrated by NRM personnel telling me that although they most probably had the volumes in question they hadn't been catalogued and since I wasn't a qualified librarian or curator I couldn't be given access. I make no comment on these instances except to say that they occurred after nearly all the 'old gang' of ex-railwaymen and others with a great deal of railway knowledge had left to be replaced by 'professional' librarians and curators. 

 

Dave

 

 

Edited July 9 by Dave Hunt

[iL Dottore]

Evening All,

 

Just a few thoughts:

 

1) When museums like the NRM get big grants (the NRM trousered £15 million from the government in March 2024) why are they still begging for money? Surely they aren't that incompetent with their budget?

 

2) I understand @Willie Whizz point about the challenges of appealing to various audiences, but other countries manage to do AND without condescension or dumbing down. So why can't Britain?

 

3) Soap Operas - can't abide them and, unfortunately, many promising drama series quickly descend into Soap Opera territory - like Call The Midwife. One perceptive critic observed that US Soap Operas were/are inspirational (wanna be a rich b#gger like JR) whilst Uk Soap Operas are "thank God" dramas as in "my life may be carp, but Thank God my life isn't as bad as XXXXX in [name of Soap Opera]"

Edited July 9 by iL Dottore

[iL Dottore]

52 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I wonder what you'd need to do to "prove" you are a "professional"?  Would claiming to be writing a book do the job?

 

Tell them you are Prof P Bear of Buy Your Degree University researching the role of slavery in the running of the ECML as part of a project to decolonise the LNER.

 

You'll be given unfettered access to everything

[Compound2632]

20 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

First is that years ago Bob Essery, Fred James and I spent a lot of our spare time cataloguing the Derby LDO drawings collection - at the NRM's request. We did the job quite assiduously and went to a great deal of trouble identifying wherever possible which locomotives the individual drawings pertained to and adding the relevant information to the lists.

 

I've been meaning to ask, have you deposited your annotated catalogue with an appropriate archive, where it can actually be accessed and of use to bona-fide amateur researchers? Maybe digitised and turned into a web-based resource?

Edited July 9 by Compound2632

[iL Dottore]

23 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

A couple of recollections of events concerning the NRM.  First is that years ago Bob Essery, Fred James and I spent a lot of our spare time cataloguing the Derby LDO drawings collection - at the NRM's request. We did the job quite assiduously and went to a great deal of trouble identifying wherever possible which locomotives the individual drawings pertained to and adding the relevant information to the lists. At first the museum seemed quite satisfied with what we were doing and one positive spinoff was the start of the Wild Swan books in the Midland Engines and LMS Locomotive Profile series that used many of the drawings we had worked on and for which I did the writing. But then when the drawings appeared in the NRM's catalogue all the references to the subject matter that we had added was missing and when l queried this I was told that since none of us was a qualified librarian or curator our additions were not acceptable. My second experience of note was when I was writing a book about the LMS twin diesels 10000 and 10001 and found out that the NRM had been given a complete set of English Electric operating and servicing manuals so naturally I set about trying to get access to them. In that I was frustrated by NRM personnel telling me that although they most probably had the volumes in question they hadn't been catalogued and since I wasn't a qualified librarian or curator I couldn't be given access. I make no comment on these instances except to say that they occurred after nearly all the 'old gang' of ex-railwaymen and others with a great deal of railway knowledge had left to be replaced by 'professional' librarians and curators. 

 

Dave

 

 

You just need to ask them one question:"and what have YOU published on the topic?" chances are absolutely nothing.

 

This is the sort of arrogance of the self-appointed "expert" that really p1sses people off.

 

Perhaps you should have said to them "I've been trained on, and flown and operated aircraft with sophisticated multi million pound weapon systems so I think I can manage to master the &£#% dewey decimal system"

 

Come the revolution, if it ever does, one of the things I will do is to make every single "professional" museum curator and librarian reapply for their own job by having to pass an exam regarding the topic or topics of their museum. The minimum passing grade would be 100%, anyone scoring less than 90% will be given a pistol with one bullet in it and be "invited" to do the honourable thing and permanently (ahem) "retire"

 

Edited July 9 by iL Dottore
Spelling

[Dave Hunt]

12 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I've been meaning to ask, have you deposited your annotated catalogue with an appropriate archive, where it can actually be accessed and of use to bona-fide amateur researchers? Maybe digitised and turned into a web-based resource?

 

Sadly, no. Unfortunately we trusted the NRM. What we used to do was give the work we had done that day as we were leaving so that the catalogue could be constantly updated although it was never published until well after we had finished completely.

 

Dave

Edited July 9 by Dave Hunt

[PupCam]

6 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

A gold star to the RAF museums as I have never experienced it there (which is not to say it doesn't happen there).

 

Don't get me started on RAF Hendon* ...

 

* Credit were credit is due; I recall the Claude-Grahame White Aircraft Factory part as being rather good but it doesn't offset or excuse the carnage of dismantling the Battle of Britain hall

[Compound2632]

6 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

Sadly, no. Unfortunately we trusted the NRM.

 

But you kept a copy...

[Dave Hunt]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But you kept a copy...

 

Yes, it was kept by Fred James but after he died and John Jennison and I went through all his stuff it was nowhere to be found.

 

Dave

[pH]

37 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

We visited China in 2000 and it was modernising rapidly by then, but you could still be stared at.  Especially my wife (blond-haired) and Patrick, on our tour group (black), but like you say, it was clearly curiosity; a lot of young men in Shanghai might have not long arrived from the countryside to seek work and we might have been the first Westerners they ever saw. 

A friend of mine visited China in the mid 1970s. He was doing sales work on behalf of his employer - a manufacturer of scientific equipment - but was also giving lectures on the theory and practice behind their equipment.

 

He definitely was the first Westerner seen in many places on his trip. In some hotels, he was given a restaurant table by a window, and people would congregate outside to watch him eat.
 

In one city he lost his wallet - and it made it back to his hotel before he did. Whoever found it apparently worked out from the contents that it had to belong to a Westerner, and there was only one hotel in town where such people stayed.

 

 

[Dave Hunt]

6 minutes ago, PupCam said:

 

Don't get me started on RAF Hendon* ...

 

* Credit were credit is due; I recall the Claude-Grahame White Aircraft Factory part as being rather good but it doesn't offset or excuse the carnage of dismantling the Battle of Britain hall

 

When I recently visited the Cosford museum after many years I was looking forward to reacquainting myself with a Lightning cockpit only to find that the aircraft was nailed to the wall.

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

55 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

You just need to ask them one question:"and what have YOU published on the topic?" chances are absolutely nothing.

 

This is the sort of arrogance of the self-appointed "expert" that really p1sses people off.

 

Perhaps you should have said to them "I've been trained on, and flown and operated aircraft with sophisticated multi million pound weapon systems so I think I can manage to master the &£#% dewey decimal system"

 

Come the revolution, if it ever does, one of the things I will do is to make every single "professional" museum curator and librarian reapply for their own job by having to pass an exam regarding the topic or topics of their museum. The minimum passing grade would be 100%, anyone scoring less than 90% will be given a pistol with one bullet in it and be "invited" to do the honourable thing and permanently (ahem) "retire"

 

They'd miss!

[J. S. Bach]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

 ...snip...  anyone scoring less than 90% will be given a pistol with one bullet in it and be "invited" to do the honourable thing and permanently (ahem) "retire"

I would hand them the pistol and the bullet separately; just in case. And, to give you time to depart the room!

[monkeysarefun]

11 hours ago, New Haven Neil said:

And parrots and budgies.

Parrots and fries?

 

[J. S. Bach]

1 hour ago, pH said:

 ...snip... In one city he lost his wallet - and it made it back to his hotel before he did. Whoever found it apparently worked out from the contents that it had to belong to a Westerner, and there was only one hotel in town where such people stayed.

A friend lost his wallet in Toronto and, although it did not get back to his motel before he did, when he did get it back, all of the contents were still in, even the money.

[J. S. Bach]

1 hour ago, Dave Hunt said:

When I recently visited the Cosford museum after many years I was looking forward to reacquainting myself with a Lightning cockpit only to find that the aircraft was nailed to the wall.

Dave

I once acquainted myself with the cockpit of an F-4 at the USAF Museum in Dayton:

 

 

But I was much more familiar with the cockpit of the RA-5C Vigilante as I was attached to the RVAH-6 flight line to operate the ground support equipment.

 

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[jjb1970]

I think it's easy to see the world through a very rose tinted lens and venerate ways of life we imagine to be idyllic but which are anything but.

 

We visited the Jatiluwih rice fields last week, a beautiful place which is well worth the effort to see. Rice paddies up the sides of mountains which are a series of terraces cut into the mountain sides. I looked around and in such beautiful surroundings started feeling rather envious of the locals, then reminded myself of what a hard life farmers have in Indonesia. It may look idyllic but it is hard manual work, long hours and low income.

 

The 19th century romantics were obsessed with the idea of a pastoral utopia with hardy people of the soil living in harmony with nature yet I imagine farm labourers migrated to cities for the same reason they do in China, India, Indonesia, Vietnam and countless other countries - however bad things are in industrialised cities they see a better future than toiling in fields.

[skipepsi]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

Parrots and fries?

 

I would not like to eat the parrot or its fries.

[jjb1970]

6 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

It's the ever present weeds, litter and graffiti that put a downer on certain parts of the capital for me Dudders, it just looks so bloody awful. Not a great impression to give visitors

 

 

 

It really sticks out like a sore thumb for visitors from places where it doesn't happen.  I think people in much of Europe and the US tune it out as background white noise and stop noticing most of it. Now when I visit after becoming accustomed to a city where graffiti is so rare it screams at you it is awful to see it everywhere.  I am an enthusiast of European trains but trains in some European countries are dreadful for graffiti.

[AndyID]

Arriving at  Paisley Gilmour street on the line from Greenock probably terminating Glasgow Saint Enoch.

 

[BR60103]

I don't know why, but tonight's Night Mail has taken me longer to get through than ever before.

 

I have tried to avoid rating political discussions or television programs I've never seen.

 

[monkeysarefun]

2 hours ago, skipepsi said:

I would not like to eat the parrot or its fries.

It wasn't a serving suggestion.!

[rockershovel]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

I think it's easy to see the world through a very rose tinted lens and venerate ways of life we imagine to be idyllic but which are anything but.

 

We visited the Jatiluwih rice fields last week, a beautiful place which is well worth the effort to see. Rice paddies up the sides of mountains which are a series of terraces cut into the mountain sides. I looked around and in such beautiful surroundings started feeling rather envious of the locals, then reminded myself of what a hard life farmers have in Indonesia. It may look idyllic but it is hard manual work, long hours and low income.

 

The 19th century romantics were obsessed with the idea of a pastoral utopia with hardy people of the soil living in harmony with nature yet I imagine farm labourers migrated to cities for the same reason they do in China, India, Indonesia, Vietnam and countless other countries - however bad things are in industrialised cities they see a better future than toiling in fields.

Indeed. I visited Pakistan working on a drilling project oh, quite a long time ago now. I'm afraid I couldn't get past the squalor and corruption (including problems getting paid) and I've never returned. The same is true of India, including Indian-opersted vessels.

 

I occasionally see these adverts in which laughing young professionals disport themselves throwing paint over each other in Indian festivals and wonder if any of them have actually been?

 

 

Edited July 10 by rockershovel

[pH]

3 hours ago, AndyID said:

Arriving at  Paisley Gilmour street on the line from Greenock probably terminating Glasgow Saint Enoch.

 

PARDON???!!! Gourock and Wemyss Bay line trains ran to Central!

 

Trains to St Enoch from Gilmour Street left from the platform just visible on the left.

 

(AFAIK, there was only one exception per day to those rules at the time of that photo.)

 

Nice picture, though. 

Edited July 10 by pH