The Night Mail

[J. S. Bach]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

May I ask? Were the aircraft you flew also suitably "steampunk" retro?

Compared to today's aircraft, that might not be too far off a statement.

 

 

Edited June 6 by J. S. Bach
To correct a typo

[iL Dottore]

I just realised, 1948 has come and gone for TNM.

 

I wonder if it's been Nationalised?

 

BNM (British Night Mail) anyone?

[AndyID]

8 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

And with small servos being so cheap, you can afford to burn out a few until you get things right!

 

 

I can buy 30 for $29.99. Free shipping too.

😄

[Tony_S]

37 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

I can buy 30 for $29.99. Free shipping too.

😄

20 for £3.87 with free shipping from a well known Chinese site. But probably not as good as US made ones!

[J. S. Bach]

Maybe, maybe not, but they would be good enough to see if servo properties and operation are what you might want to use in a permanent setup.

[J. S. Bach]

12 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

20 for £3.87 with free shipping from a well known Chinese site. But probably not as good as US made ones!

Maybe, maybe not, but they would be good enough to see if servo properties and operation are what you might want to use in a permanent setup.

 

Me, I plan on using Caboose Industries ground throws where ever possible.

https://www.cabooseind.com/

I need to sit down and draw out the linkage for a crossover using just one ground throw.

 

[jjb1970]

12 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

The Kato controllers sound interesting. Considering how inexpensive electronic components are these days I'm amazed at how expensive a lot of the controllers on the market are 😀

 

 

 

Prices for Japanese N gauge models and accessories are very attractive compared to European and North American N. Partly it's a design clever type approach to models and partly economies of scale.

 

The Japanese take a different approach to model railways in N, with less focus on detail and more impressionism. They don't bother with details which won't be seen and put detail where it makes a difference. It's basically what Hornby tried to do, but Kato and Tomix pulled it off more successfully. The philosophy seems to be to get shape and contours right (and some Japanese trains have crazy contours) and for it to look right on a layout. They don't really go for trick features either. The hobby is predominantly analogue, sound is a small niche and pantograph are possible rather than sprung.

 

Where they don't economise is mechanisms, which are superb.

 

The size of the Japanese N hobby is huge. Apparently minimum production for Kato to produce a model is 10,000 units, that's for a catalogue item, not use of tooling (such as five items of 2000 using the same tooling). And there's a constant stream of new models, the Kato and Tomix catalogues are huge. 

 

The result is excellent models that are very attractively priced. They still seem to have a thriving 'train set' segment. In a way Japan is a bit like Britain in the 70's  in that there are still lots of model shops, many department stores have model sections that give good model shops a run for their money and you see a lot of youngsters in the shops. 

 

In some ways I think it's a market which is worth studying by British manufacturers but which goes largely unnoticed by the rest of the world. The US and European stuff made by Kato is pretty much an indulgence for the owner, Tomix and the other manufacturers have no interest in overseas markets.

[Dave Hunt]

3 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Compared to today's aircraft, that might not be too far off a statement.

 

Whilst some of the systems make the stuff I flew seem antediluvian, the hands on flying isn't dissimilar; the really big  difference is in the level of sensor and weapons system automation and the virtually instantaneous information and tactical display updating. I have flown the Typhoon simulator and had no trouble with the handling; what I would need a fair amount of training on would be the sensor and weapon system management.

 

Dave 

[AndyID]

5 minutes ago, Tony_S said:

20 for £3.87 with free shipping from a well known Chinese site. But probably not as good as US made ones!

 

They are probably fine but they might take a while to arrive. I'm pretty sure none are made in the US. Certainly not the cheap ones.

[AndyID]

Ah yes! 1949. A truly excellent year 😄

[Erichill16]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

Prices for Japanese N gauge models and accessories are very attractive compared to European and North American N. Partly it's a design clever type approach to models and partly economies of scale.

 

The Japanese take a different approach to model railways in N, with less focus on detail and more impressionism. They don't bother with details which won't be seen and put detail where it makes a difference. It's basically what Hornby tried to do, but Kato and Tomix pulled it off more successfully. The philosophy seems to be to get shape and contours right (and some Japanese trains have crazy contours) and for it to look right on a layout. They don't really go for trick features either. The hobby is predominantly analogue, sound is a small niche and pantograph are possible rather than sprung.

 

Where they don't economise is mechanisms, which are superb.

 

The size of the Japanese N hobby is huge. Apparently minimum production for Kato to produce a model is 10,000 units, that's for a catalogue item, not use of tooling (such as five items of 2000 using the same tooling). And there's a constant stream of new models, the Kato and Tomix catalogues are huge. 

 

The result is excellent models that are very attractively priced. They still seem to have a thriving 'train set' segment. In a way Japan is a bit like Britain in the 70's  in that there are still lots of model shops, many department stores have model sections that give good model shops a run for their money and you see a lot of youngsters in the shops. 

 

In some ways I think it's a market which is worth studying by British manufacturers but which goes largely unnoticed by the rest of the world. The US and European stuff made by Kato is pretty much an indulgence for the owner, Tomix and the other manufacturers have no interest in overseas markets.

I have Kato DBAG class 425 and a similar Piko class 440 and there is a difference in the quality of the model, the Piko one being better. On the other hand the Piko one was quite a lot more, can’t remember exactly but like most things in life you pays your money and take your choice.

Kato do produce the Hobbytrain brand of European  models for Lemke and they are more to the European standard.

What did surprise me when I visited the Kato factory shop in Tokyo a few years ago was the shear quantity of spare available  literally off the shelf. In fact you could purchase all the bits to produce the product of your choice. I bought a friend a bag of bits which contained all the parts needed to produce a Rhatische Bahn loco which worked out quite a bit cheaper than  loco RTR. 
 

[AndyID]

3 hours ago, J. S. Bach said:

Maybe, maybe not, but they would be good enough to see if servo properties and operation are what you might want to use in a permanent setup.

 

Servos can be very susceptible to twitching and even end to end movements caused by electrical interference, and there's usually a lot of that on model railways.

 

That's one of the reasons I like to remove the electronics and just use the motor and gears.

[Tony_S]

26 minutes ago, AndyID said:

 

They are probably fine but they might take a while to arrive. I'm pretty sure none are made in the US. Certainly not the cheap ones.

 Some RJ12 expansion boards I purchased via AliExpress took about a week, tracked postage, VAT paid too.

[jamie92208]

4 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I just realised, 1948 has come and gone for TNM.

 

I wonder if it's been Nationalised?

 

BNM (British Night Mail) anyone?

1948, the year my brother was born. 

 

Jamie

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[pH]

6 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

1948, the year my brother was born. 

 

Jamie

Some of us don’t need to cite brothers.

[iL Dottore]

14 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

The Japanese take a different approach to model railways in N, with less focus on detail and more impressionism. They don't bother with details which won't be seen and put detail where it makes a difference. It's basically what Hornby tried to do, but Kato and Tomix pulled it off more successfully. The philosophy seems to be to get shape and contours right (and some Japanese trains have crazy contours) and for it to look right on a layout. They don't really go for trick features either. The hobby is predominantly analogue, sound is a small niche and pantograph are possible rather than sprung.

One of the soubriquets often hurled at overly detailed obsessive British railway modellers is “rivet counter“ and whilst I believe that you should strive for as much accuracy as possible, being overly fixated  on getting every single tiny detail right is/can be counter-productive.

 

I’ve been to a number of model railway exhibitions (including Warley) and have seen layouts which have been accurate for the period down to the type of chairs used to fix the track to the sleepers and yet they didn’t convince. 
 

I would argue that Model Railways, like theatre, are all about the suspension of disbelief.  Deep down, we know at a gut level that we are not looking at a MPD on Grot Central Railway in 1933, but if you trick the senses into thinking that you are looking at an MPD on Grot Central Railway in 1933 then the railway will come to life.

 

And this the Japanese manage to do impressively and not just with their model railways. I visited a temple in Kyoto some years ago on a private tour and was shown a room, not visited by tourists, which had some beautiful painted Shoji (Japanese paper and wood room dividers) depicting Cranes wading in a lake,  the master artist used but a few dozen strokes of paint to create the scene, detail was there none - but the cranes were as real as if you were seeing them in nature.

 

I have been lucky enough to get some Japanese N gauge (one loco being a generous gift from jjb1970)  and they certainly look “right”. Maybe if you were immersed in the minutiae of – say – Japanese Railways bogie types you might notice that something is amiss, but they certainly do the job of convincing you that they are tiny versions of the real thing.

11 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

What did surprise me when I visited the Kato factory shop in Tokyo a few years ago was the shear quantity of spare available  literally off the shelf. In fact you could purchase all the bits to produce the product of your choice.

Not only that, but the Japanese second hand model railway market is impressive.

 

Thanks to our Tokyo correspondent ( @railsquid who very generously and kindly helped me find a suitable model railway souvenir of my trip to Japan last year). I have seen what’s available secondhand in Japan. Forget the battered, clapped out, often dirty and damaged, rolling stock you see on the secondhand stalls and on the “used” sections of dealers tables at Model Railway shows in the UK - all the secondhand material I’ve seen for sale in Japan has been immaculate. I bought a Kato six car Hankyu Railway EMU boxed set and apart from some scuffing of the outer box sleeve, the whole box was as though it had just left the factory. Ian ( @railsquid) informed me that this was pretty much the course for the second hand model railway market in Japan.

 

Edited June 7 by iL Dottore
extra text

[polybear]

37 minutes ago, iL Dottore said:

One of the soubriquets often hurled at overly detailed obsessive British railway modellers is “rivet counter“ and whilst I believe that you should strive for as much accuracy as possible, being overly fixated  on giving getting every single tiny detail right is/can be counter-productive.

 

 

Also, the chances of getting one of the latest offerings out of the box without bits breaking off is often "slim" - with some already having unintended loose bits before you even attempt box removal....

[Hroth]

14 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

I just realised, 1948 has come and gone for TNM.

 

I wonder if it's been Nationalised?

 

BNM (British Night Mail) anyone?

 

More importantly, how did the London Olympics pan out? 🤔

 

[ian@stenochs]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

 

I would argue that Model Railways, like theatre, are all about the suspension of disbelief.  Deep down, we know at a gut level that we are not looking at a MPD on Grot Central Railway in 1933, but if you trick the senses into thinking that you are looking at an MPD on Grot Central Railway in 1933 then the railway will come to life.

 

My most realistic models are those I see in my minds eye.  Always when building something I visualise how realistic it will look when it’s finished, somehow it never quite turns out that way!  However being a pragmatist I know the next one will be.

 

Ian.

[Dave Hunt]

50 minutes ago, ian@stenochs said:

My most realistic models are those I see in my minds eye.  Always when building something I visualise how realistic it will look when it’s finished, somehow it never quite turns out that way!  However being a pragmatist I know the next one will be.

 

Ian.

Always bearing in mind, Ian, that you do build exquisite models.

 

Dave

[SM42]

Mrs SM42 wishes me to jetwash the patio  in preparation for visitors tomorrow. 

 

To assist she has put the washing out. 🤔

 

Andy

[Tony_S]

56 minutes ago, SM42 said:

Mrs SM42 wishes me to jetwash the patio  in preparation for visitors tomorrow. 

 

To assist she has put the washing out. 🤔

 

Andy

Well at least you will be able so see where the Patio grime has gone. 

[Willie Whizz]

Whichever way you play this, it will be a trap …

[New Haven Neil]

15 hours ago, AndyID said:

 

Servos can be very susceptible to twitching and even end to end movements caused by electrical interference, and there's usually a lot of that on model railways.

 

That's one of the reasons I like to remove the electronics and just use the motor and gears.

 

I use the 'Peco' (in reality bought in) servo system (well it was cheaper for me as I was selling them at the time!) and found the answer to the twitching as a totally separate power supply.  I use an old CB radio regulated 5A supply, after changing to that I have not had a single twitch of a servo, despite dirty track in a garage and DCC use.  I also experience no creep, using omega loops in the linkage.