The Night Mail

[rockershovel]

10 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

That’s definitely an issue. Call me a jaded old cynic if you will, but I think as long as you are being creative in the ways that you can say “red is actually green, if it wants to be“, you can be as “independent minded” and “creative“ as you wish. But if you dare say, for example, “well, no. Red is Red” God help you.

There’s a certain groupthink that has taken over much of media and politics, whereby everyone buys in to the same concepts, with absolutely no room or even tolerance for dissent or dissenting views. To make a non-political, but illustrative example, if groupthink dictates that “tinned baked beans are the best food ever”. Not only can’t you say that “maybe tinned beans aren’t that good after all“, but to suggest an alternative – such as “tinned goulash is much better than tinned beans“ is to render you an outcast (an ***ist) with unspeakable views, no matter if the evidence shows more people buy and eat tinned goulash than tinned beans.
 

As I said before, they may be all singing different arias but they’re all singing in the same opera.

Quite so. Orwell summarised it as " given the freedom to say that two plus two equals four, all else follows" by which he meant that objective reality is the foundation of rational thought, which seems to be pretty much your point? 

 

I don't eat tinned goulash. My personal, subjective view is that it is quite disgusting stuff; but a Founding Father of the USA* would defend to the death your right to do so and I would allow myself to be numbered among those who more-or-less agree 

 

* turns out that it was Voltaire; it also appears that he said no such thing, but it was attributed to him long after his death 

Edited August 31 by rockershovel

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

I don't believe employers are involved in setting policy on this level 

 

What policy would that be?

[rockershovel]

12 hours ago, Tony_S said:

I can think independently and think what you have stated is not true.

Even before higher education as one example, secondary school history is more about analysing sources than remembering dates and names of monarchs.

 

Sellers and Yateman famously defined history as consisting of "All the Things You Can Remember, including Two Genuine Dates" along with an assortment of Good Things and Bad Things. 

 

It saddens me to observe that my three children are quite unable to understand this seminal work, lacking the education (in the wider sense) to do so

[rockershovel]

Since that ghastly old fraud Chomsky has been mentioned, I'll offer R H Tawney in return.

 

Tawney is largely forgotten now, but for an analysis and avatar of the transition of Socislism in the English speaking world from its Nonconformist Protestant roots to a blindly ideological movement, Tawney (and his acolyte Roy Hattersley) are essential reading. 

 

[iL Dottore]

9 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

I have never seen canned goulash. Too bad (if you were being serious, that is) as I would definitely have tried it.

It is available (at least ‘round here) and it’s every bit as bad as tinned baked beans (or good - depends upon your tolerance for UPF).

 

I tried it once….

 

Schotty ate well that day

[AndyID]

45 minutes ago, rockershovel said:

that two plus two equals four

 

Where I come from it equals 100

[iL Dottore]

9 hours ago, DenysW said:

On a quick trawl on the (UK) Interweb, definitely avoid the stuff marketed as dogfood for £4. The 500 ml jars at £8 might be edible. @iL Dottore - come on - several hungry nations look to you!

Despite Mrs iD's vet friend's late husband being Hungarian, I know very little about Hungarian food (or Eastern European food in general to be honest*), but I do know that what in Western Europe people call "Goulash" is nothing like what the Hungarians call "Goulash"

 

Tony's comment about the spiciness of Goulash surprised me. I've never found Hungarian food to be particularly spicy. Yes, Goulash does (or should) contain paprika, but it's sweet paprika - slightly less intense than freshly ground black pepper.

 

One thing I have found about Eastern European food is that it is (usually) abundant and hearty. And when there's not much between you and the Urals, abundant and hearty is a must.

 

As much as I like and appreciate refined French cuisine, sometimes you just NEED a good slab of pig and plenty of fried potato products!

 

Schweinshaxe mit kartoffelpuffer. although not specifically Eastern European are seen in variations across that part of the world. And Will Do Nicely for Lunch

 

* from my limited exposure to Eastern European cuisine, I conclude that it's heavily based upon pig products and potatoes - which is No Bad Thing, in my opinion. It also involves cabbage a lot, which is also cool!

[Oldddudders]

9 hours ago, Tony_S said:

Back when my son was in year 8 part of the curriculum was called food technology.For homework one week the students had to find a packet/ready meal, list the  ingredients and find out what they were.  The only packet meal he could find was the dog’s lamb and rice kibble. So he listed that. At first his teacher was “not amused” but he said his family didn’t have stuff like pot noodles or similar products, and she forgave him. 

Teacher arrogance/ignorance, or human failings if you want to be kind. Like the primary school teacher who told me my depiction of the Boat Race with each rower having one oar was obviously wrong - they each had two. His headmistress, reading Tom Sawyer to us, was asked what hookey is? "Some sort of American game." And the history teacher, when I was about 13, who was trying to get me to talk about some aspect of a C of E service - my family were atheists, so I had no idea. Mind you, when, a couple of years later, the RI teacher engaged in debate about religion, I was happy to join in - I knew what I didn't believe. It was 40 years later that I discovered that this man, married with children, had given Sherry a passionate embrace and kiss when she was a 6th-former. 

[DenysW]

36 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Where I come from it equals 100

I presume from the binary 10 +10 = 100?

 

I once was into 5 times 2 is A, 6 times 2 is C, etc. but I no longer have to think like that.

[jamie92208]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

Sellers and Yateman famously defined history as consisting of "All the Things You Can Remember, including Two Genuine Dates" along with an assortment of Good Things and Bad Things. 

 

It saddens me to observe that my three children are quite unable to understand this seminal work, lacking the education (in the wider sense) to do so

The best history book ever written. 

 

Jamie

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, jamie92208 said:

The best history book ever written. 

 

Jamie

Certainly the most accessible. 

[iL Dottore]

15 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Schweinshaxe mit kartoffelpuffer. although not specifically Eastern European are seen in variations across that part of the world.

Unquestionably THE best Schweinshaxe mit Kartoffelpuffer I've ever had was at the Schweizerhof in the Prater in Vienna.

 

Normally it's served with kartoffelsalat (which - as with plain boiled potatoes - I heartily dislike), but you can order it with kartoffelpuffer - a potato pancake variant along the line of Rösti.

 

The Schweinshaxen are first boiled (I think) then (definitely) deep fried.

 

So, Schweinshaxe mit Kartoffelpuffer - plenty of fried crunchy goodness (which cries out to be washed down with "ein Grosses" or three).

 

You can keep the cheap pizza and tinned baked beans, give me pig and potato any day....

 

Edited August 31 by iL Dottore
Wording

[polybear]

8 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

You can keep the cheap pizza and tinned baked beans, give me pig and potato any day....

 

 

Bear rather likes Smokey Bacon Crisps too......

[polybear]

52 minutes ago, AndyID said:

Where I come from it equals 100

 

2 + 2?

 

Easy - it's 22.

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

2 + 2?

 

Easy - it's 22.

I think there may be a catch,,,,.,

[rockershovel]

13 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

Unquestionably THE best Schweinshaxe mit Kartoffelpuffer I've ever had was at the Schweizerhof in the Prater in Vienna.

 

Normally it's served with kartoffelsalat (which - as with plain boiled potatoes - I heartily dislike), but you can order it with kartoffelpuffer - a potato pancake variant along the line of Rösti.

 

The Schweinshaxen are first boiled (I think) then (definitely) deep fried.

 

So, Schweinshaxe mit Kartoffelpuffer - plenty of fried crunchy goodness (which cries out to be washed down with "ein Grosses" or three).

 

You can keep the cheap pizza and tinned baked beans, give me pig and potato any day....

 

Bangers and mash, with onion gravy. 

 

Cabbage is not a delicacy in UK. When I first worked in Azerbsijan (2000-ish) there were attempts to serve local cuisine in hotels. After a while they worked out that the Brits couldn't be persuaded to eat cabbage (except as bubble and squeak) and moved over to a more "Turkish" style of catering. 

 

The English way of cooking cabbage resembles a boiled dishcloth. It is a "poverty food" which tastes vaguely metallic and gives you wind, and doesn't even leave you feeling full. It is sometimes euphemised as "greens" along with other boiled tops of root vegetables best used as animal feed. 

 

 

[rockershovel]

Regarding dog food, it was generally believed that some people ate it... it smells awful.

 

I don't care to speculate on its content... Is that why dogs lick their nether regions, to get rid of the taste? 

[Winslow Boy]

37 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Bear rather likes Smokey Bacon Crisps too......

Are those the crinkle ones my dear bear? We do have to keep things accurate.

 

For you see come the revolution, we the shed less shall be in charge and it will be handy to have a list of things that we won't be banning.

[Winslow Boy]

32 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

I think there may be a catch,,,,.,

Only if you want a gate.

[SM42]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

 

Schweinshaxe mit kartoffelpuffer. although not specifically Eastern European are seen in variations across that part of the world. And Will Do Nicely for Lunch

 

* from my limited exposure to Eastern European cuisine, I conclude that it's heavily based upon pig products and potatoes - which is No Bad Thing, in my opinion. It also involves cabbage a lot, which is also cool!

 

Poland"s equivalent would be either kotlet schabowy ( AKA pork in breadcrumbs) or schab a piece of pork, flattened and fried / roasted. 

 

Another popular dish is golonka ( pork knuckle 

 

Generally they all  come with mash ( a form of potato I have gone off of late. I want something something can chew whilst I still have my own teeth)

Although fried potato chunks or fries can be an option. 

 

Cabbage comes in the form of bigos ( hunters stew) mostly made of sauerkraut, onions and bits of leftover meat, sausage etc. 

 

It's simple quisine, very filling and very tasty. 

 

Pork products are very popular in Poland 

 

Chicken and turkey probably hot on its heels, beef less so, lamb almost unheard of. 

Fish both sea and fresh water are also widely available. 

 

 

It's still BBQ season ( czas na grilla) so lots of pork products will be sizzling away across the land today and now doubt vodka will be flowing to aid digestion.

 

Andy

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, iL Dottore said:

Tony's comment about the spiciness of Goulash surprised me.

It was in reference to Aditi thinking it was too hot. She had a low tolerance for peppers including paprika. It causes much amusement, when I ask whether something has 4 or 5 chilli flakes in it. 

[Tony_S]

1 hour ago, SM42 said:

Poland"s equivalent would be either kotlet schabowy

Matthew was attempting to sample all the cuisine of what he called Central Europe from Baltic to Balkans. His trips to the Balkans involved much meat and huge portions generallly. When he was in Dublin he interviewed a lot of Polish people in cafes so ate much Polish cuisine. 

[jjb1970]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

As with much of his output, Chomsky was simply plagiarising other things said long before. 

 

See Orwell's essay on the subject of the control of thought through the  politicisation of language, which lays the groundwork for his two final novels. 

 

Chomsky is a writer I don't always agree with, sometimes I profoundly disagree, but I find him eloquent and stimulating and he presents his ideas clearly. To me his biggest fault is he always seemed to view the world very much in the context of US politics and intervention, losing sight of the facts that other players had agency and influence.  However,  a very gifted man.

[jjb1970]

On pork, I  once had a meeting with a young lady working for a green NGO who was going to China to tell them to stop eating pork. My thought was good luck with that given how popular pork is in China.

[SM42]

2 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

On pork, I  once had a meeting with a young lady working for a green NGO who was going to China to tell them to stop eating pork. My thought was good luck with that given how popular pork is in China.

 

I hope she wasn't flying there. 

 

Andy