The Night Mail

[polybear]

6 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Common practice especially in touristy places as some camper owners will use public car parks rather than pay site fees.

 

The use of height barriers also makes it harder for the metal fairies to set up camp.  Assuming they don't nick the barrier first, that is.

[jamie92208]

Good moaning from the clifftop.  Plenty of large sh1tehawks visible gliding past the windows.. Dorset is cool and cloudy.  The peace will be shattered this afternoon when the SPT arrives. 

 

Jamie

[Winslow Boy]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

The use of height barriers also makes it harder for the metal fairies to set up camp.  Assuming they don't nick the barrier first, that is.

Angle grinders are your friends. So I've been told. I couldn't possibly comment, but would anybody be interested in some steal approximately ten feet long by four inches by four inches that I happen to have.

[jamie92208]

21 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Angle grinders are your friends. So I've been told. I couldn't possibly comment, but would anybody be interested in some steal approximately ten feet long by four inches by four inches that I happen to have.

Is that part of a kit for a shed, asking for a friend. 

 

Jamie

[DenysW]

6 hours ago, BR60103 said:

 If you do not do your own assessment, is it a matter of King John's men coming around and saying, at spearpoint, "This is what you owe." ?

In summary, Yes, and the legal burden of proof is on you to disprove their numbers, which can stretch back over several years.

 

However, as @skipepsi has pointed out, the majority receiving income (including pensions) from UK sources have tax deducted at source.

 

So it's if you have income from property, investments, dividends, foreign pensions,  etc. that aren't taxed at source legally you have to self-assess.

 

It's also a risk assessment: what's the risk of being caught (about the same as speeding), what's the consequence of being caught (severe if the income is noticeable), what's the cost & effort of being legal. Make a decision.

[Happy Hippo]

The British tax system is quite simple.

 

You are paid a salary from a company or business and it gets taxed at source. (PAYE). If you work for yourself or work as a contractor, the you are responsible for paying tax through self assessment. 

 

However if you take a part of your salary and save it in an interest earning savings account, this money, which you have already paid income tax for, is taxed again.  The bank or building society deduct the tax owed (much as the PAYE does).

 

However,, if you take some of those savings and invest in the stock market and receive a regular income stream from your investment, it is taxed yet again. When you sell your investments(at a profit) you are taxed on your capital gain.

 

With the money you have left you invest it in a rather nice house.  Over a certain value, you are required to pay  stamp duty, and when you rent the house out, the income from the rental is taxed again.  You sell the house a few years down the line and are then required to pay capital gains tax on the profit you make.

 

Over taxed you kick the bucket and because you have been shrewd, and made money over a certain threshold, the Inland Revenue plunder your estate for a further 40% with Inheritance Tax.

 

And the government still don't understand why there is a reluctance for investment and savings by some people.

 

They prefer their savings under the bed and cash in hand for any work they do.

 

 

Edited June 12 by Happy Hippo

[Winslow Boy]

46 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Is that part of a kit for a shed, asking for a friend. 

 

Jamie

All depends on what type of friends you have Jamie. If they drive around in large, expensive 4by4's, with 'foreign' number plates then the answer is yes.

[Compound2632]

43 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

And the government still don't understand why there is a reluctance for investment and savings by some people.

 

They prefer their savings under the bed and cash in hand for any work they do.

 

On the one hand, those who are able to invest are generally wealthier than average and hence can reasonably be expected to make a greater monetary contribution to society.

 

On the other hand, any non-essential purchase, and many that one might consider essential, made with already-taxed income is subject to taxation again, so the complaint against tax on savings is unreasonable; most use of your once-taxed income is taxed again.

 

On the third hand (Guardian readers may now wave), it has been made very clear the simply stuffing your dosh under the mattress is sinful, the implication being that it is for the general good of society either to invest it in economic activity or to spend it on the products of economic activity.  

Edited June 12 by Compound2632

[Winslow Boy]

31 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

The British tax system is quite simple.

 

You are paid a salary from a company or business and it gets taxed at source. (PAYE). If you work for yourself or work as a contractor, the you are responsible for paying tax through self assessment. 

 

However if you take a part of your salary and save it in an interest earning savings account, this money, which you have already paid income tax for, is taxed again.  The bank or building society deduct the tax owed (much as the PAYE does).

 

However,, if you take some of those savings and invest in the stock market and receive a regular income stream from your investment, it is taxed yet again. When you sell your investments(at a profit) you are taxed on your capital gain.

 

With the money you have left you invest it in a rather nice house.  Over a certain value, you are required to pay  stamp duty, and when you rent the house out, the income from the rental is taxed again.  You sell the house a few years down the line and are then required to pay capital gains tax on the profit you make.

 

Over taxed you kick the bucket and because you have been shrewd, and made money over a certain threshold, the Inland Revenue plunder your estate for a further 40% with Inheritance Tax.

 

And the government still don't understand why there is a reluctance for investment and savings by some people.

 

They prefer their savings under the bed and cash in hand for any work they do.

 

 

Your not bitter and twisted by how much tax you have to pay at all are you.

[DenysW]

26 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Over a certain value, you are required to pay  stamp duty,

It's your second or subsequent house. You pay stamp duty if you tell the truth. Been there, done that.

 

The US system (30 years ago when I was there) was a variant on @Happy Hippo's summary. If your total income was enough to pay tax, you estimated the taxable amount, and your employer would deduct this. At the end of the year you filed your accurate(ish) return and paid/claimed the difference. The skill was in making the Feds (and the State of New Jersey in my case) owe you a little not the other way round. There was the possibility of savings being taken pre-tax (in a 401(k) scheme) and taxed when you took the lump sump, thus, hopefully paying less tax because you were now retired. As an incentive to save.

[Winslow Boy]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

On the one hand, those who are able to invest are generally wealthier than average and hence can reasonably be expected to make a greater monetary contribution to society.

 

On the other hand, any non-essential purchase, and many that one might consider essential, made with already-taxed income is subject to taxation again, so the complaint against tax on savings is unreasonable.

 

On the third hand (Guardian readers may now wave), it has been made very clear the simply stuffing your dosh under the mattress is sinful, the implication being that it is for the general good of society either to invest it in economic activity or to spend it on the products of economic activity.  

I've got an absolutely spiffing idea. Why don't we just hand all of our money over to the state and they can give us some spare change that they found down the back of the sofa to pay for things 'we' don't need. Oh hang on I think someone's already thought of that.

[Winslow Boy]

1 minute ago, DenysW said:

It's your second or subsequent house. You pay stamp duty if you tell the truth. Been there, done that.

 

The US system (30 years ago when I was there) was a variant on @Happy Hippo's summary. If your total income was enough to pay tax, you estimated the taxable amount, and your employer would deduct this. At the end of the year you filed your accurate(ish) return and paid/claimed the difference. The skill was in making the Feds (and the State of New Jersey in my case) owe you a little not the other way round. There was the possibility of savings being taken pre-tax (in a 401(k) scheme) and taxed when you took the lump sump, thus, hopefully paying less tax because you were now retired. As an incentive to save.

I think that's what the Orange one tried and look where he's ended up.

[DenysW]

1 minute ago, Winslow Boy said:

I think that's what the Orange one tried and look where he's ended up.

The Orange one appears to have run his companies as if they were hobbies and so not have them pay him a salary or dividends, just hand over the profits. And have expensive (and technically, probably) honest accountants adjust the books so that he almost never paid tax. And rely on the complexity of the whole lot meaning the Feds wouldn't have the time & effort budgeted to unravel it and ask for the money.

[Happy Hippo]

38 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Your not bitter and twisted by how much tax you have to pay at all are you.

Not at all.

 

With the financial state this country is in at the moment, then I'd be prepared to make a one off tax payment of £250 per head of the working population to ensure organisations such as the NHS had sufficient funding.

 

But what really makes me angry is  knowing that such a windfall would allow the Government of the day to take this huge increase in their coffers and start splashing it around on other schemes that suddenly come to mind and divert it from the original plan so  waste it like an inebriate in a urinal. 

[Willie Whizz]

The British tax system is essentially supposed to be based on the principle that the more you earn, the greater the proportion of income you should pay in tax. Many would accept that there is at least an arguable moral case that is fair and appropriate. 
 

However, there are two significant issues. The first is that the self-employed are allowed to claim all sorts of “expenses” to offset against their tax bill. Even low earners such as home-based registered childminders are allowed to offset wear and tear of their domestic furniture, so you can imagine what the higher earners can offset. 
 

The other is that there comes a point where the more you earn the more affordable it becomes to hire specialist tax accountants and lawyers who (for a substantial fee) will work out schemes to enable you to pay far less tax than you otherwise would. Therefore your “effective” rate of tax may well end up markedly less than low earners on PAYE. This is (with some exceptions) perfectly legal, but many would argue it is not very moral. Governments of all flavours are constantly promising to “clamp down” on this sort of thing ( they are doing it now in the current Election Campaign) but very little actually ever seems to be achieved - the rich can afford better accounts and lawyers, so the clampdowns are ineffective. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I'd be prepared to make a one off tax payment of £250 per head of the working population to ensure organisations such as the NHS had sufficient funding.

 

About £8bn - most generous of you. Hadn't appreciated your pockets were quite so deep.

[iL Dottore]

On a different topic, I found some FAMILY SNAPS!

 

 

I wonder from which side of the family PB comes from????

 

And this, surprisingly, was in an animated (and operatic) Birthday Card I received on my Birthday last Saturday - I didn't know HH was so multifaceted.....

Edited June 12 by iL Dottore

[Winslow Boy]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

About £8bn - most generous of you. Hadn't appreciated your pockets were quite so deep.

I believe that was the latest request as they say they've run out of money again. This after the £6 Billion they were bunged earlier this year.

Edited June 12 by Winslow Boy

[Winslow Boy]

50 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

 

 

I wonder from which side of the family PB comes from???

Bit concerned that you have photos of PB's family Herr Doctarrie. Just how far back does your 'relationship' with PB go?

[Hroth]

 

55 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

On a different topic, I found some FAMILY SNAPS!

 

 

Its the BEARvely Hillbillys!

 

 

[Willie Whizz]

38 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

I believe that was the latest request as they say they've run out of money again. This after the £6 Billion they were bunged earlier this year.

The problem is, it is a bottomless pit, and will remain so and get even worse and more ossified unless and until there is a fundamental change in the NHS’s structure, use of funding, and operational working practices. I would argue we should not give them an extra penny unless and until a binding review - perhaps a Royal Commission - is under way with that objective. And this time no “stuffing the doctors’ mouths with gold” to ensure their acquiesce.

[Tony_S]

Back to other stuff.

HH posted a photo to help Dave and Jill with puffin plumage. There will hopefully lots to see as we circumnavigate Iceland in July. I thought I knew what the other bird in the photo was but I was wrong and as a result (Google search)  will now be able to identify another couple of seabirds as long as we can see their beaks. We do have binoculars. 

[AndyID]

I was privileged to work in Nu Yoik City for a while when I lived in Nu Joisey. That meant I had to file four tax returns. They were:

Federal

New Jersey

New York (State)

New York (City)

 

So don't whine to me about having to do tax returns 😄

[iL Dottore]

3 hours ago, Winslow Boy said:

Bit concerned that you have photos of PB's family Herr Doctarrie. Just how far back does your 'relationship' with PB go?

The Bear and iD go back a long time, centuries to be exact,

 

During Roman times iD's ancestor - Lucius Titus Caius Medicus - was falsely accused of treason, stripped of his Roman Citizenship and sent to Gladiator School near Pompei. At the same time, PB's ancestor - Mathan Geal Polyix - was sold into slavery by the elders of his tribe after PB's ancestor had been falsely accused of a heinous crime. PB's ancestor was also sent to the same Gladiator School near Pompei. The owner, Phaulius medium horribilis frenum operis, realised that he had a BIG crowd pleaser pairing iD's and PB's ancestors and promoting them as the "Victricis equos ursi et medicus duo"

 

Things came to a head when the Gladiator School owner decided to have Lucius Titus Caius Medicus and Mathan Geal Polyix fight each other to the death. Facing each other in the arena PB's and iD's ancestors rather than fighting each other, joined forces and led a Gladiator revolt, taking advantage of the eruption of Pompei and the resulting chaos to make good their escape.

 

Mathan Geal Polyix. made his way back to his tribe, found out who had lied about him and got him sold into slavery, and exacted a gory, merciless and pitiless vengeance on the scrotes (a mhic an uilc!).

 

Lucius Titus Caius Medicus returned to Rome, and with the help of those senators who were convinced of his innocence and with a few Cohorts of the Praetorian Guard supportive of his cause, also wreaked a merciless, pitiless and bloody vengeance on the matres mendacem.

 

Since then iD's ancestors and PB's ancestors have repeatedly crossed paths off and on to this day...

 

Edited June 12 by iL Dottore
Typos

[New Haven Neil]

What is this capital gains tax you speak of?  And 40% tax rate? Tch. 😁

 

ION, due to some kind of a brain fart the mudelling mojo came to life today, so set off on some finger burning. Cripes, it's been a while.  Can you tell what it is yet?  Those grabs took some doing, that's why the build had stalled really, plus sweating the etched sides to the thicker structural sheets behind.  All done in one afternoon once I got going.