The Night Mail

[Happy Hippo]

1 minute ago, jjb1970 said:

Are British museums still trying to guilt trip people into making donations?

 

That really made me cross. If the museums are advertised as free entry then they're free to enter and people should feel no guilt about visiting for free. Now personally when I visit national/free entry museums I generally make a donation as I think it fair to contribute and it's still a cheap and enjoyable day out. However if I  have to walk through picket lines of wannabe chiggers I refuse as it annoys me. If they want money then pressure the government to introduce entry fees but don't try and make people feel guilty for expecting a free entry museum to be free to enter.

 

A gold star to the RAF museums as I have never experienced it there (which is not to say it doesn't happen there).

 

 

A lot of museums are free, but they catch you with the car parking fees.

 

They introduced them at the Blist's Hill Victorian town in the Iron Bridge gorge, but if you are  a friend (paid)  of the Museum with the bolt on (additional fee) express access you get 10% off all sales on site as well as free car parking.

 

10% off beer/chips/cakes! You can recover the extra cost over the course of a couple of trips

[rockershovel]

16 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Just out of curiosity, I looked at the TripAdvisor reviews of the NRM. There were a number of 1 and 2 star reviews and a lot of 4 star reviews - including such gems as "A wide choice of hot and cold food, in the Station Hall cafe, Plenty of comfortable seating between the trains on display" and "We arrived for a days visit to the museum, which we decided would start with sausage baps and coffee. Wow, both were fantastic! The presentation and attention to detail of all their food was first class. Although we didn’t eat at lunchtime we went back to have a look and were only more impressed! All the staff we spoke to were really friendly and helpful, can’t praise them and there offering enough" [sic]. I haven't actually done any stats on the reviews, but certainly a disproportionate number fixated on the food, and many of these reviews had titles like "Best Scones in York!" and "Brilliant food" Hardly a ringing endorsement of a Railway Museum.

 

I tried to find a menu online for either of the restaurants   sorry eating places at the NRM but to no avail.  Which doesn't bode well...

 

Anyway back to the reviews and the 1-star and 2-star reviews - which seemed a lot more focussed on the limitations on the NRM as a Railway Museum with comments like "The exhibits look ill-cared for and there is too much emphasis on extracting money from visitors", "The new building is basically a large soulless warehouse with a handful of trains making it half the attraction it used to be. Sadly it’s lost its way. If you’ve been to the original don’t spoil your memories by visiting the new place", or "Absolutely horrendous. Not fit to be called a National museum. The huge importance the railways have played in this country are just being disregarded in favour of terrible ideas that don’t represent what the place should be about".  One review from a <mike d> (August 2023) was incredibly scathing. And well worth reading.

 

And to conclude this sorry and sad peek at the NRM. here is a quote from the NRM Director "We can all get dewy-eyed over Mallard, but that’s not helping us into the future".

 

Words fail me....

That's actually quite a good summary of the place. My 3 year old grandson went absolutely bonkers at ALL THE TRAINS and I confess, Mallard is an emotional experience for me - one of my last outings with my father was to see it at Kings Cross - but as a National collection for the country which gave the world railways it leaves a good deal to be desired. 

[Willie Whizz]

I haven’t been to the NRM for many years, but this discussion is familiar from other contexts. I think what the organisations AND their potential customers need to get their heads around is that these days it’s almost impossible to reconcile the two extremes. 
 

Which do you want?

- A “railway-themed Visitor Experience” which will attract a wide (but shallow) audience, and at best hopefully stimulate some interest in learning more; OR

 

- A “traditional-style Museum” which will be of interest and educational value to those who already have that desire and want to further it in greater depth, but who are likely to be uninterested and perhaps even put off by “interactive displays” aimed at the young and by attempts to show relevance to … shall we say, visitors with little or no knowledge or appreciation of British history and culture, whether railway-related or otherwise. 
 

I don’t think it’s easy, and sometimes may not even be possible, to cater for both.  But from the organisational perspective, which is more likely to bring the greater number of ‘paying customers’ (including paying for the catering and its cross-subsidy of the exhibits), and which is more likely to be an acceptable to grant-giving organisations which  themselves may have little direct interest in the subject, but do have - or a required to have - a ‘politically correct’ agenda?

 

Sadly, it may become a choice between an NRM you don’t particularly like but can survive and thrive, or no NRM at all. 

[jjb1970]

I can't express how disappointed I was with my last visit to the national maritime museum in Greenwich.  Nothing to do with politics or anything, it was just so banal, uninteresting and dumbed down. I love ship models, I am not just speaking for effect in saying I see better collections of ship builders models in my day job than at the NMM.

 

I do still like the RAF museums however the Hendon site went downhill when they turned the Battle of Britain hangar into a glorified play area and the lighting and displays seemed to nosedive. Luckily the Graham white factory makes it worth a visit just for that hangar. 

[Oldddudders]

16 minutes ago, Rugd1022 said:

 

I visit London sometimes three or four times a week through work, not the posh or vaguely nice bits but the rather less glamourous environs of Wembley, Willesden or Acton. My mum's side of the family all came from there and I lived there from '83 to '85 and have a real connection to it, but there are parts of it that are still quite grim. I do still love visiting family in Hammersmith and Barnes though.

 

If my numbers ever come up I've promised myself a nice mews house with an integral garage for a Mini Cooper to nip about town in...!

Having worked in Central London for most of the last 20 years of my career, I really love the place, although I never lived closer in than Croydon. Mum had lived in Croydon, went to Willesden High School for Girls in the 1920s, and Aunt Ethel lived in Cricklewood for all the 30 years I knew her. So the NW suburbs also have an appeal, and doing some projects in the former Silverlink Metro area - think WLL, NLL and DC out of Euston - was less of a chore than it might have been. 

 

SW London was accessible from rural Surrey by bus, and Kingston, Richmond and Kew were places I got to know in my earliest childhood gricing days in the early '60s. SE London was where I had a number of SM roles before moving into the Divisional Office at Beckenham.

 

Cities change and develop, particularly in the era of high-rise, but Central London is less affected than the City. Bloomsbury remains a rather sleepy area, and well-rewards a stroll in the various parks. It won't be much different in my remaining lifetime. 

[jjb1970]

I still love London. I worked in Farringdon, then Fenchurch Street and finally St Mary Axe (next door to the gherkin). I get that it's not for everyone, but I enjoyed it. I go back several times a year for IMO meetings and I'd rank London as one of my five regular overseas destinations I really enjoy along with Tokyo, Washington DC, Seoul and Beijing. Helps sweeten some of the other spots I have to visit which I'd happily never return to. The two I would love to be more regular are Hanoi and Malmo.

[Oldddudders]

I see Reform have apologised for the dead candidate in York. The BBC says :

 

"Reform UK has issued an apology after a candidate who had died was dropped by its media team for being "inactive".

Tommy Cawkwell, a volunteer for the RNLI, died after being picked to represent York Central at the next general election. 

However, a spokesperson for the party told the Local Democracy Reporting Service that Mr Cawkwell had been one of 50 candidates who were dropped."

 

But then 

 

"The party said they were "mortified" for not knowing he had died." You really couldn't make that up. 

 

[Darlington_Shed]

Mrs Shed and I are just returned from a long weekend in the Far East - three days in Aldeburgh, Thorpeness and Southwold, which is about as far east as you can get in this country. And a splendid time was had, fuelled by excellent fresh seafood and pies. Ah, the pies!

 

As for London, I've lived and worked here for some 40 years now and still enjoy it. I'd edit the well-known cynicism thus: when a man's tired of life, he's tired of London... and pretty much everywhere else.

[jamie92208]

I spent 8 months in London as a just 18 Yr old, doi g a sort of gap year on £17 per week.  I enjoyed it but have never wanted to go back to live there.  I made sure that my kids got to know parts of it and use the tube etc. I alstook them to Edinburgh.  That was part of their upbringing.  However having spent most of my life livi g in the North of England and now South Western France I think that I had the better life.   I even have a rather large shed. 

 

Jamie

[J. S. Bach]

11 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

 ...snip...  and waving Ukrainian flags in front of the Kremlin.

I do have a Ukrainian flag and there are at least four Moscows in the States, but I really doubt that any of them have a Kremlin so it just might be a wasted effort!

[Rugd1022]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Having worked in Central London for most of the last 20 years of my career, I really love the place, although I never lived closer in than Croydon. Mum had lived in Croydon, went to Willesden High School for Girls in the 1920s, and Aunt Ethel lived in Cricklewood for all the 30 years I knew her. So the NW suburbs also have an appeal, and doing some projects in the former Silverlink Metro area - think WLL, NLL and DC out of Euston - was less of a chore than it might have been. 

 

SW London was accessible from rural Surrey by bus, and Kingston, Richmond and Kew were places I got to know in my earliest childhood gricing days in the early '60s. SE London was where I had a number of SM roles before moving into the Divisional Office at Beckenham.

 

Cities change and develop, particularly in the era of high-rise, but Central London is less affected than the City. Bloomsbury remains a rather sleepy area, and well-rewards a stroll in the various parks. It won't be much different in my remaining lifetime. 

 

It's the ever present weeds, litter and graffiti that put a downer on certain parts of the capital for me Dudders, it just looks so bloody awful. Not a great impression to give visitors and tourists!

 

There are definitely some very lovely pockets of prettiness in places though - i recall doing the London to Brighton Mini run seven times between 1993 and 2013 which meant a very early Sunday morning drive into London to get to the starting point at Crystal Palace, with some very quaint little corners en route and nobody else about to spoil the view. Some of this prettiness / quaintness was captured in films like 'Blow Up', 'Up The Junction' and 'Morgan - A Suitable Case For Treatment'.

 

When I look at old photos of Battersea by far the most prominent structure is the power station, which is now almost completely engulfed in new build glass and concrete offices. Even the adjacent dog's home now has a bland modern office block attached at one end of it. A lot of the 'romance' for want of a better word is slowly disappearing.

 

 

[New Haven Neil]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Are British museums still trying to guilt trip people into making donations?

 

Oh indeed - the entrance to the NRM has a staffed counter that looks like where you pay.  Then you click that it is a politely delivered begging counter, with a transparent box for you to put your 'donation' in, so they can extract the maximum embarrassment if it is paltry.  Disgusting.

 

Which is how I would describe the catering, poor quality and 'delivered', begrudgingly by some grumpy late teenagers who seemingly did not know how to clear and clean a table until prompted to do so.

 

Rant? Bl**dy right it is.  The exhibits were sparse and poorly labelled, the Leeman Road all now closed, the only bit worth seeing was the small exhibits store.  Which has left me with a want to make a 5" gauge wagon, but that's another story!

[Hroth]

I am visiting York at the end of the month, and was looking forward to spending some enjoyable time at the NRM.  I'll still go, but it seems that it will be a scant hours visit, rather than the immersive daysworth I was hoping for.

 

Well, I'll give a cheery wave to the scammers at the entrance and deposit a derisory penny in the collection box in their full view.  I can do that with the minimum of embarrasment, and will probably tell any frowning peon that I may increase my donation if I'm satisfied with the exhibits.  I may also ask if there's a feedback card I could complete afterwards...

 

If I'm really dissatisfied....

 

ION

 

Thunder and lightning, very very frightening!

Flash Bang right overhead!!!

 

[Tony_S]

Here is a calming photo of a loco …

 

 

[rockershovel]

I did enjoy the "Small Exhibits Store", not least because it contains the original mould for the bronze of Trevithick which has stood outside Camborne Library these many years

[rockershovel]

I've just wandered back into the sitting room.. I can't abide the endless parade of "soaps" with which my good wife fills her evening hours

 

Am I alone in being repelled and offended by the sheer nastiness of much of the content? 

[polybear]

2 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I've just wandered back into the sitting room.. I can't abide the endless parade of "soaps" with which my good wife fills her evening hours

 

Am I alone in being repelled and offended by the sheer nastiness of much of the content? 

 

Not one bit.....

[Happy Hippo]

5 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I've just wandered back into the sitting room.. I can't abide the endless parade of "soaps" with which my good wife fills her evening hours

 

Am I alone in being repelled and offended by the sheer nastiness of much of the content? 

Neither Nyda or I watch any of these soap opera thingies.  We even abandoned that Radio 4 classic The Archers about 20 years ago.

[bbishop]

9 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I did enjoy the "Small Exhibits Store", not least because it contains the original mould for the bronze of Trevithick which has stood outside Camborne Library these many years

The website shows this as closed 8 - 15 July.  It really is the only part worth visiting.

 

A group of us used to do research at the NRM.  Stopped because we weren't professionals.  So nowadays there ain't no research.

[New Haven Neil]

2 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

We even abandoned that Radio 4 classic The Archers about 20 years ago.

 

That gave me a smile.   Back when I was the orifice manager of the youth justice team, my boss was a police Detective Sergeant, later  Inspector, who was a bit of a hard lad.  Ex-marine Sergeant, ex-Met Inspector, and even his surname was Hardman.  And he was, but fair and the best boss I ever had.  However - everything came to a halt each afternoon while he listened to the Archers.  I thought it was a mickey take at first, but no, he was dead serious about it.  I never really got the hang of why or how (we shared an office) but one had to sit quietly while it was on. Or face the consequences.  That's him back right, trying to hide.  Me far left.

 

[polybear]

12 minutes ago, bbishop said:

The website shows this as closed 8 - 15 July.  It really is the only part worth visiting.

 

A group of us used to do research at the NRM.  Stopped because we weren't professionals.  So nowadays there ain't no research.

 

I wonder what you'd need to do to "prove" you are a "professional"?  Would claiming to be writing a book do the job?

 

 

 

[Tony_S]

9 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Neither Nyda or I watch any of these soap opera thingies.  We even abandoned that Radio 4 classic The Archers about 20 years ago.

My mother used to really enjoy quite a few soaps. She was always pleased that she could carry on watching them on our TV when she came here. Matthew (then at junior school) asked Grandma if she watched anything cheerful. She pointed out one particularly happy person in one of the Australian programmes she liked. Matthew said he won’t be happy for long. The character got a fatal illness a few episodes later. 
I don’t watch soaps, reality tv or dancing competitions . I am aware of them as they seem to enter the news media. 

[Hroth]

7 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I wonder what you'd need to do to "prove" you are a "professional"?  Would claiming to be writing a book do the job?

 

 

 

 

I expect you have to be vouched for by one of their circle/clique.

 

[bbishop]

At the moment I am drafting an article for the South Western Circle about "goings on" in Great Torrington in 1879.  Members may read it in the December issue of the Circular.  It is just like a Thomas Hardy novel but is all true.

[Northmoor]

20 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

One of the things I am very happy to have done in my youth is take local leave in China in the early 90's. That was the time when China was opening to the world and it is one of the few places I have been which really did feel alien at every level. At that time none of the signage had romanised script under the Chinese script to help foreigners (even today that's not unusual) and English speaking people were rarer than rocking horse turds. Yet some of my most treasured memories are from that time.

 

At the time China was pretty much a third world country, you didn't have to go far from the bund in Shanghai before use of words like squalid would be fully justified. I travelled around by train, bashing mighty DF4 diesels and SS1 electrics in soft class sleepers, which left a (so far) life long interest in Chinese trains. For ID, I remember looking in the galley of the restaurant car and seeing a bloke in welly boots and a blood soaked white coat welding a cleaver with aplomb (a characteristic of Chinese people......) butchering God knows what with the floor awash with guts but the food was excellent and cost peanuts. My attitude was in for a penny in for a pound and all that and while I had a stomach upset once it wasn't serious.

 

I suspect I was the first white person some had seen and it was normal to be properly started at, especially by children yet stares were of the curious kind and the people were remarkably nice and kind without exception. China is undoubtedly a much better country for its people today. People have lives they couldn't imagine in the early 90's,  it's gone from squalid to a condition where it is the western bubble which feels shoddy and a bit backwards in comparison and it is much more visitor friendly in terms of information and ease of getting by so I don't want to get misty eyed about much harder times for people but in a way I do miss at least aspects of the old China.

 

So yes, leaving the usual holiday path can offer rich rewards if people are willing to look a bit differently. 

We visited China in 2000 and it was modernising rapidly by then, but you could still be stared at.  Especially my wife (blond-haired) and Patrick, on our tour group (black), but like you say, it was clearly curiosity; a lot of young men in Shanghai might have not long arrived from the countryside to seek work and we might have been the first Westerners they ever saw.  A group of schoolchildren on a train realised our group were British and sang "London Bridge is Falling Down" to us.  That trip ended in Hong Kong where I'd been four years earlier, so got to see it before and after hand-back to China; it hadn't changed much in that time.

 

We also look back proud of some of the places we did visit when we did - before children came along and made travelling much more challenging - which in some cases are unrepeatable; as well as two weeks in China we went up the Twin Towers in NY, toured the Pentagon (stopped after 9/11), visited New Orleans (for work!) a year or two before Hurricane Katrina, stayed in Tunisia six months after their revolution.  In a totally different context, I have happy memories of a two-week caravan holiday in Ireland in about 1981.  It was such a friendly place -despite Anglo-Irish politics of the time - but unmistakably foreign; in some small towns it was like stepping back to Britain in the 1950s.  Like you say I wouldn't wish that old world on the Irish people, but I'm glad I got to see that very different world before it was transformed by EU infrastructure investment funding.