The Night Mail

[Flying Fox 34F]

With regard to Gauge Wars, looks like one may have broken out on Wrights Writes.  No doubt United Nations Gauge Committee will be calling for a cease fire.

 

Paul

[Compound2632]

26 minutes ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

With regard to Gauge Wars, looks like one may have broken out on Wrights Writes.  No doubt United Nations Gauge Committee will be calling for a cease fire.

 

That's entirely down to me, for repeating over there the remark I'd made here this morning about good and bad angles for photography of 00 layouts. I felt it was impolite to make such criticism behind Tony Wright's back. But they got carried away a bit, I think.

[Tony_S]

50 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

That's entirely down to me, for repeating over there the remark I'd made here this morning about good and bad angles for photography of 00 layouts. I felt it was impolite to make such criticism behind Tony Wright's back. But they got carried away a bit, I think.

And then someone mentioned something about a photo not proving trains actually moved on a layout…

[AndyID]

9 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

This was something along the lines that Dave and I were discussing when I dropped in the MRN collection for his perusal.  If you had the space and the funding then a procession of trains along the lines of 'Stoke Summit' would be both satifying and relaxing.

 

The late David Jenkinson did this with his G1 garden line.  Just  up and down lines with a single fiddle area away from the running lines for the assembly and marshalling of trains.  It allowed not only a procession of trains, but also allowed stock from differing countries to be used as the mood took.

 

Again, given time and space and the rather necessary cash injection, I'd like to model the likes of Penallta Junction on the Vale of Neath line. No station or goods yard, but a couple of laybys which allowed some trains to be side lined and overtaken by more important services.

 

 

Failing that, a small wayside asymetrical mileage yard such as the sidings at Faldcaiach would give a similar but much smaller and manageable scenario.

 

 

 

Both diagrams courtesy of the Signalling Record Society.

 

HH, I have a rather vacant baseboard that runs the full length of my 36 foot long shed. You are welcome to build either of those configurations on it you wish to. I will make the tea. There might be cake too!

[polybear]

14 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

And then someone mentioned something about a photo not proving trains actually moved on a layout…

 

Ooops........

 

 

 

[DLT]

1 hour ago, Tony_S said:

And then someone mentioned something about a photo not proving trains actually moved on a layout…

Err yes...  Many years ago a magazine photographer told me that he would be sent to photograph layouts for publication. 

He was interested to see them running, but more often than you might think, he was told they didn't work

[Dave Hunt]

It really doesn't matter what scale, gauge, company, is modelled or whether everything is RTR, kit built, scratchbuilt, a mixture and whether it operates to a timetable, runs round and round, shunts or mainly stands still, as long as the owner enjoys it that's what matters.

 

Dave   

[pH]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

HH, I have a rather vacant baseboard that runs the full length of my 36 foot long shed. You are welcome to build either of those configurations on it you wish to. I will make the tea. There might be cake too!

That was a bad mistake, Andy! HH is looking up flights to Sandpoint as we type!

[DLT]

4 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said:

 

Paul - over on the Narrow Gauge Railway Modelling OnLine Forum (NGRM), David @DLT posted photos almost daily showing how he developed new areas of the backscene and took on board the advice from many fellow modellers until he got it just about right so you can't see where the real buildings and scenery merge into the backscene. Nothing like a deadline to get things moving and thankfully the redevelopment was all completed in time. Perhaps David could add some more photos on the Bridport topic here for the benefit of a wider audience. The use of mirrors at each end also make the layout look much bigger than it really is and means he's had to detail all the parts you don't always see but they show up in the reflection.

.

Thanks very much for the prod Mike, yes I WILL be adding photos to the Bridport Topic here.  The trouble was that I was working against the clock and didn't have time to post on TWO Forums (Fora?)

Working against the clock is a mixed blessing.  It can concentrate the mind into actually getting something done and finished, but can also lead to stress, rushing and making mistakes.  Whats the expression?  "More haste less speed"?

[Dave Hunt]

Once my domestic duties were completed today I got down to the shed (sorry WB) and spent the afternoon doing the green scenery on the layout. The results were:

 

1. About three foot lengths on either side of the layout now sport grass, bushes, trees, gorse, scrub and various other attempts at suitable flora.

2. The rest of the layout is covered in bits of scenic material and needs clearing.

3. About twenty feet of the shed now looks like a green wasteland.

 

I suppose there is some progress in there somewhere.

 

Dave

 

[Dave Hunt]

Oh, dear. Just had a phone call to say that yet another friend has died.

 

Dave

[polybear]

Really sorry to hear that Dave 😢

[TheQ]

If you want inaccuracies of scale try modelling in 1/1000 as I was today. The smallest girder in real life on the radar is about 1ft width,  but the smallest I can model is about 1mm..

[Happy Hippo]

4 hours ago, SM42 said:

 

Isn't it take what you think you need.  Add another thousand pounds and then double it?

 

Andy

That sounds more like an old fashioned bank robbery!

[AndyID]

2 hours ago, pH said:

That was a bad mistake, Andy! HH is looking up flights to Sandpoint as we type!

 

He'll have a 60 mile walk 🤣

 

He might do better to get a flight to Edwards AFB. I'm sure they have some heavy lifters.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by AndyID

[Happy Hippo]

5 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

He'll have a 60 mile walk 🤣

 

The shed is in Rockford Bay 18 miles South of Coeur d'Alene. His best bet would be to fly to Spokane and rent a cattle truck.

I could just drop in...

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[AndyID]

3 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I could just drop in...

 

Be sure to have your water-wings on. There's a bloomin' big lake 😀

[newbryford]

5 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

And that's from our resident pilot who as far as we know never got his mass/volume etc calculations regarding fuel wrong. 

 

Jamie

 

That he admits, or that we know of........

[newbryford]

6 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Yes, unless all the internal and external elements were scaled copies of the proto in the same materiaks there is going to be a significant difference. It's interesting that the numbers are of the same order. I thought the difference might have been much greater.

 

In simple terms, most of  the upward variation for the "scale" model is accounted for by the big die-cast block in the middle,  which would be cooler/ prime mover/generator, surrounded by some air space of the prototype. The negative upscale would be the plastic bogies and body.

 

I wonder what the scale maths would be for the drag/ friction, bearing in mind that models often employ sharper curves and gradients that inevitably cause issues 

[pH]

27 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

He'll have a 60 mile walk 🤣

 

He might do better to get a flight to Edwards AFB. I'm sure they have some heavy lifters.

I was obviously looking at the wrong lake - all those French names confuse me!

Edited November 29, 2023 by pH

[AndyID]

16 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

I wonder what the scale maths would be for the drag/ friction, bearing in mind that models often employ sharper curves and gradients that inevitably cause issues 

 

 

Might be much simpler to find out empirically.😄

[iL Dottore]

My thanks to all for taking the time to clarify and discuss all the variables regarding scaling up/scaling down.

 

I think that the “take-home message” from all this is that for a number of reasons, of greater or lesser magnitude, import and significance,, models will never behave like the real life prototypes. Something I knew, but couldn’t quite put my finger on it in a suitably accurate way.

 

I certainly feel that gauge wars are pretty pointless – I think that the majority of those attending a model railway exhibition really couldn’t care less about back to backs or check rail dimensions.

I think the only questions that really need to be asked of anybody, in whatever scale they model, are the following:

1. is their layout at the level of A) a train set; B) a completely accurate–as–possible replica of a real location, or C) a model “inspired” by a location, or time period?
2. does it work for more than 90% of the time spent in operation?
3. does it convince?

everything else, including the scale in which the model is built, is merely secondary.

Edited November 29, 2023 by iL Dottore
Typo

[AndyID]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I could just drop in...

 

BTW, any TNM'rs who happen to find themselves in this neck of the woods, and there are a LOT of trees here, are more than welcome to drop in. It is a very beautiful area with all sorts of recreational opportunities in any season.

 

[jamie92208]

5 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

 

Might be much simpler to find out empirically.😄

But these days empirical solutions are frowned upon by the modern railway.  The big example that comes to mind is stru ture clearances for overhead electrification.  The BR standards were developed in the late 1950's by slackening an energised contact wire over the chimney of a steam loco with the blower full on,till a spark jumped across.  As far as know there haveIneverbeen any cases of electrocution  by trains, or part of the getting too close to 25,000 volts.however this empirical solution was not acceptable a few years ago when new standards were introduced.  New schemes had to provide much greater clearances to comply with the new standards.  I believe that an agravatingfactor was that a civil servant/politician had neglected to apply for an exemption for the UK. 

 

Jamie