The Night Mail

[AndyID]

8 minutes ago, BSW01 said:

I’ve recently had some photos given to me by my half sister in Canada, that my dad took when we lived there, back in ‘68 or 69’. This one was amongst them, could anyone identify this building please?

7

 

Le Chateau Frontenac in Quebec.

[J. S. Bach]

2 hours ago, Northmoor said:

While I share the frustration at the shortage of RTR "ordinary" EMUs, the reasons why have been debated on RMWeb many times.  There are a number of reasons, including: 

1. Likely cost of a 3/4-car unit is more than most purchasers are prepared to spend on one item.
2. People will generally buy something that excites them, than something that is prototypical.
3. While many classes can look similar, there are often a huge number of variations between batches and classes so it isn't appropriate to produce one Class 305 and just sell versions of other classes with different numbers (the days of Triang producing one DMU to suit all, are long gone).  Tooling up for multiple variants would be completely uneconomic*.
4. A high proportion of Southern-set layouts are beyond the 3rd-rail area, as the commuter belt doesn't interest the builder (see #2 above).  Likewise few modellers want to model 25kV wires and so model main lines beyond the wires.
5. Unless modelling electrified branches, EMUs tend to couple into rakes to make long trains.  So you won't need one 4-car EMU, you'll need two, which brings us back to #1.

So you're probably best off tracking down a DC Kit (other mfrs are available) of the unit you want and building it yourself.  I've a Class 304 just like your photo waiting for me to build it (had it well over 20 years already) but it's well down my to-do list.

 

*The exception to this may be the later PEP-derived and Mk3 units, of which multiple classes use similar bodyshells.  That may be why in N, there is a class 313, which can be simply modified to be a 314 and potentially a 507/508.

Both MTH and LIONEL have done a series of NYCTA subway cars, they are quite popular. MTH offered theirs in four-car powered (one car) sets and two-car unpowered add-on sets. MTH even followed that policy with the R-142s which the TA runs in five-car sets, usually two sets make up a train.

 

MTH also offered a series of CTA cars, my favorites being these 6000s:

 

 

 

And the newer 3000s:

 

 

 

[Chris Snowdon]

31 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I've heard they charge the RTR companies for the privilege of using their liveries....

Yes, I've heard that too, with one company particularly springing to mind.  But I have also heard the opposite over the years, with another company particularly springing to mind.  In a world of grown ups, then surely just asking nicely is the first step, and then if both sides are reasonable...

 

Let's face it, for example, it took me ages to find my Tri-ang Transcontinental Passenger set in full Tri-ang "Warbonnet" livery, but it wasn't ATSF "Warbonnet" livery because Tri-ang didn't have a licence for that - but that didn't stop many, if not most, original owners simply getting to work with their Humbrol enamels to finish the job (for better or for worse)...

 

Hornby were lucky when the LMS agreed to joint publicity for the O-gauge "Princess Elizabeth" in the 1930s - Binns Road's otherwise lovely (and valuable) model includes similar errors to the Rovex OO effort of 20 years later (just squint from a distance).

 

If Simon K is still of this diocese, if not actually this parish, and is not bound by either NDA or professional courtesy, then perhaps he might be able to shed some interesting insight into this?

 

regards

cs

 

 

[AndyID]

33 minutes ago, Chris Snowdon said:

Yes, I've heard that too, with one company particularly springing to mind.  But I have also heard the opposite over the years, with another company particularly springing to mind.  In a world of grown ups, then surely just asking nicely is the first step, and then if both sides are reasonable...

 

Let's face it, for example, it took me ages to find my Tri-ang Transcontinental Passenger set in full Tri-ang "Warbonnet" livery, but it wasn't ATSF "Warbonnet" livery because Tri-ang didn't have a licence for that - but that didn't stop many, if not most, original owners simply getting to work with their Humbrol enamels to finish the job (for better or for worse)...

 

Hornby were lucky when the LMS agreed to joint publicity for the O-gauge "Princess Elizabeth" in the 1930s - Binns Road's otherwise lovely (and valuable) model includes similar errors to the Rovex OO effort of 20 years later (just squint from a distance).

 

If Simon K is still of this diocese, if not actually this parish, and is not bound by either NDA or professional courtesy, then perhaps he might be able to shed some interesting insight into this?

 

regards

cs

 

 

 

The whole thing is (expletive deleted) nuts. In the US you can't sue someone unless you can prove you were harmed in some way by their actions. It's just an example of a bunch of underemployed trademark lawyers scraping the bottom of the barrel. If there hasn't been a test case already there should be.

[J. S. Bach]

It was mainly Mike Wolfe of MTH that forced the issue and got a settlement in favor of the manufacturers. The details are online somewhere if someone wants to check it out.

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[AndyID]

Cripes! It must be Autumn. Thunder is rolling and there a periodic bursts of rain on the metal roof of my annex. Not only that but there are clonks on the roof as fir and pine cones land on it.

 

(I thought it best to not describe it as a shed. No sense in upsetting other members of the community.)

 

Any rain is greatly welcomed here at this time of year as it reduces the chance of the whole blooming lot going up in flames.

[AndyID]

2 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Of course there's always The Clockwork Orange (the original red version shown). Rumor has it they never actually painted one side because nobody ever saw it. The originals were a lot of fun to ride because you could see al the joints in the wooden frame flex in response to acceleration and braking.

 

 

BTW, IIRC those conductors where it says "West Street" were only to provide carriage lighting. Traction power came from a third rail just above the "Please do not throw litter on the line" notice.

[BR60103]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I somewhat remember reading about a situation in the US whereby a major railroad company aggressively went after even little mom and pop outfits for using their logo (and savagely doing so as well: asking for telephone numbers "punitive damages").

 

It got to the point where it was near impossible for anyone to model that particular railroad. Sanity was eventually restored (but not, if I remember correctly, until some legal nastiness had taken place).

 

Perhaps our American correspondents can clue us in?

Two companies that come to mind are UP and Chessie.  There was also something about a non-prototypical "copyright" symbol next to the logo.

 

Compare to 1948 when Lionel persuaded Santa Fe, New York Central and General Motors to each underwrite half the tooling costs of the new F3 diesel.  (well, that is the way I tell the story)

 

[pH]

2 hours ago, AndyID said:

Any rain is greatly welcomed here at this time of year as it reduces the chance of the whole blooming lot going up in flames.

There's a fire has started in Washington State and has crossed the border into BC, just west of the town of Grand Forks. From maps, it looks as if it’s probably going to miss the town on the west, and advance north along the line of BC highway 3, but there’s no guarantee of that.

 

The highway (the only west-east route in southern BC) has been closed. 150+ homes have been issued evacuation orders and over 100 others are on evacuation alert.

 

Edit - reports are now saying over 550 residences are on evacuation alert.

Edited yesterday at 02:43 by pH

[polybear]

4 hours ago, AndyID said:

Cripes! It must be Autumn. Thunder is rolling and there a periodic bursts of rain on the metal roof of my annex. Not only that but there are clonks on the roof as fir and pine cones land on it.

 

(I thought it best to not describe it as a shed. No sense in upsetting other members of the community.)

 

Any rain is greatly welcomed here at this time of year as it reduces the chance of the whole blooming lot going up in flames.

 

Annex?  ANNEX??  You've got an ANNEX?

Jeez, some of us don't even have a G*rage** (rumour has it that some don't even have a Sh*d 😱) yet some on here drop words like "Warehouse" and "Annex" into a conversation without so much as a second thought.....😒

 

**Have I mentioned that?

[Hroth]

Perhaps an "annex" is merely what is called a conservatory in these sceptered isles.  Though I usually refer to the one tacked onto the back of my humble dwelling as the "glass shed", to distinguish it from the ordinary shed, and the garage.  🤪

 

Edited yesterday at 04:49 by Hroth
spelin

[AndyID]

39 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Annex?  ANNEX??  You've got an ANNEX?

Jeez, some of us don't even have a G*rage** (rumour has it that some don't even have a Sh*d 😱) yet some on here drop words like "Warehouse" and "Annex" into a conversation without so much as a second thought.....😒

 

**Have I mentioned that?

 

Well, I had to differentiate it somehow from the 24 x 24 two car garage and the 8 x 12 shed.

 

(I should add that the garage also includes an elevated 8 x 12 room, originally intended to be the railway room but subsequently commandeered as the painting studio. Describing it as another shed seemed just a bit too much.)

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 05:22 by AndyID
moinfo

[bbishop]

8 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Don't tell me, it's because the Midland had a small engine policy.

 

Sheeeesshhh....

 

Dave

Dave, the MR didn't have a Small Engine policy, it had a Nothing Bigger policy. 

[jamie92208]

8 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I somewhat remember reading about a situation in the US whereby a major railroad company aggressively went after even little mom and pop outfits for using their logo (and savagely doing so as well: asking for telephone numbers "punitive damages").

 

It got to the point where it was near impossible for anyone to model that particular railroad. Sanity was eventually restored (but not, if I remember correctly, until some legal nastiness had taken place).

 

Perhaps our American correspondents can clue us in?

 

8 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

I'm not aware of that one. Do you know which railroad it was?

 

As has been mentioned, UP were involved in this.  From memory the lawsuit was aimed at cheap imported toy trains rather than serious model manufacturers.  The Christmas tree type circles of track IIRC

 

8 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Le Chateau Frontenac in Quebec.

Built by Canadian Pacific Railway in their chateau style. Banff Springs and Lake Louise are two others. 

 

Jamie

[iL Dottore]

3 hours ago, BR60103 said:

Two companies that come to mind are UP and Chessie.  There was also something about a non-prototypical "copyright" symbol next to the logo.

 

Compare to 1948 when Lionel persuaded Santa Fe, New York Central and General Motors to each underwrite half the tooling costs of the new F3 diesel.  (well, that is the way I tell the story)

 

Now that you mention it, I do believe it was UP that was the centre of all the brouhaha. An “own goal” if there ever was one.

 

When you consider the utter garbage sold that is bedaubed with logos of (in)famous beers, colas and so on, you would have thought the trademark owner (i.e. the Railroad Company) would be pleased to have free advertising/positive public recognition by having a well made model with their logo on it. 

 

Obviously not.

[iL Dottore]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

 

Annex?  ANNEX??  You've got an ANNEX?

Jeez, some of us don't even have a G*rage** (rumour has it that some don't even have a Sh*d 😱) yet some on here drop words like "Warehouse" and "Annex" into a conversation without so much as a second thought.....😒

 

**Have I mentioned that?

Perhaps I shouldn’t mention that Schloss iD Mk 2 has:

• a garage
• two underground workshops
• a cellar
• a garden annex (that could be used as a shed)

And perhaps it might be impolitic to mention that the workshops and annex are fully plumbed, heated and have a range of power points

[polybear]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

Well, I had to differentiate it somehow from the 24 x 24 two car garage and the 8 x 12 shed.

 

(I should add that the garage also includes an elevated 8 x 12 room, originally intended to be the railway room but subsequently commandeered as the painting studio. Describing it as another shed seemed just a bit too much.)

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Perhaps I shouldn’t mention that Schloss iD Mk 2 has:

• a garage
• two underground workshops
• a cellar
• a garden annex (that could be used as a shed)

And perhaps it might be impolitic to mention that the workshops and annex are fully plumbed, heated and have a range of power points

Bear has just started a “Special, Special List”…….

😠

[Hroth]

39 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Bear has just started a “Special, Special List”…….

😠

 

You'll have to have a list to keep track of all the other lists.

Better start now before you forget one of the older lists...

🤪

 

[iL Dottore]

49 minutes ago, polybear said:

Bear has just started a “Special, Special List”…….

😠

You love your lists, don’t you Bear?

 

I can well imagine, in future, a scenario playing out thus:

 

It is a AA style support session, participants are sitting in a semi-circle, facing a facilitator. A man starts speaking “hello everyone, this is my first meeting and I’m a bit nervous [clears throat]. Anyway, my name is Geoff and I am NOT on a Polybear list”. Choruses of “we understand”, “been there” etc. etc.

 

Edited yesterday at 07:26 by iL Dottore
Spelling

[Winslow Boy]

6 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

You'll have to have a list to keep track of all the other lists.

Better start now before you forget one of the older lists...

🤪

 

Don't worry I'll remind him. Have I mentioned I don't have a sh@d.

[Oldddudders]

My trip to Angleterre got off to a shaky start when I went to book my ticket to Paris online and found my usual train cancelled, just like 8 weeks ago. Odd that. But Plan B quickly kicked in for only another 23 euros, and I am now on a TGV from Le Mans to Montparnasse. Strange, though, that about 10 mins before scheduled time, a loco-hauled set identical to my usual train roared through La Ferté Bernard empty. Hmm. The cancellation was known about a good couple of hours earlier. Oh, well. 

 

One person was quite pleased - it’s an ill wind etc - by the cancellation, as Alison was able to leave her son in bed for another half-hour, and he then accompanied us as his new school is close to the station. Ordinarily she drops him locally to home for the school bus at 7. 

 

When my connecting service arrived at Le Mans, platform 2 was buzzing with people, awaiting the 08.30 TGV to Marseilles. The TGV network does serve other markets than just Paris. 

 

I should be in Torbay before 18.00 BST, but tomorrow we are off on XC to Crewe for the weekend, enabling me, I hope, to join the TNM party at the Stafford show on Sunday morning. The modelling highlight of my year - again!

[SM42]

I don't have a garage. I have a West wing.

 

Licensing of trade marks for use by others is not a new thing. 

 

Making money of someone elses identity ( livery) is always going to cause trouble if done without permission and a suitable pecuniary consideration. 

 

I've told this story before,but when the club's N gauge WCML based layout appeared in the modelling press, we had a letter from Virgin Trains, concerned about what we were doing with Virgin liveried Mk 2s on the layout ( painted by hand as no-one did decals in those says)

 

They were concerned we were making an income from them  and their intellectual property ( basically selling them) 

 

They were satisfied when we pointed out we had produced them purely for our own use, but an interesting lesson in the unlicensed use of a company's identity.

 

Andy

[SM42]

I just noticed I  have managed a modern technology feat that a bear would be proud of. 

 

Yesterday morning at oh my god o'clock, my alarm went off. ( how rude) 

 

Now I had a bit if trouble shutting it up and I've just discovered that somehow I've managed to save a photo of the alarm screen.  

 

??????

 

Andy

[Happy Hippo]

10 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Don't tell me, it's because the Midland had a small engine policy.

 

Sheeeesshhh....

 

Dave

They may have been small, but they were very well formed  (I can't find a condescending grovel emoji.)