The Night Mail

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[iL Dottore]

9 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Decimation would make the survivors keener at getting it right.

But would decimation be enough?

Most people use decimation in the wrong sense of almost total destruction, but in the Roman Army decimation was a punishment meted out to a traitorous or cowardly legion and - at random - one in every ten (deci) legionnaires were selected for execution. Often at the hands of the other legionnaires (the unfortunate’s erstwhile comrades) who would stone or beat the condemned to death.

 

So, decimation of Parliament would only mean the (ahem) “permanent retirement” of 10% of the politicians - some of whom I’m sure would actually enjoy beating other MPs to death.

 

Perhaps an “extinction event” should be employed. “Extinction Event” (a term from paleobiology) refers to the mass extinction of the earth’s animal and plant species (Earth has undergone several of these, the worst one ever being the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event which saw the extinction of about 83% of all species on earth).

 

A Palace of Westminster Extinction Event would be appropriate (in more ways than one). Extinction Events resulted in the death of the dinosaurs and emergence of a “modern” earth (at least biologically).

 

Similarly, an extinction event at the Palace of Westminster would see the loss of the (political) dinosaurs and the rise of (currently) minor species much better adapted to thrive in this new world….

 

Edited Friday at 06:08 by iL Dottore
Wording

[Winslow Boy]

There is a slight flaw in our Swiss correspondent reasoning in that given enough time we would be back to square one. You only have to look at the present situation to see this. Therefore there would have to be regular decimations in order to keep the proverbial from again dominating.

Edited Friday at 06:32 by Winslow Boy

[Northmoor]

16 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

When I started developing the Police National Legal Database there were some 2000 charge heading gs.  7 years later there were over 5000.  Most politicians seem to be addicted to passing new legislation rather than using quite adequate existing laws.  It shows that they are doing something. 

 

Considering a major part of Parliament's job is to make law - note that is legislation, not necessarily offences - you would hope there were a decent number of lawyers.  The problem of having too many, like in any organisation, is Group-think.  The solution to any societal problem is to create a new offence, despite in many cases the problem is people committing two, three or more already existing offences.  Why do "they" think the offenders will be deterred by another one?

 

Apologies if I've used this analogy before, but assuming you can solve all society's problems with laws makes no more sense than I, as a Mechanical Engineer, stating that I can solve them all with welding.

[AndyID]

Given recent events I am not feeling extremely optimistic about the future, but I'm 75 years old and I am not going to spend the rest of my days fretting about it. You can call me an ostrich 😄

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

The solution to any societal problem is to create a new offence, despite in many cases the problem is people committing two, three or more already existing offences. 

 

It's simpler, quicker, and a good deal cheaper than making the resources available to address the root cause of the problem. 

[Hroth]

18 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Considering a major part of Parliament's job is to make law - note that is legislation, not necessarily offences - you would hope there were a decent number of lawyers.  The problem of having too many, like in any organisation, is Group-think.  The solution to any societal problem is to create a new offence, despite in many cases the problem is people committing two, three or more already existing offences.  Why do "they" think the offenders will be deterred by another one?

 

Apologies if I've used this analogy before, but assuming you can solve all society's problems with laws makes no more sense than I, as a Mechanical Engineer, stating that I can solve them all with welding.

 

Legislation is sometimes a knee-jerk response to a public cry that "someone must do something about this", in ignorance of existing measures, especially when a high profile individual case (an X's Law) has a lot of media support.

 

The number of laws passed might also be seen as an indicator of the governing parties "virility"...

 

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Given recent events I am not feeling extremely optimistic about the future, but I'm 75 years old and I am not going to spend the rest of my days fretting about it. You can call me an ostrich 😄

 

If you wish, here's a bucket of sand...

 

Or we could form a "We're not impressed by the future" party!

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

Did someone say party? I'm up for it. Whose bringing the booze? And more importantly the cake. If we hire a charabanc I know of a place currently 'empty' in the isle of man. I'm sure the owners won't mind us crashing there for a couple of nights. We can leave him a fiver for any 'damage' caused by HH and PB squabbling over the last piece of cake.

[Dave Hunt]

I’ve just been given a choice; do I want to go shopping in Telford with Jill or stay at home. Hmmmm…

 

Telford - lots of shops and lots of Telfs.

Home - shed, trains, workshop.

 

A difficult choice.

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

17 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I’ve just been given a choice; do I want to go shopping in Telford with Jill or stay at home. Hmmmm…

 

Telford - lots of shops and lots of Telfs.   And closer proximity to you know who!

Home - shed, trains, workshop.

 

A difficult choice.

 

Dave

 

[polybear]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

 

Similarly, an extinction event at the Palace of Westminster would see the loss of the (political) dinosaurs and the rise of (currently) minor species much better adapted to thrive in this new world….

Would you REALLY want the country run by teenagers and twenty-somethings??

 

52 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

If you wish, here's a bucket of sand...

 

Or we could form a "We're not impressed by the future" party!

 

 

 

We could call it the “Right up Sh1t Street without a paddle party”

[SM42]

Part of me is hoping that on July 5th we have 400  independents elected to  Parliament. 

 

Oh what fun we could have watching someone try to form a government. 

 

Andy

[Hroth]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

Would you REALLY want the country run by teenagers and twenty-somethings??

 

 

A 50/50 mix of car stealing dope dealers and treehugging activists. What could possibly go wrong? 🤔 

 

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

We could call it the “Right up Sh1t Street without a paddle party”

 

 

One of those should have been formed immediately after WW2...

 

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

But would decimation be enough?

Most people use decimation in the wrong sense of almost total destruction, but in the Roman Army decimation was a punishment meted out to a traitorous or cowardly legion and - at random - one in every ten (deci) legionnaires were selected for execution. Often at the hands of the other legionnaires (the unfortunate’s erstwhile comrades) who would stone or beat the condemned to death.

 

So, decimation of Parliament would only mean the (ahem) “permanent retirement” of 10% of the politicians - some of whom I’m sure would actually enjoy beating other MPs to death.

 

Perhaps an “extinction event” should be employed. “Extinction Event” (a term from paleobiology) refers to the mass extinction of the earth’s animal and plant species (Earth has undergone several of these, the worst one ever being the Cretaceous–Paleogene extinction event which saw the extinction of about 83% of all species on earth).

 

A Palace of Westminster Extinction Event would be appropriate (in more ways than one). Extinction Events resulted in the death of the dinosaurs and emergence of a “modern” earth (at least biologically).

 

Similarly, an extinction event at the Palace of Westminster would see the loss of the (political) dinosaurs and the rise of (currently) minor species much better adapted to thrive in this new world….

 

 

3 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

There is a slight flaw in our Swiss correspondent reasoning in that given enough time we would be back to square one. You only have to look at the present situation to see this. Therefore there would have to be regular decimations in order to keep the proverbial from again dominating.

A grand total of 132 MP's have stood down at this election, one in five, thats without counting those that will lose their seats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_who_stood_down_at_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

Edited Friday at 10:23 by PhilJ W

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, SM42 said:

Part of me is hoping that on July 5th we have 400  independents elected to  Parliament. 

 

Oh what fun we could have watching someone try to form a government. 

 

Andy

If you have the right sort of people - those who know they have to negotiate, collaborate, compromise and deliver, it can work.  Alternatively you have 400 George Galloways and something resembling the Israeli parliament.  Coalition governments normally formed of politicians with the expectation that they won't get everything done but who will try to get something done*, have run countries like Germany and the Netherlands for years.  Unless I've missed the stories of how their institutions and infrastructure are all falling apart, their system seems to work quite well.

 

*As opposed to the type who expect to do everything they want without opposition, to throw a tantrum if they can't, or to sulk for several years if the other side get to do that instead.

[iL Dottore]

6 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

If you have the right sort of people - those who know they have to negotiate, collaborate, compromise and deliver, it can work.  Alternatively you have 400 George Galloways and something resembling the Israeli parliament.  Coalition governments normally formed of politicians with the expectation that they won't get everything done but who will try to get something done*, have run countries like Germany and the Netherlands for years.  Unless I've missed the stories of how their institutions and infrastructure are all falling apart, their system seems to work quite well.

 

*As opposed to the type who expect to do everything they want without opposition, to throw a tantrum if they can't, or to sulk for several years if the other side get to do that instead.

The "problem" (which isn't a really a "problem) is that in such a political situation (which is the result of PR as it allows small parties into parliament [or equivalent], unlike FPTP) is that you have to be willing and able to listen to your political opponent, negotiate and arrive at a win-win solution, which in the heavily polarised politics of the US and the UK currently seems unlikely.

 

To make up a (unserious) example: would @iL Dottore ("Swindon knows best" party), sit down with @Dave Hunt (Midland Railway Party) to negotiate, when DH has spent a lot of time describing iD and his fellow party members as "delusional, bigoted, anti-red engine swivel eyed loonies" - in the UK's political environment nowadays, probably not.

 

And would @Dave Hunt (Midland Railway Party) ever be open enough to sit down with (let alone willing to share power with) @jamie92208 (London, Midland and Scottish Party), who DH considers as a traitorous sell-out ******* for running branch lines jointly with the GWR. In today's political environment where many favour "political purity" over pragmatism, probably not.

 

In Switzerland, politically, because of PR (and because smaller kantons are given equivalent political weight as the larger kantons in the national parliament), no-one gets everything they want, but equally no-one goes away empty-handed

[Winslow Boy]

That sounds suspiciously like the NHS.

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

 

A grand total of 132 MP's have stood down at this election, one in five, thats without counting those that will lose their seats.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MPs_who_stood_down_at_the_2024_United_Kingdom_general_election

And at least 15 of the last-governing party's candidates are under review about the gambling issue...... The chances are that will not have been resolved before next Thursday, so there is a risk that some of those candidates, if elected, could be suddenly very unpopular with their party, if not those who elected them. 

[monkeysarefun]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

If you have the right sort of people - those who know they have to negotiate, collaborate, compromise and deliver, it can work. 

The preferential voting system means that we have our share of independents in  parliament. Despite the doomsayers warning against voting for them because we'll end up with the parliamentary equivalent of herding cats, that rarely happens.

 

Firstly voters will only pick an independant that is running on a sensible platform and since people pretty much have the same interests no matter what electorate they are in most independents who win a seat will be therefore pretty much aligned between themselves so at worse will form a voting bloc, in fact that is in their interest to do this and to collaborate with the government  in order to guarantee  more than one term in parliament. 

 

At the last election here a fair number of long-held conservative seats in inner Sydney and Melbourne were lost to  independents who ran on a platform of conservative economic values, but with a greater emphasis on pro-environmental policies than the conservative party was offering.  The preferential voting system meant that the leftwing parties all handed them their preferences and they beat the blue-ribbon incumbents. 

 

The most outlandish independents usually come from within the major parties who resign from the party once elected and run as an independant with loony policies, in the belief that because they were elected once then  they'll get elected again, which never happens once they show their true colours. 

Edited Friday at 12:57 by monkeysarefun

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

.......@iL Dottore ("Swindon knows best" party), sit down with @Dave Hunt (Midland Railway Party) to negotiate, when DH has spent a lot of time describing iD and his fellow party members as "delusional, bigoted, anti-red engine swivel eyed loonies" - in the UK's political environment nowadays, probably not.

 

And would @Dave Hunt (Midland Railway Party) ever be open enough to sit down with (let alone willing to share power with) @jamie92208 (London, Midland and Scottish Party), who DH considers as a traitorous sell-out ******* for running branch lines jointly with the GWR. In today's political environment where many favour "political purity" over pragmatism, probably not.

 

I'll have you know that I am a fair minded and extremely pragmatic sort of bloke. It's just that I'm beset by swivel eyed loonies and traitorous gits from other parties who won't see sense.

And I have no problem with foreigners except when they interfere with what I am trying to do - like some Swiss I could mention (who also have misguided ideas on colours for locomotives).

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

39 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

I'll have you know that I am a fair minded and extremely pragmatic sort of bloke. 

 

 

 

I can concur with this statement.

 

I would also point out that any claims that if it's not Midland Railway, it doesn't count is simply not true.

 

The honourable gentleman has, in the past, produced rather sublime kits of locomotives originating from the Great Western Railway, so he cannot possibly be a biased and miserable old bigot.

 

This is born out by the fact that he is quite happy to be listed as an operator when Pantmawr North, (BR(W) and Welsh) goes out to shows.

 

Perish the thought that he would only come to get the free admission and nosh.

[Winslow Boy]

35 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I can concur with this statement.

 

I would also point out that any claims that if it's not Midland Railway, it doesn't count is simply not true.

 

The honourable gentleman has, in the past, produced rather sublime kits of locomotives originating from the Great Western Railway, so he cannot possibly be a biased and miserable old bigot.

 

This is born out by the fact that he is quite happy to be listed as an operator when Pantmawr North, (BR(W) and Welsh) goes out to shows.

 

Perish the thought that he would only come to get the free admission and nosh.

It is my observation after a long period of consideration and pondering that a person will do most things just so long as you keep them fed and watered.

 

As to whether this observation applies to the inhabitant of North Hipposhire I couldn't possibly comment, but I'm certain others on this forum will be only to happy to.

[Tony_S]

14 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

It is my observation after a long period of consideration and pondering that a person will do most things just so long as you keep them fed and watered.

MiL told me that when she was young and the summers got very hot her father would rent a property in a the Himalayan foothills. Some relatives would pop in as they “were just passing’ and stay for a month. 

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I can concur with this statement.

 

I would also point out that any claims that if it's not Midland Railway, it doesn't count is simply not true.

 

The honourable gentleman has, in the past, produced rather sublime kits of locomotives originating from the Great Western Railway, so he cannot possibly be a biased and miserable old bigot.

 

This is born out by the fact that he is quite happy to be listed as an operator when Pantmawr North, (BR(W) and Welsh) goes out to shows.

 

Perish the thought that he would only come to get the free admission and nosh.

I also concur, I was once a regular operator on Hungerford.  Was bei g the the operative word after I sunpbstituted Turbo motive for a King on the Ocean Liner Express,  it was at the AGM of the Green  engine study group.  I couldn't see a problem. 

 

Jamie