The Night Mail

[AndyID]

2 hours ago, BR60103 said:

I understand that due to budget restraints the US revenue service can't afford to hire enough auditors that understand this guy's business systems.

 

 

Al Capone thought he could game the taxation system too but ultimately that's what nailed his arts.

[iL Dottore]

All this talk about tax has got me thinking about the parlous state of the UK and how various parties claim that the country’s dead skint, yet the OECD reports that the UK's current tax level burden is the highest rate on record (matching the 1948/49 tax levy - but without the rebuilding of a nation that came from that taxation).

 

So where’s the money going? The NHS is an endless money pit, always underfunded (and will remain in that state until Britain has a grown-up conversation about healthcare in the UK, and does something about the incompetence and toxic corporate culture seen in far too many places across the NHS), the military has been stripped to the bone, public services have disintegrated and much of the public infrastructure is Victorian and Edwardian and almost unchanged from when it was built. So I repeat myself, where is the money going?

 

Although Switzerland is perceived as a low tax country (27.2% of GDP versus 35.3% of GDP for the UK), personal tax burden varies from Kanton to Kanton, with mostly rural Kantons having a lower tax burden. One of the differences (and possibly the reason why the UK’s infrastructure is crumbling and Switzerland’s isn’t) is that we pay taxes to the Gemeinde (roughly equivalent to a UK council), the Kanton and to the State. These are three separate tax bills with the biggest chunk going to the Kanton followed by the Gemeinde and then the state. This means that both Kanton and Gemeinde raise funds for local needs and don’t have to go cap-in-hand to central government for funds. 
 

Would I pay more tax if I were in Britain? Quite possibly (but not certainly) and as much as I grumble about paying taxes (a common refrain across the world and across social classes),  overall I am fairly happy with the way my tax money is being spent: I have a public transport system which is second to none, a clean and well maintained public infrastructure and public services that work effectively. 
 

The biggest drawback to paying taxes in Switzerland? There is no PAYE, which means you have to set aside a certain percentage of your gross income to pay taxes and the tax departments will send you two bills for each tax year: a provisional tax bill (their estimate of what you should pay based on previous tax returns) and then, after you have submitted your tax declaration, they send you the definitive tax bill (which sometimes means money back, but mostly not).

 

And with three tax departments to keep happy, above a certain level of income, a Treuhand is definitely needed to keep things sorted out - not because the Swiss tax system is particularly Byzantine (unlike the UK and US tax codes), but the various tax departments are always tweaking the rules and regulations, making it almost impossible for someone who only deals with tax matters on an incredibly infrequent basis (i.e. once a year for personal taxes) to keep up with the changes.

[Happy Hippo]

11 hours ago, SM42 said:

I have been tasked with cutting the hedge. 

 

Now I wasn't going to start this evening after all day at work  so I'm hoping for a weather window in the morning.

Then again I'm also hoping for no such opportunity. 

 

Failing that it may be the end of next week by which time it may be fully out of control. 

 

Progress on the West Wing moves slowly on, the first stock cupboard nears completion by my tame chippie,  just castors awaited to make it mobile. 

 

Modelling time will be at a premium as Mrs SM42 has booked up the social calendar till mid September and other household tasks have been allocated, including preparing for the invasion of the in laws in late August. 

 

The West Wing is a critical part of the prep for the latter event so I need to press on a bit. ( there may or may not be some painting involved) 

 

In the mean time it's beer o'clock. 

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

You shouldn't be cutting back hedges at this time of year as birds are still nesting. Between March and August are considered no no times.

[jamie92208]

54 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

You shouldn't be cutting back hedges at this time of year as birds are still nesting. Between March and August are considered no no times.

We get a note from the mayor each spring telling us not to cut hedges till July for that reason. 

 

Jamie

[SM42]

The UK  tax system is a complex old beast, born out of the need to tell the great lie

 

" you'll be better off under the new system"

 

Bits here, allowances there, it's a mess. 

 

Like the benefits system and so many other things in the UK, it all needs stopping and starting again to simplify things. 

 

Whilst PAYE is a good system it is not universal  

 

Tax on savings interest being the latest wheeze, where the bank report your interest to HMRC and they then adjust things to make sure you pay the tax in the following year.

 

Keeps people guessing and they end up with a tax bill. 

 

Not so long ago we had a 56 week tax year. 

My employer was told by HMRC to treat it is as a 52 week year. 

 

In the July we all had a hefty tax bill to pay and I've been playing catch up since. 

 

I could claim tax relief on my charitable donations but I daresay they would find a way that I owe them. 

 

Andy

[SM42]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

You shouldn't be cutting back hedges at this time of year as birds are still nesting. Between March and August are considered no no times.

 

I've checked the hedge.  It's only about 15 ft l9ng

 

No birds.  Still a nice dense bushy hedge if they want to have a go.

 

The numerous neighbourhood  cats, carrion, gulls and  the regular passage of the SM42s along the hedge line keep them away. 

 

It's done now and all I've really done is trim  back last years growth to somewhere near last years line. 

 

Andt

[PhilJ W]

The problem with the British tax system is too many loopholes allowing some (usually wealthy) persons to avoid tax. Yet political parties of all colours are reluctant to close them, why? because the tax avoiders make donations to almost every party. Even the Scottish National Party which is a left wing socialist party received donations from a member claiming none domestic status (Sean Connery).

[PhilJ W]

On a slightly different tack, in the UK if a person is imprisoned for a crime they didn't commit and subsequently are proven innocent they usually receive compensation. The home office then deducts 'board and lodging' from the compensation. If they have been imprisoned for several years this takes a fair chunk out of the compensation. The board and lodging charge should still be retained, for tax and benefit cheats and others who have committed crimes against the public purse but no one else. 

[rockershovel]

3 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

All this talk about tax has got me thinking about the parlous state of the UK and how various parties claim that the country’s dead skint, yet the OECD reports that the UK's current tax level burden is the highest rate on record (matching the 1948/49 tax levy - but without the rebuilding of a nation that came from that taxation).

 

So where’s the money going? The NHS is an endless money pit, always underfunded (and will remain in that state until Britain has a grown-up conversation about healthcare in the UK, and does something about the incompetence and toxic corporate culture seen in far too many places across the NHS), the military has been stripped to the bone, public services have disintegrated and much of the public infrastructure is Victorian and Edwardian and almost unchanged from when it was built. So I repeat myself, where is the money going?

 

Although Switzerland is perceived as a low tax country (27.2% of GDP versus 35.3% of GDP for the UK), personal tax burden varies from Kanton to Kanton, with mostly rural Kantons having a lower tax burden. One of the differences (and possibly the reason why the UK’s infrastructure is crumbling and Switzerland’s isn’t) is that we pay taxes to the Gemeinde (roughly equivalent to a UK council), the Kanton and to the State. These are three separate tax bills with the biggest chunk going to the Kanton followed by the Gemeinde and then the state. This means that both Kanton and Gemeinde raise funds for local needs and don’t have to go cap-in-hand to central government for funds. 
 

Would I pay more tax if I were in Britain? Quite possibly (but not certainly) and as much as I grumble about paying taxes (a common refrain across the world and across social classes),  overall I am fairly happy with the way my tax money is being spent: I have a public transport system which is second to none, a clean and well maintained public infrastructure and public services that work effectively. 
 

The biggest drawback to paying taxes in Switzerland? There is no PAYE, which means you have to set aside a certain percentage of your gross income to pay taxes and the tax departments will send you two bills for each tax year: a provisional tax bill (their estimate of what you should pay based on previous tax returns) and then, after you have submitted your tax declaration, they send you the definitive tax bill (which sometimes means money back, but mostly not).

 

And with three tax departments to keep happy, above a certain level of income, a Treuhand is definitely needed to keep things sorted out - not because the Swiss tax system is particularly Byzantine (unlike the UK and US tax codes), but the various tax departments are always tweaking the rules and regulations, making it almost impossible for someone who only deals with tax matters on an incredibly infrequent basis (i.e. once a year for personal taxes) to keep up with the changes.

Where to begin?

 

We disbursed quite staggering amounts on Covid schemes from "track and trace" to totally unchecked "business loans", very little of which has been recovered. God alone knows what was spent on the "furlough" scheme, or where significant amounts of it went. None of this was planned for. 

 

Some thousands of "covid volunteers" were employed in the NHS, who knows to what purpose....

 

The Civil Service and local authority numbers have increased greatly since Covid, particularly in the DEI sector. 

 

None of these are contributing a brass farthing in real wealth. 

 

Then we have two million immigrants in less than three years. Local authorities are now bidding above the market for hotel block bookings, renting and purchasing accomodation. Huge sums are paid in benefits to people who aren't even in the country. 

 

Our "green energy" plans are an utter shambles. We supply none of the hardware and most of the work is carried out by foreign contractors. Much the same can be said of HS2: we have apparently just won a moderate sized contract for rail track supply to some foreign customer, but its a drop in the bucket. We are bribing Tata Steel to finish the job of trashing our remaining steel industry. 

 

The fiscal governance and resource planning of this country makes drunken sailors on a "run ashore" look like models of probity. 

 

 

[iL Dottore]

Hearing your tales of financial woe, I must ask: You do realise, boys and girls, that for a modest fee I can organise a Swiss numbered bank account (or accountS, I’m not judgemental😀)?

Actually, it’s much better than a modest fee, we’re talking “mates rates”!

 

I can also organise a two key Swiss Safety Deposit Box (the bank has one key, you have the other. Both are needed to open the Safety Deposit Box Door, but once the door is unlocked, and before you take out the box itself, the bank employee discretely retires before you examine the contents). You can have a key and ID set up (you have prove that you are who you say you are) or a simple key setup (anyone who turns up with the key and knows what box the key belongs to can open the box). The latter solution requires you to be absolutely certain about your colleagues/family/friends.
 

Such a box is ideal for storing those souvenir blood diamonds you picked up for a few bob on a Safari Holiday or that Rembrandt Miniature you “accidentally” stumbled across in a befuddled old relative’s attic or even those Provocative Polaroids you took of the political class and the Gentry when they were young, naive and foolish…. The minor, trivial, possessions that some people get really shirty about….

 

Utter discretion, of course, is the byword (if HMRC asks: I haven’t heard of you, heard about you, certainly haven’t met you and I wouldn’t be able to tell you from Adam…)

Edited June 13 by iL Dottore

[rockershovel]

I've been to Switzerland and I certainly didn't perceive it as a "low tax" country, or a low "anything else" country for that matter. I've bought cheaper rounds in Norway....

 

IMHO a lot of people are in for a lesson about inflation. No-one under about 45 years of age in this country knows about inflation; I think they are about to find out....

 

Regarding infrastructure, HS2 gets all the headlines but you might be surprised at the scale of water infrastructure development in recent years. The Tideway scheme; water pipelines in the North and East of the country. 

 

Or look at the new A14 from Cambridge to Huntingdon; essentially one long reinforced concrete structure traversing a route no-one would choose if there was any option, but the volume of traffic from Dover and Southsmpton to the vast distribution warehouses of the Daventry/Coventry "Golden Triangle" dictate it ... along with the Werrington Grade Separation....

 

On a less distinguished note, the M1/M5/M6 nexus was plunged into chaos for several years, at huge cost building "smart motorways" which are now being quietly dismantled as the numerous critics of this quite insane scheme are being shown to have been right all along..  

[iL Dottore]

2 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I've been to Switzerland and I certainly didn't perceive it as a "low tax" country, or a low "anything else" country for that matter. I've bought cheaper rounds in Norway....

Average UK salary (before taxes) £35,724

Average Swiss salary (before taxes) CHF 79,980 (£69,900)

 

So the average Swiss salary (which is always skewed downwards as there are a lot more people earning less than more than the average) is twice that of the UK.  This reflected in prices.

 

Paradoxically, in terms of percent of income, large purchase items (houses, cars) and luxury items are cheaper in Switzerland than in the UK.

[Dave Hunt]

WE had a really good day yesterday. The weather was good (if a little chilly out on the water with the boat travelling at about 25 knots or so at times) and the sea calm. After reaching Beaumaris late morning our first call was at a cafe for bacon butties and coffee before taking a stroll round town and eventually heading for the boat. We saw some puffins with quite bright beaks and the guide told us that the more fish the males eat, the brighter their beak colours are, thus attracting females to the most successful fishers. Apparently they are quite long lived birds and only reach breeding status at about five years of age but from then on are monagamous if possible. We also saw some grey seals and loads of other seabirds.  On returning to land we then checked out the quality of the local fish'nchips, which met with universal approval, before going to the Newborough Warren part of Anglesey for a walk followed by a trouble and idiot free drive home, arriving at 2100. All in all a very pleasant and relaxing time.

 

Dave

[DenysW]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

I wouldn’t be able to tell you from Adam

He's running for MP in Leicester East as an independant. (One or two) big posters up with his likeness on. I assume this has not received widespread publicity in Switzerland?

[SM42]

The faux dishwasher door is off as one of the screws holding it on has obviously had enough of being taken out and put back and is no longer holding on. 

 

It's bent as well which doesn't help. 

 

I'm trying the matchstick glued in the hole trick and am about to set off in search of sone 40mm No 6 screws while the glue dries. 

 

I also need to tie back a rose Bush and deliver a birthday present for the SiL (the UK based one) 

 

Add to all that my back not being happy about this morning's exertions and I'm having a special day. 

 

On hje bright side, my back ache has caused the tip run to be cancelled.

 

Andy

[SM42]

Government spending is like mentioning business, insurance or wedding in any transaction. 

 

The price goes up dramatically. 

 

The apparent bottomless pocket of HM Treasury means things that are 50p in the local DIY shed cost £10 via the government's approved supplier. 

 

I'm sure we could build HS2 or run the NHS* for a lot less if the government ( taxpayer)  weren't funding it. 

 

( *how to do this in practice may need some thought)

 

Andy

[DenysW]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

building "smart motorways" which are now being quietly dismantled as the numerous critics of this quite insane scheme are being shown to have been right all along.. 

But data is never quoted to show/fail-to-show accident rates that compare the choices. If "smart" motorways are so lethal, why isn't there an equally noisy campaign against no-hard-shoulder dual-carriageway A roads? It looks like an identical design to me!

 

I've actually an open mind on this, I just like the discussions to be about facts not opinions. I also remember the M42 before, during, and after it was "smartened" and there didn't seem to be a change in disastrous hold-ups due to crashes (fairly rare anyway), but the congestion did get less dire.

[DenysW]

1 minute ago, SM42 said:

run the NHS* for a lot less if the government ( taxpayer)  weren't funding it. 

Healthcare costs in the USA for the in-work are generally funded by the employer (as insurance) and the user (via an excess system). The insurance will only pay out what is 'reasonable and customary' and can restrict you to the local low-cost provider of healthcare. And it still ain't cheap. And it has to pay for practitioner malpractice insurance and the cost of administering and checking all of the payments. It ain't cheap in the non-NHS world either.

[Tony_S]

52 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

All in all a very pleasant and relaxing time.

It sounds like a lovely day out. 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, DenysW said:

But data is never quoted to show/fail-to-show accident rates that compare the choices. If "smart" motorways are so lethal, why isn't there an equally noisy campaign against no-hard-shoulder dual-carriageway A roads? It looks like an identical design to me!

 

I've actually an open mind on this, I just like the discussions to be about facts not opinions. I also remember the M42 before, during, and after it was "smartened" and there didn't seem to be a change in disastrous hold-ups due to crashes (fairly rare anyway), but the congestion did get less dire.

Aren't motorways supposed to be a higher specification than A roads, with a higher speed limit in accordance? 

 

Anyway, we have a long custom-and-practice of building A roads with dual carriageways and no hard shoulder. For a certain traffic density and cost per mile, they are the accepted solution. 

 

One thing I do know, is that considerable sums gave been spent (principally on the A1) in eliminating right turns across the oncoming traffic - Elkesley and Worksop, for example. So someone is doing the research. 

 

There are a lot of problems with "smart motorways", one being that the hard shoulders aren't built to the same specification as the carriageways. Run main carriageways loads on the hard shoulders and they WILL wear out and fail, sooner rather than later. 

 

The drainage pipes are often under the hard shoulders.....

 

There is also the not-so-small issue that the hard shoulders are used as access for emergency vehicles. 

 

Smart motorways are supposed to be a cheap way of generating extra capacity and guess what. There's no such thing as a free lunch. 

 

 

[DenysW]

3 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

Smart motorways are supposed to be a cheap way of generating extra capacity and guess what. There's no such thing as a free lunch. 

Agreed.

[rockershovel]

2 hours ago, DenysW said:

Healthcare costs in the USA for the in-work are generally funded by the employer (as insurance) and the user (via an excess system). The insurance will only pay out what is 'reasonable and customary' and can restrict you to the local low-cost provider of healthcare. And it still ain't cheap. And it has to pay for practitioner malpractice insurance and the cost of administering and checking all of the payments. It ain't cheap in the non-NHS world either.

The NHS is seriously good value for money. Per Capita costs really aren't bad by any standards. 

 

However it certainly needs a large, sharp knife taking to its staffing costs, in conjunction with a large slice of Common sense. Expecting people to take on £50,000 degree debts to work as a nurse is simply not viable. Nor is expecting people to take clinical speciality degrees without providing a proper professional development structure - the words "full time equivalent posts" should be erased from the recruitment manual. 

 

Nor should we be dispensing immense quantities of anti-depressants with no serious clinical scrutiny. The costs of this are immense, and rarely mentioned.

 

Nor should we provide anything but emergency treatment for persons not resident in UK. Few, if any other countries do this, after all. 

 

Nor should we be employing people to pursue the latest ideological obsessions and quackery. 

 

 

[SM42]

13 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

 

Nor should we provide anything but emergency treatment for persons not resident in UK. Few, if any other countries do this, after all. 

 

 

Is this a thing we do for free?

 

If there is a capacity it makes sense to sell that as would a private  institution, but not at the expense of the day job. 

 

I also believe the NHS was rather slack in chasing payment through EHIC, unlike other parts of Europe. 

 

 

Then there are prescription charges for the patient ( counted as government spending) and the old " free at point of delivery " lie when it comes to NHS dentistry 

 

Well it is I suppose, you pay at reception  on the way out, not while you're in the chair

 

Andy

[rockershovel]

25 minutes ago, SM42 said:

 

Is this a thing we do for free?

 

It is. The NHS will treat anyone who manages to present themselves at its doors. There is no basis in law for it to do otherwise. Nor is there any provision for screening for pre-existing conditions prior to entry. 

 

There ARE, however legal precedents that a person who has entered without a visa, and subsequently managed to receive palliative or stabilising treatment for AIDS (which cannot be cured, only stabilised) is able to resist expulsion on the grounds that such treatment is not available in their homeland. 

 

 

Edited June 13 by rockershovel

[iL Dottore]

59 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

The NHS is seriously good value for money. Per Capita costs really aren't bad by any standards. 

 

However it certainly needs a large, sharp knife taking to its staffing costs, in conjunction with a large slice of Common sense. Expecting people to take on £50,000 degree debts to work as a nurse is simply not viable. Nor is expecting people to take clinical speciality degrees without providing a proper professional development structure - the words "full time equivalent posts" should be erased from the recruitment manual. 

 

Nor should we be dispensing immense quantities of anti-depressants with no serious clinical scrutiny. The costs of this are immense, and rarely mentioned.

 

Nor should we provide anything but emergency treatment for persons not resident in UK. Few, if any other countries do this, after all. 

 

Nor should we be employing people to pursue the latest ideological obsessions and quackery. 

 

 

I agree with your post, except for the first sentence. One thing that nearly always gets overlooked in any debate on the NHS, its future and potential alternatives are the outcomes. And for too many diseases (especially in oncology and cardiovascular disease) the NHS lags behind many other countries, some of which spend less on healthcare per capita than the UK (see: https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/blogs/comparing-nhs-to-health-care-systems-other-countries). And this is despite having some of the best oncologists and cardiologists in the world. The problem is the system, not the clinical abilities.

 

Certainly, a major contributing factor to poor outcomes for many diseases in the UK are sedentary lifestyles, bad diet (rich in UPF) but critically - long waits for diagnosis followed by long waits to start treatment (depending upon where you are in the UK) can literally mean the difference between life or death.

 

Unfortunately, as one famous British politician put it "the NHS is the closest thing the British have to a national religion" and its fiercest promoters are those who have never experienced healthcare (either as a patient or working in the system) outside of the UK. Any attempt to revisit the existing model model of the NHS (free at the point of care, paid for out of general taxation, treats anyone who turns up) is greeted by howls of outrage by people who claim that whoever suggests that the NHS as an entity needs a serious review MUST be in the pay of US healthcare corporations.

 

If the NHS is to survive, then a grown-up cross party conversation must be had. Hard questions need to be asked (and the answers are not going to please everyone) and hard choices will need to be made. Continually pouring funds in to the NHS (the 2024/2025 NHS budget is £164.0 Billion) is unsustainable.

 

No healthcare system is perfect, but variations on the Bismarck system are better than either the NHS or the US model.