The Night Mail

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

 

It's important to pronounce it "Kelvinsaid".

 

Is that from where they had their coal delivered in sex?

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

5 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Is that from where they had their coal delivered in sex?

 

Dave

 

No that's Penarth!

[br2975]

8 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

 

No that's Penarth!

.

Penarth a.k.a. "God's waiting room"

[DenysW]

9 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

14 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Is that from where they had their coal delivered in sex?

 

Dave

 

No that's Penarth!

I thought it was Woking, where creche is something your children do to the car.

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

Brakes work by converting the kinetic energy of a moving vehicle into thermal energy

It is quite horrible when they don’t work. 

[AndyID]

43 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Is that from where they had their coal delivered in sex?

 

Dave

 

And there are no rates there. Maybe a few small maice but no rates.

[Chris Snowdon]

21 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

My children and grand-children have just re-discovered that vinyl recordings are a load of cr.... 😄

Andy's keyboard appears to have censored his entry.  Naughty keyboard!  I can only speculate as to his following keystrokes, but I offer "...edible and long-lasting high-fidelity recording technologies, albeit heavily dependent upon the inherent quality of the recording-medium and the play-back device".

[AndyID]

On brakes: Have you ever noticed how difficult it is to bring a car to a perfectly smooth stop? There's always a slightly abrupt bit just as you come to a complete stand.

 

That's because the coefficient of friction changes to a greater value from sliding to static friction. There's a similar effect with clutches but it's less noticeable.

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by AndyID

[Chris Snowdon]

Cars and braking - Yes.  In my own experience it seems to depend upon two factors, whether the car's transmission is manual or automatic, and what sort of shoes I'm wearing.  My instructor tried to teach me a technique which I still don't think I have right, but basically involved easing-off the foot-brake as I approached a stop and disengaged the clutch, while applying (rather than tugging) the hand-brake.  It's quick and smooth.  The only time I can do this well is when wearing leather-soled formal shoes.  In theory this should be really simple in an automatic, but I don't really get on with those.

regards

cs

TO ADD - My above only really applies to level or level-ish ground.  When stopping uphill, I bring to a stop on the clutch and gear-box before applying the hand-brake, so the car does most of the work in retarding its own progress.  When stopping downhill, the opposite, by using the foot-brake and gear-box to drift to a stop over a longer distance.

Edited 8 hours ago by Chris Snowdon
I'm not a fantastic driver, but not a dreadful one.

[Chris Snowdon]

10 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Well said Sir! Well Said!

 

We who are inspired by Isambard Kingdom Brunel (and others of that ilk), are accustomed to the constant and unceasing petty and jealous jibes of those kleinbürgerlich, pettifogging, narrow-minded, provincial bien-pensant curtain-twitchers, who - because their preferred railways companies eschew copper adornment - delude themselves into thinking that they are both morally and technically superior.

 

Such individuals claim that many believe the way they do - a claim made by the misguided in thrall to charlatans like Gregor Rasputin, Count Cagliostro or Bernie Madoff.

 

We pity them.

I had to look up a translation, but now I realise that perhaps I should "identify" and "manifest" as a "kleinburglich".  I'm not taking "pettifogging", but having trained in law then I'll take "dilly" instead.

As a "provincial bien-pensant curtain twitcher" then well, I need to have a bit of a think about that whilst I feed the fire, drink my 'shine and clean my guns, but before then I shall seek solace with IKB, so I am going for a smoke.

[Chris Snowdon]

6 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

I'm not joking, I leave you lot alone for a few days and when I get back what do I find? Pornographic pictures of green paneers and suggestions that I once produced kits of Greasy Wet and Rusty locomotives as some sort of sop to misguided adherents of such things. Luckily there are those who realise that my sole motivation was to take pecuniary advantage of  those poor intellectually challenged souls in order to fund my missionary work in educating the unwashed masses in the true way of things as produced in the hallowed halls of Derby. 

 

Oh, and welcome to Chris S - let me assure you that although others on thus thread may hold inflexible views on some matters, I am certainly not one of them.

 

Just don't mention the Midland's small engine policy, that's all.

 

Or pannier tanks.

 

Or Flying Scotsman.

 

Dave

Dave - thanks for your welcome.

Oh, I don't mind inflexible views and indeed I tend to model in set-track because the geometry is so much simpler to calculate.

I understand that there are Rules of Engagement on this thread, and so I promise never ever to mention that in my humble opinion, the Midland's small engine policy was as short-sighted as the 5h17-5h0w which became Crossrail, nor my opinion that the Panny is (as much as the Jinty was, and the 08 nearly was) for most children the cheapest and easiest way into the hobby, in the hope that they will progress to The Craft, nor the fact that I absolutely love my "Flying Scotsman" because it's got a glowing firebox and a chuff-chuff-tender.  However, if it is acceptable, then I am fond of EM2s and fascinated by Raven's plans for electrifying the ECML @1.5kVDC before The Great War, and if so pressed I will admit to those, but obviously only if the Rules of Engagement permit so.

I'm off for another seance with IKB.

regards

cs

[PhilJ W]

On 19/09/2024 at 14:54, PhilJ W said:

There is a model container ship that is 1/76 scale available. It's produced by Deans Marine and represents a coastal vessel. The model is 1.1 metres long (3' 8") so should fit a standard baseboard.

 

On 19/09/2024 at 15:09, SM42 said:

 

You could get 2 on the dining room table. 

 

 What livery choices are there? 

 

Andy

 

On 19/09/2024 at 15:11, PhilJ W said:

It's a kit, whatever livery you want.

https://deansmarine.co.uk/shop/index.php/cPath/10_20

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

On brakes: Have you ever noticed how difficult it is to bring a car to a perfectly smooth stop? There's always a slightly abrupt bit just as you come to a complete stand.

 

That's because the coefficient of friction changes to a greater value from sliding to static friction. There's a similar effect with clutches but it's less noticeable.

 

 

Also, while the coefficient of friction and contact area are pretty constant in brakes irrespective of speed, tyres on tarmac behave very differently.  Weight transfer at high speed isn't significant, but as speed falls it is possible to brake harder and harder (such that it is possible to briefly achieve 1G deceleration in most modern road cars*).  It's more visible on racing motorbikes where the rider sits  up as they hit the brakes to transfer their weight over the forks (and to act as an air brake) while it is possible to produce a "stoppie" where the back wheel is in the air.  The effect is even greater on wet tarmac where at speed the tyre increasingly rolls over a layer of water instead of pushing it out of the way.

 

Racing cars have to try to compensate for the reduced braking performance at high speed by using wings to produce downforce (although they also produce drag), which create larger contact areas on the tyres and counteract the tyre growth at speed, which is trying to do the opposite.

 

*One of the great improvements in cars is in braking performance.  "They don't make 'em like they used to - thank God".  I love Morris Minors but trying to stop in an emergency would be only slightly slower by applying in writing for permission to stop.

[Happy Hippo]

2 hours ago, Tony_S said:

It is quite horrible when they don’t work. 

I had the left hand brake line snap on a display jump into HQ British Forces Antwerp. 

 

It was akin to trying to land an aircraft with only the right hand side flaps operating.

 

Since I was carrying a bottle of HoC whisky, signed by MT and the rest of the vegetables, landing off scene was not really an option.

[Chris Snowdon]

10 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Also, while the coefficient of friction and contact area are pretty constant in brakes irrespective of speed, tyres on tarmac behave very differently.  Weight transfer at high speed isn't significant, but as speed falls it is possible to brake harder and harder (such that it is possible to briefly achieve 1G deceleration in most modern road cars*).  It's more visible on racing motorbikes where the rider sits  up as they hit the brakes to transfer their weight over the forks (and to act as an air brake) while it is possible to produce a "stoppie" where the back wheel is in the air.  The effect is even greater on wet tarmac where at speed the tyre increasingly rolls over a layer of water instead of pushing it out of the way.

 

Racing cars have to try to compensate for the reduced braking performance at high speed by using wings to produce downforce (although they also produce drag), which create larger contact areas on the tyres and counteract the tyre growth at speed, which is trying to do the opposite.

 

*One of the great improvements in cars is in braking performance.  "They don't make 'em like they used to - thank God".  I love Morris Minors but trying to stop in an emergency would be only slightly slower by applying in writing for permission to stop.

There's a lot in this.  Weight-transfer at high speed can be a contributing factor, and tarmac as a generic material doen't reflect the Cd or Cf of the surface itself.  As a child of the '80s:  Our village was once (well, several times, but for the purposes of this story, once) snow-bound.  We got out of the village, but then got stuck and had to turn back.  A SAAB 9000 driver was in the same mess and reckoned that our little Metro had a better chance of getting home, ours being a a lighter car (an hour later, we'd managed that quarter-mile and he hadn't, so I suppose he was proven right).  Downforce really didn't matter at 12mph, we needed to keep in as high a gear as the engine's torque would permit, rather than panicking and spinning the front wheels, and my sack of meat and bones didn't really add anything until I got out and walked.  We didn't have chains.

 

At the same time, BMW's 5 and 7-series, especially the 7-series, were hard to control if driven hard in the wet, Ford's Sierra and Granada I was told were even worse, and all four of these were utterly hopeless on snow.  But they were all great on dry roads, especially where the tarmac was the "sharp" sort with something to bite into.  Those machines all had something like 70-30 F-R distribution, and  relied upon good steering and a lot of rear-end to keep them going accurately at speed.  The mid-'80s fad for 4*4 road-going cars (Ford and Vauxhall, you know who you are) reflected concerns about that.

 

Radial-ply and cross-ply tyres should be discussed elsewhere, because that also reflects the structure as well as the tread-pattern, and the differences between disc/drum and disc/disc brakes when applied to F/F, F/R, Mid and 4*4 transmissions is also another discussion.  But I need to throw some more tyres on the fire as I continue to roast my fox.

 

And now, I suppose, we need to bring in the regenerative aspects of EVs, and the different sorts of water, slurry or salt-solutions they might be driven through!

 

regards

cs

[Chris Snowdon]

27 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I had the left hand brake line snap on a display jump into HQ British Forces Antwerp. 

 

It was akin to trying to land an aircraft with only the right hand side flaps operating.

 

Since I was carrying a bottle of HoC whisky, signed by MT and the rest of the vegetables, landing off scene was not really an option.

Please confirm that this was all part of a carefully-concocted HMT plot, as a diversionary tactic for a diamond-heist!

 

(BTW, good use of the comma - moving it right would suggest that you had the vegetables in the back and you were supposed to tip them out.  Happy memories of Spitting Image)

 

More-seriously, I couldn't have done your job, although even now I like to think that I could have done a slightly-tidier job than Captain Kangaroo who bounced us along most of LHR 90R on the LHS main-gear, without getting the rest of it onto the black stuff until the end.

 

No flaps, no reversal... I'll take a landing in Sumburgh when the cross-wind is 50kt (as pax, again).

 

regards

cs

 

[J. S. Bach]

1 hour ago, Chris Snowdon said:

Dave - thanks for your welcome.

 ...snip... absolutely love my "Flying Scotsman" because it's got a glowing firebox and a chuff-chuff-tender.   ...snip...

regards

cs

Chuffing tenders? I am not much of a steam fan but with the few real ones that I have been around, the chuffing seemed to come from somewhere further forward!

[Chris Snowdon]

The chuff-chuff-tenders are utterly great if you can't afford digital sound, but are also monstrously innaccurate for anything sonic (although visually, they are OK as 1960s mouldings).  Even starting with a simple 2-cyl they sound "odd" let alone a 4-cyl or conjugated 3-cyl, but after a long week at one's toil, then just sitting and watching these things trundle around a simple loop, going "chuff-chuff", really doesn't matter.  When I read English Literature we were often told about the need to "suspend disbelief", but I admit that a glass of port helps.  Although a Bloody Mary helps more.

 

BTW, they are also absolute 84574rd5 to set up correctly to make that ~2Hz "chuff"!  The chaps at Margate were using some really precise pieces.  I tried to restore one and am still far from happy with it after using the wrong spring-tension and the wrong grit of sand-paper.  This brings us back all the way back to that discussion about friction...

 

regards

cs

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[AndyID]

1 hour ago, Chris Snowdon said:

Please confirm that this was all part of a carefully-concocted HMT plot, as a diversionary tactic for a diamond-heist!

 

(BTW, good use of the comma - moving it right would suggest that you had the vegetables in the back and you were supposed to tip them out.  Happy memories of Spitting Image)

 

More-seriously, I couldn't have done your job, although even now I like to think that I could have done a slightly-tidier job than Captain Kangaroo who bounced us along most of LHR 90R on the LHS main-gear, without getting the rest of it onto the black stuff until the end.

 

No flaps, no reversal... I'll take a landing in Sumburgh when the cross-wind is 50kt (as pax, again).

 

regards

cs

 

 

One of our neighbors couldn't get up his driveway to the main road in the snow. It was a FWD car. I told him to turn it and reverse up the driveway. He didn't believe it would make any difference but he tried it anyway. And, of course, it worked 😄

[TheQ]

Over 45 years ago I was involved with a 24 hour radio amateur competition, since the club house was down on the marshes that wasn't a good transmission point. So a place up on the Mendips was chosen.. up a very dry dusty  1 in 3 green lane... I had to reverse my FWD car up the hill to get there...

 

[iL Dottore]

7 hours ago, AndyID said:

On brakes: Have you ever noticed how difficult it is to bring a car to a perfectly smooth stop? There's always a slightly abrupt bit just as you come to a complete stand.

I read, somewhere, the claim that - in the early days of motoring - whenever any of the gentry bought a Rolls Royce it came with a driving course for the gentry’s chauffeur - so that the chauffeur could learn how to brake, accelerate and come to a stop smoothly.

 

Apparently, a well trained and proficient chauffeur could bring a RR Silver Ghost to a complete stop without anyone in the back spilling a drop of their G&T/Champagne/Pimms.

 

And now we have Uber…..

[iL Dottore]

4 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

One of our neighbors couldn't get up his driveway to the main road in the snow. It was a FWD car. I told him to turn it and reverse up the driveway. He didn't believe it would make any difference but he tried it anyway. And, of course, it worked 😄

OK, Andy, clue me in.

 

I get reversing up the driveway in a car with rear wheel drive (traction ‘n’ all that), but a FWD? Surely tractive effort would be the same moving forward and backwards. Unless it is the gearing/gear ratio when going in reverse that makes the difference?

 

I really have no clue, please enlighten me.

[iL Dottore]

6 hours ago, Chris Snowdon said:

Dave - thanks for your welcome.

A few words about our esteemed, tame,  Air Vice Marshall DH.

 

He a very experienced individual (as so he should be, having started his RAF career flying Sopwith Camels for the RFC) with a wealth of knowledge about all matters aviation and railway related, he is definitely a go-to-person if you have questions of a flying or Midland Railway related nature.

 

However, although DH is, by any definable yardstick, a “Top Bloke”, he does have his foibles - one of particular note is his pathological aversion to the G**** W****** R******. Once, at a Brains Trust meeting he attended, praise was heaped on the railway company We Do Not Name, At such utterances the good Wing Commander went a very unusual colour (a colour I had previously thought as biologically impossible in humans) and we had to rapidly ply him with all kinds of pills, potions and nostrums and much not inconsiderable medical skill was applied in order to prevent him from “crashing and burning” (so to speak).

 

Anyway, CS, the above is a rather round-about way of getting to the “Welcome To TNM” bit. 

 

The TNM is a beacon of sanity in an otherwise insane world*

 

* please note that “sanity” and “normality” are not always mutually inclusive