The Night Mail

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[jjb1970]

Redundancy may be provided for several reasons. If the concern is a failure caused by a malfunction of the equipment itself then environmental separation isn't necessary. If the concern is external or environmental conditions causing failure then separation is essential. So if you are worried about battery depletion or an internal battery failure causing a loss of supply you can put a second battery in the same battery room. If you are worried about a fire or structural failure taking out those batteries together then you put the second battery in a different battery room which shouldn't be affected by a fire or flood in the first room. Ditto with service feeds, if you just want flexibility to take a feed out of service for maintenance without interrupting things then running two cables or pipes through the same trench, tunnel or compartment is fine, if the concern is a JCB shovel or a fire in the tunnel or compartment you need to run them separately. 

 

That's quite an important consideration at design stage as redundancy is not necessarily the answer to mitigate risk from common failure modes. You could instal 20 batteries but it doesn't really do much beyond increasing cost if all 20 are exposed to common failure modes that could take all of them out together. Sometimes after an incident the media will be full of demands to require an extra engine or whatever when analysis of the event indicates that wouldn't have done much. A classic example was the oil tanker Braer. I remember howls demanding that tankers have a spare engine, I'll interpret that as meaning a second engine (does anyone think ships would carry, or be able to install a spare engine?) with a twin screw arrangement. The problem was the fuel service tank, the point of failure was not the engine, it was sea water ingress into the service tank, so the case for redundancy and which was acted on by regulators was the service tank, not the engine.

[rockershovel]

Moving along as the disintegration of the Conservative Party continues apace, it's now being reported that Party Agents are being instructed to propose candidates acceptable to the PM. 

 

Presumably any previous incumbents thought suitable, will be notified automatically. 

 

This is an area in which the Conservatives have always been weak. Labour are always well-supplied with candidates, as the Peterborough Petition of Recall showed - they have a whole cadre of stand-bys, often employed in the NHS as Union reps and with backgrounds in local government. 

 

 

 

[jamie92208]

Many years ago when I was a bout 11 we had an extension built on our house. This involved digging out for a basement garage.  The first night of the digger went through our water supply and sewer. 

 

When the site was dug out the concrete footings were exposed along the  side of the house.  As the suck out from the brickwork they became a very useful shelf that ran the whole length of the garage. 

 

Jamie

Edited May 26 by jamie92208

[polybear]

4 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Redundancy may be provided for several reasons. If the concern is a failure caused by a malfunction of the equipment itself then environmental separation isn't necessary. If the concern is external or environmental conditions causing failure then separation is essential. So if you are worried about battery depletion or an internal battery failure causing a loss of supply you can put a second battery in the same battery room. If you are worried about a fire or structural failure taking out those batteries together then you put the second battery in a different battery room which shouldn't be affected by a fire or flood in the first room. Ditto with service feeds, if you just want flexibility to take a feed out of service for maintenance without interrupting things then running two cables or pipes through the same trench, tunnel or compartment is fine, if the concern is a JCB shovel or a fire in the tunnel or compartment you need to run them separately. 

 

That's quite an important consideration at design stage as redundancy is not necessarily the answer to mitigate risk from common failure modes. You could instal 20 batteries but it doesn't really do much beyond increasing cost if all 20 are exposed to common failure modes that could take all of them out together. Sometimes after an incident the media will be full of demands to require an extra engine or whatever when analysis of the event indicates that wouldn't have done much. A classic example was the oil tanker Braer. I remember howls demanding that tankers have a spare engine, I'll interpret that as meaning a second engine (does anyone think ships would carry, or be able to install a spare engine?) with a twin screw arrangement. The problem was the fuel service tank, the point of failure was not the engine, it was sea water ingress into the service tank, so the case for redundancy and which was acted on by regulators was the service tank, not the engine.

 

I do recall hearing that critical services in Seoul (South Korea) are arranged in a ring main formation in the event of war.

 

8 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Many years ago when I was a bout 11 we had an extension built on our house. This involved digging out for a basement garage.  The first night of the digger went through our water supply and sewer. 

 

When the site was dug out the concrete footings were exposed along the  side of the house.  As the suck out from the brickwork they became a very useful shelf that ran the whole length of the garage. 

 

Jamie

 

So part of the house footings wasn't actually sitting on anything?  Bear can see a problem there...... 

[rockershovel]

I'm reminded that just as constituents have no meaningful voice in choosing candidates as MPs, the Petition of Recall can only be issued by the Speaker. Most countries allow them to be issued by anyone sufficiently interested to do so. 

[Dave Hunt]

A friend who is a great animal lover was looking at my layout a few weeks ago and was more interested in the sheep and horses that are dotted around than in anything mechanical. Yesterday she presented me with a packet of six 7mm scale cats to add to the scene. I had no idea that such things were available. They are tiny. I wonder if she’ll find some 7mm scale mice next?

 

Dave

[jjb1970]

The vast majority of candidates and certainly almost all of those who will get a significant number of votes stand as representatives of a political party. They stand on the basis of a manifesto offered by that party and although I am speculating I am guessing most votes are for the party, not the individual candidate.

 

That's all well and good. However if the elected MP changes their mind mid-term (when they realise which way the wind is blowing) they can cross the floor and just swap sides without bothering to ask their constituents or do anything unpleasant like resign and stand for re-election. At that point we're told we don't vote for a party, we vote for an individual candidate.  I think it stinks, if MP's had any integrity or respect for voters they'd resign and let their constituents decide if they decide their party is so bad they can't continue.

[Happy Hippo]

3 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

A friend who is a great animal lover was looking at my layout a few weeks ago and was more interested in the sheep and horses that are dotted around than in anything mechanical. Yesterday she presented me with a packet of six 7mm scale cats to add to the scene. I had no idea that such things were available. They are tiny. I wonder if she’ll find some 7mm scale mice next?

 

Dave

If I get you a single 7mm scale Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and you put him at the entrance to the engineman's bothy, you could leave the cats in the packet.

[Dave Hunt]

Another schoolboy error discovered yesterday. I am preparing the site on the layout for the installation of some sheerlegs (or is it shearlegs?) and to my chagrin realised that whereas such things were mounted on hardstandings I had covered the site in ash ballast. As a result several hours were spent chiselling what has become rock hard ash ballast off the board and laying down paving slabs. Doh!

 

Dave 

[Dave Hunt]

6 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The vast majority of candidates and certainly almost all of those who will get a significant number of votes stand as representatives of a political party. They stand on the basis of a manifesto offered by that party and although I am speculating I am guessing most votes are for the party, not the individual candidate.

I must confess that I usually vote for a party rather than the individual but our local MP, who at a by-election replaced one who was forced to resign, has done such a good job since being elected that I will be voting for her as an individual rather than because of the party to which she belongs.

 

Dave

[Dave Hunt]

10 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

If I get you a single 7mm scale Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and you put him at the entrance to the engineman's bothy, you could leave the cats in the packet.

I suppose that a 7mm scale hippo would obviate the need for any other animal life at all. Mind you, I’d probably then have to build a large cake store.

 

Dave

[jjb1970]

17 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I must confess that I usually vote for a party rather than the individual but our local MP, who at a by-election replaced one who was forced to resign, has done such a good job since being elected that I will be voting for her as an individual rather than because of the party to which she belongs.

 

Dave

 

When I was growing up the MP for my city was like that. Quite a few people voted across party lines as he was considered to be an excellent constituency MP. He was a lifetime back bencher and never appeared on talking head shows or anything, but he did represent his constituency (the two things may very well have been connected). When he retired he was replaced by the usual lobby fodder selected by some opaque process and people reverted to voting on party lines.

[Danemouth]

Talking of JCBs re-engineering various cables and pipes, when I worked in Wales Gas I was having lunch with a colleague who was a distribution engineer. He was complaining about a subcontractor of ours going through a BT Fibre cable. It seems that a whole length of fibre had to be relaid at enormous cost to us - it couldn't just be joined at the break.

 

His view this was the equivalent as us laying our mains in Waterford Crystal 😁

 

This was back in the 1980s so lets hope things have now changed!

 

Dave

[Happy Hippo]

16 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I suppose that a 7mm scale hippo would obviate the need for any other animal life at all. Mind you, I’d probably then have to build a large cake store.

 

Dave

Don't bother with a cake store.

 

The hippo would be happy with a couple of  cake filled GWR Iron Minks, being run into the goods shed every day would suffice.

 

A PB could be invited over and they could have a picnic in the field by the overbridge.

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

I must confess that I usually vote for a party rather than the individual but our local MP, who at a by-election replaced one who was forced to resign, has done such a good job since being elected that I will be voting for her as an individual rather than because of the party to which she belongs.

Sherry was horrified when her ex admitted he'd voted for the current MP, who swept out an incumbent of several elections - because he knew him personally! Well, so does she - having even directed him in a Murder Mystery play in the years before he got elected. But she sees him as a drip and being a member of the wrong party, for whom some of us could never vote. Some months ago, I was standing in a shop doorway awaiting a bus in a drizzly twilight, when a woman pushed rudely past me to put something in the letterbox, as she was doing at every doorway. The MP's wife - with him lurking! She was a local councillor, but got bounced for bullying activities in a meeting and exceeding her powers.... 

[Tony_S]

6 minutes ago, Danemouth said:

This was back in the 1980s so lets hope things have now changed!

I think they may have done. My brother was involved in field (actually a road near Imperial College) trials of joining fibre optic cables. Also just after commissioning a fibre optic link in Pakistan there was an earthquake which left a cable with a 2 metre gap he had to sort out. 

[Northmoor]

47 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

When I was growing up the MP for my city was like that. Quite a few people voted across party lines as he was considered to be an excellent constituency MP. He was a lifetime back bencher and never appeared on talking head shows or anything, but he did represent his constituency (the two things may very well have been connected). When he retired he was replaced by the usual lobby fodder selected by some opaque process and people reverted to voting on party lines.

Parties don't seem to like such "independent" MPs for some reason, probably because they don't always do exactly as they're told.  Friend of the Railways Robert Adley MP was one such; when he died the LibDems overturned his colossal majority in Christchurch as it seemed to have based largely on his personal approval, not of the party he represented.

My outgoing MP is Michael Gove who seems to have to do very little for 5 year periods but got re-elected with huge majorities (after he admitted flipping his mortgage, it increased.....).  Funnily enough I've always found him an impressive bloke who is the sort of person who should be helping run the country - he's much brighter than most MPs - but don't want him as my MP.  It will be very interesting to see whether a complete unknown Conservative candidate can still hold the seat.

[rockershovel]

MPs like to produce what is known as the "Burkean principle" to justify their actions - ie, that they are Representatives not Delegates, and as such act in accordance with their "conscience and best judgement, as they see it from the information available to them". 

 

We don't have Delegates in our system. Americans make quite a lot of use of them, particularly in their Presidential elections in which specific candidates are voted for by Delegates sent for that purpose, from Primaries which decide these things. 

 

The majority of MPs operate under the "Whip" of a particular party, a name derived from the "whippers-in" who control the dogs at a hunt (which gives an indication of how parties view their back-benchers). They enjoy the general benefit of that party's prestige and canvassing power, and in return vote (under various degrees of encouragement and coercion) as the Party indicates. For a small minority, the glittering prize of Ministerial rank beckons. 

 

Parties seek election under manifestos. These tend to be more honoured in the breach than the observance (William Hague said quite explicitly in recent years that no great confidence should be placed upon them, that they were simply an artefact of the electioneering process - a euphemism for "we say whatever we think you want to hear").

 

To be fair, the electorate (mostly) know this and don't believe anything politicians say. This is all very well as long as politics are conducted in accordance with the general consensus that the peace should be kept, the dustbins emptied, the roads mended and people generally allowed to go about their affairs as they think best, within the framework of a general level of employment and prosperity. 

 

The English don't much care for politics in the generality. Their view of the matter is embodied in figures like Jim Hacker, Wolfie Smith and Alan B'stard (it's instructive that Hacker is essentially a good-hearted character who takes his position seriously, while B'stsrd is cynical and self-serving)

 

We are, I think approaching a sea-change. The current incumbents clearly are in breach of all good faith; their likely successors, as mad as a box of frogs. IMHO the markets will make short work of the next government, whatever stripe it nay be. 

 

Look at the tide in Europe. The Americans are undergoing change, in their boisterous way. Do you think we are immune? 

 

Edited May 26 by rockershovel

[Steamport Southport]

56 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Parties don't seem to like such "independent" MPs for some reason, probably because they don't always do exactly as they're told.  Friend of the Railways Robert Adley MP was one such; when he died the LibDems overturned his colossal majority in Christchurch as it seemed to have based largely on his personal approval, not of the party he represented.

My outgoing MP is Michael Gove who seems to have to do very little for 5 year periods but got re-elected with huge majorities (after he admitted flipping his mortgage, it increased.....).  Funnily enough I've always found him an impressive bloke who is the sort of person who should be helping run the country - he's much brighter than most MPs - but don't want him as my MP.  It will be very interesting to see whether a complete unknown Conservative candidate can still hold the seat.

 

Ah. That would be a by election though. The ruling party hardly ever win those as they are usually used as "protest votes" against the government. One of the reasons people shouldn't look at them for trends in voting patterns.

 

The Lib Dems usually do well in them, when it comes to the GE they don't do so well. 

 

Notice that after that by election the results are all similar to what they were before.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christchurch_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

 

[jjb1970]

I think the world is going through an inflection point in global affairs of the type that might happen once or twice in a century. The global balance of power and wealth has been shifting for several decades and as generally happens rising powers have different ideas for how things should work than the established ones. Which leads to friction and worse. I really think that the world is more dangerous than at any time in my lifetime. I was a teenager in the 80's and remember the stand-off between the US of Ronald Reagan and the USSR and the fear of nuclear war, but at that time both sides had diplomats who knew their games and despite the Spitting Image caricature Ronald Reagan was an intelligent man who found the idea of nuclear war abhorrent. I look around now at those who are meant to be our best and brightest and it's not very confidence inspiring.

[WessexEclectic]

On 19/05/2024 at 11:00, Northmoor said:

We've discussed recently on here the value in getting a few minutes away from major tourist sites to get a bit of quiet and better value catering; London is no different from any other busy and popular tourist city.  While you are still aware of traffic noise - even if it's a couple of streets away - I have found many places in London that are surprisingly quiet at weekends and sometimes during the middle of the working day.  These days walking out of Waterloo (still I think Britain's busiest station) and along The Cut at 9am on a Friday, it is much quieter than you would probably expect.

As a side note, can recommend the Waterloo Bus Garage Cafe - does exactly what it says on the sign. No sign of Del Boy or Trigger, 'though....

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, WessexEclectic said:

As a side note, can recommend the Waterloo Bus Garage Cafe - does exactly what it says on the sign. No sign of Del Boy or Trigger, 'though....

Thanks, I've walked within yards of that on probably a hundred or so occasions and didn't know of it.  Will give it a try.  I assume it was set up as a drivers' canteen and is now open to all?

Edited May 26 by Northmoor

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, WessexEclectic said:

As a side note, can recommend the Waterloo Bus Garage Cafe - does exactly what it says on the sign. No sign of Del Boy or Trigger, 'though....

I've been there while working in the area 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

I think the world is going through an inflection point in global affairs of the type that might happen once or twice in a century. The global balance of power and wealth has been shifting for several decades and as generally happens rising powers have different ideas for how things should work than the established ones. Which leads to friction and worse. I really think that the world is more dangerous than at any time in my lifetime. I was a teenager in the 80's and remember the stand-off between the US of Ronald Reagan and the USSR and the fear of nuclear war, but at that time both sides had diplomats who knew their games and despite the Spitting Image caricature Ronald Reagan was an intelligent man who found the idea of nuclear war abhorrent. I look around now at those who are meant to be our best and brightest and it's not very confidence inspiring.

Our political elites have become dangerously self-absorbed. New Labour embarked upon a self-defined journey because they longer feared being voted out, the European leftist parties (much more influential than in UK) were overcoming the shock of Soviet collapse and Germany was struggling with the huge task of reunification. 

 

Voters in the UK, exhausted by the upheavals of the previous era - the inflation and militancy of the 1960s and 1970s - wanted to believe and we now know how THAT turned out. 

 

We are now at a point where neither main party is either Left or Right, as the terms are generally understood. Mass immigration will become a defining issue, whether the existing dispensation wish it or not. Nativism is returning and the harder it is suppressed, the worse the final upheaval.